TANIC Goddess Misterious Cross
Regarding Mr. Rick Laginas's friend Zena, Historic researcher expert take of the Misterious cross of TANIC goddess.... I now have to wonder if the triangular shape of the swamp is instead of Masonic triangule shape... be now related to one of the possible shapes of the Tanic goddess. Mrs. Zena, on the War roon conference stated that one of the shapes of Tanic is triangle alike. So truly weird... and the mistery now increments exponentially. 😲
Let me start by saying I love the show and look forward to watching every week. I am hoping the mysteries of Oak Island are solved, but at the same time I worry that the show is making statements or posing hypothesis without any supporting evidence. The lead cross is in my opinion the worst example of this. I found myself shouting NO at the TV last night when Zena was trying to link the cross to the Phoenician goddess Tanic. They are trying so hard to link this cross to the Knights Templar that it is getting silly. I understand TV likely does not show us everything the Laginas know, but it seems like they are really reaching on this one. I am a believer in Occam's Razor. Its main principle is the most logical explanation, that makes the least number of assumptions, is likely the most accurate.
So, what do we really know is fact about the lead cross. It is made of lead. It was found on the shore of Smith's cove. Due to the crude nature of the cross it was likely made either a long time ago, or made more recently through a crude method of molding the lead by an unskilled crafter. Remember, someone said on the show there is no way to date a metal like the element lead. They mentioned a technique on the show, but I can't remember the details, and it could not be applied to the cross. I think it had something to do with the surface being exposed to air, but something buried could not be dated this way. This was an indication to the team that either the cross was buried for a long time, or it just wasn't very old. Everyone seemed to accept that it was buried, but again an assumption, and no proof of this was provided. It appears to have been made by pouring molten lead in a crudely made mold. The hole at the top was punched through the lead using a square punch or nail. Please add anything else that is known about the cross, and is not an assumption, unsupported link, or just a guess.
I strongly disagree that the shape of the cross is a match to the shape of the carvings in Domme and other historical religious carvings. While there are obviously many shapes similar to the cross, I believe the shape of the cross is more a product of its crude manufacturing technique that a deliberate attempt to match a shape used by the Knights Templar or the Phoenicians. The top of the cross is spread out in that round shape due to someone hammering a nail or punch through the lead to make the hole. Lead is a soft metal that gets distorted easily under pressure. This is the most likely explanation, and I think it is a reach to say the shape at the top of the cross is intentional, and meant to match a historical Templar or Phoenician image.
Rick commented that the "arms" of the cross are slightly bent forward. Zena explained that this was Tanic reaching forward to embrace or hug. This is when I yelled NO at the TV. It seems more logical, and likely, that the arms of the cross were bent forward due to being buried in the soil and rocks for nobody knows how long. Again, lead is a very soft metal. It is pretty logical to assume the cross was not molded into this bent shape, but was bent after is was lost in the sea or soil.
I think in the past Gary has unearthed evidence of a British Army presence on Oak Island in the 17th and 18th centuries. Coins and lead ingots were unearthed in one of the lots they metal detected. I think there are even historical records of the British Army camping on Oak Island. Someone correct me if I am wrong here. Isn't it more likely that the cross was crudely molded by a British soldier camping on Oak Island. Fearing for his life and seeking refuge from a Christian god he carved a crude mold in wood, poured some melted lead from the lead he was supplied to make bullets, and fashioned a crude cross to wear around his neck. He used a nail or other punch to hammer a hole in the top for a lanyard or chain. Hammering the hole resulted in the top being flattened into a circle. This soldier then lost the cross on Oak Island, or in the water nearby. I believe this is the most logical explanation and requires the least amount of assumptions and makes use of known facts about the history of Oak Island.
I am not saying that Zena's hypothesis of Tanic is wrong, but I do not see any convincing evidence that this is likely. Her hypothesis is based purely on the cross looking similar to 1300 BC shape for Tanic. Oddly enough the cross also looks like a 15th century Templar depiction of Christ on the cross. Those images are about 3000 years apart. Both can't be right, and I think both are wrong. I think the most likely explanation is a crudely made cross, made by someone unskilled in making icons or jewelry, in the 17th or 18th century. The shape of the cross is a product of the manufacturing technique used, not an intentional design.
I really like the show, and have been fascinated by Oak Island almost as long as Rick, but I think we do a disservice to the previous and current searchers if we make assumptions and reach for conclusions. I agree that hypothesis is part of the scientific method and a way to seek answers, but I don't like how the show spends so much time on unfounded or unproven theories, and often presents them as facts by educated scholars. Science, not assumptions, is the way to truly answering the mystery of Oak Island. Regardless of the hypothesis, the truth is only found by proof of the hypothesis, or proof of something else. I wish they would stop trying to push a Templar connection, and just take us down a road paved by facts and solid evidence. Stop trying to build a road to the Templars if the facts point somewhere else, or no where at this point.
I used to love the show but now it is a joke.
The shows are a repeat of a repeat. I download the show now and skip through a whole episode in about 2 mins.
I am sure the producers planted that lead cross there for them to find. It is nothing like anything they have seen and they assume so much. Each episode nothing happens og look some more wood, tonight a wooden stake I mean seriously what next? They find hinges and suddenly they are CHEST hinges not hinges off an old mining shed but CHEST hinges give me a break.
Chris, I agree with you that they are pushing the Templar connection too far. The name of the Phoenician goddess Zena mentioned is Tanit, not Tanic. Sometimes she is referred to as Tinnit, Tannou, or Tangou. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanit I also agree with Scudtz that this could have been, and most likely was, planted by the producers. Let's not forget this is a TV show. TV show producers know when the show is bombing and will do whatever they can to keep people watching. I don't think this is the first "artifact" to be planted. Several seasons of this show have had times where I thought to myself that the Lagina brothers are wasting money grasping at straws and that they are finding nothing. Then later in that season all of the sudden they find something that makes some watchers of the show cling to the "artifact" as truth. I agree with you Chris that if there are any connections at all that are truthful and have solid evidence to back it that it is from British soldiers. Anything else is just garbage the producers come up with, or plant, to keep the ratings up.
I mainly tune in to this show to watch these rich brothers waste their money. That, to me, is entertainment when rich people lose money they love so much. Marty Lagina has, according to one net worth website, $2.2 million and Rick $500,000. Another net worth website shows that Marty is worth $40 million and Rick $2 million and Rick gets paid $500,000 a year in salary for appearing on the show. That site didn't mention what Rick gets paid or what he is worth. Yet another net worth website shows Marty to be worth $100 million and Rick $2 million. I don't put a lot of stock into what net worth websites claim, but the fact is that one, or both, do have deep pockets. Conclusion, this shows producers are planting "artifacts" to keep the ratings up and the Lagina's are wasting a lot of money, which is why I'm watching. They will find nothing that changes history.
Rick, thanks for keeping me honest on the name. I knew it was Tanit, but must have been channeling a lemming when I typed my reply and blindly followed the first post. My hope is nothing is being planted or faked, and the only sin being committed by the producers is the unsupported and fantastical spin they put on every discovery. I enjoy the challenge of separating fact from fiction or speculation on the show. Needless to say I think we all agree that this show is currently being driven by speculation. I also think the fact the show is filmed over the spring, summer, and fall, then the producers take the raw footage and "edit" it into a season of episodes shown the next winter. I think it confuses the story for us viewers because we have no idea what events happened first.
What really upsets me is when they present someone as an "expert" on the show. Based on what I have seen about Ms. Zena Halpern it appears to me she has her own agenda and theories she is pushing. She is far from an unbiased source. I don't know if she is on the producers payroll so they feel obligated to seek her opinion on things, but in my opinion anything she says cannot be trusted unless backed by science or irrefutable historical fact.
I also have issues with the interpretation of the "slang" French done by Sonia Matossian during the trip to France. I will not claim to be a foreign language expert, but she clearly failed to interpret all the words in the passage on the map. Her translation was "this sketch for Mr La Rochefoucauld, a little towards the west". Per online translators this would read, "Ce croquis(sketch) pour M. La Rochefoucauld, un peu vers l'ouest" in French. To make a small correction to her translation, the word on the map is "dessin" which is drawing, not sketch. Minor correction. My big issue is her translation ignores the key French word or words on the map. She also made the mistake of translating "un petite vers" into "a little towards". Per translators "un petite vers" translates to "a small verse", and "un peu vers" translates to "a little towards". Maybe this is the slang she was referring to. The map clearly reads "un petite vers", which I believe means "a small verse", not "a little towards", or "a small drink" as was originally thought. I feel bad questioning a member of the 42nd generation of an ancient French family, but her translation seems sloppy to me. In my analysis the map likely reads, "Ce dessin pour M. Francois La Rochefoucauld, un petite vers.." which translates to "This drawing for Mr La Rochefoucauld, a small verse..." The next word on the map appears to possibly be "d'apprend", which according to translators seems to mean "learned". This is the word that seems to be left out of Sonia Matossian's translation. A key oversight. Her translation does not make sense and seems to be a misinterpretation, either accidental or intentional. The last bit of the text on the map is where I get lost and cannot find matching French words. On the map it appears to be "st r la". This may be part of the previous word, but I cannot find any comparable French text, so these characters and their translation are still a mystery to me. They are also difficult to read in the online image.
Right below the text on the map is the word "Ouest", above the drawing of "Le batteau". I do not believe the word "Ouest" is part of the text above as Sonia assumed in her translation. If you look at the entire map this word is at the top of a compass rose, and likely not part of the text written above. So, the best translation I have been able to come up with is something like "This drawing for Mr. La Rochefoucauld, a small verse learned (or taught)...", but still need analysis and translation of the remaining characters after "d'appren..". Very suspicious that someone like Ms. Matossian would miss an entire word in her translation "d'apprend", yet would include the word "Ouest", which I believe is obviously part of the compass rose and not part of the passage. Was this intentional, or merely the work of the producers trying to get us excited.
Sorry for the long post, but I really think the translation done by Sonia is missing a key part of the text... the last line above "Ouest". Hoping someone familiar with the French language can help. Also looking for a clear image of the entire map posted online. Thanks for reading.
Chris, I can't agree more on the French connection. That in my opinion is totally off course with what may have been going on at Oak Island in the past. The Templars connection and the possibility of the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail being buried on Oak Island is ludacris! I almost fall down laughing when they mention that. I too hope the producers aren't planting "artifacts" but I wouldn't put anything past Hollywood. Still, I can't help but watch this show. I love history and a good mystery. Thanks for replying with the translations from the map. I didn't check that because I totally discredit that as being part of what happened on the Island, but I did wonder at the time what the writings on the map meant. Thanks for enlightening me on that. Cheers!
I wanted to add I am still watching because I have committed to much time in the show to give up now. I also believe something will be discovered at the end of this season. Unless again we are being fooled by the producers over hyping the show for ratings. I know hard to image they would do that. wink wink.
A lady who lives on the mainland where the causeway to Oak Island begins has a blog online called, oakislandfromtheothersideofthecauseway.com. She reports on stuff going on in the area, not just on Oak Island. In Sept and Oct last year she posted reports of large equipment going onto the island. This appears to be the heavy digging equipment from Irving. Her blog posts indicate this was later than in any previous season, and the digging continued until late October when the Irving equipment began leaving the island. While the Irving equipment was leaving, the trucks with the divers and dive crew were going on the island. Her post on November 1, 2017 says, "With filming still happening on a daily basis and more island traffic than in any other year, the rumour mill is alive and well ... I am hearing things like ,"this year they have found more than they have in 200 years of exploration", (from an inside source, not mine). Mind you, finding more than they have in over 200 years wouldn't take a whole lot. Sounds like things may have changed for the better. I for one, am truly hoping the team's hard work has paid off!"
So, still holding out hope that a big discovery happened late last year, and will be shown in one of the final episodes this season, if it happened at all. My thinking is the divers and late season activity were centered around the DMT shaft. Hoping they can get through or at least get a visual on whatever broke the teeth off the caisson in the last episode. Still watching only because I hope they actually have found something significant. And really hoping it wont be just another cliff hanger for next season, if there is one.
Has no one read books from 1980s by Harvard professor Barry Fell? America B.C. was his first. Most of his research is via linguistics. He documents that Phoenicians came to east coast America and up Mississippi River. They brought Basques from Spain to do the mining work. It makes sense that they would find a Tanit cross. I cheered that his work is finally being acknowledged, even if they didn't know it. Oak Island writers should do their homework.
Note that copper from Michigan has been found in eastern Mediterranean shipwreck near Turkey. Origin of copper is determined by amount of arsenic in it... like a fingerprint.
Also there has been no comment on who planted the oak trees? They are not native.
Also the Templars might have been protecting the blood line of the holy grail, hence people who later merged with MicMac tribe in that area. There is a story of a tribe, documented by Irish priest, who used hieroglyphics to write on bark.
Helenita, you are right, you just reminded me about the Michigan copper. I heard about that roughly one year ago. I also remember now that I saw a show about the Phoenicians and their explorations on ships. Thank you for reminding me about that, and for the book info. I will be reading that book soon.
Chris, I will check out the blog you mentioned. Maybe I should open my mind a little more. I'm getting old and apparently form opinions too quickly. I too hope they find something. That is why I love history so much. You never know until they have exhausted all avenues. Thanks for the blog info.
Hey Chris and Everybody else.. New to the Forum and hope i am doing this right LOL! I to love COI but the cross thing to me is a little iffy sounding especially after what Zena had said, hope i got her name right!! I looked up a lot of images of Ancient, Christian and Mid evil Symbols and i could not find any crosses that related to Tanit. One was close but for me not close enough. Back in the 1300 , MidEvil times, they did use Lead mortuary crosses so very simular to what was found by Gary, to place on the bodies of victims who had died from the plaque. Also earlier tonight I was reading on one of the sites from OI they looked at back of the found cross and it looked as if maybe something had been there, suspicious holes or markings. Now looking up on ancient Christian cross symbols Gary's cross comes relatively close to a "Bent cross". A cross preferred by popes. I am wondering because Lead is soft if maybe there wasn't a figure of Christ on there and it fell off. The bent cross is curved and has a figure of Christ on it. KT wore crosses but none that looked like this cross. They had specific designs and meanings and this cross is not one of them. If you really looked at Ricks face when Zena told them her thoughts toward the end of their discussion, I was happy to hear him say, He wasn't saying he didn't believe her but he still wanted to get an experts opinion in that field . Well ! hope they get some positive answers to back up their findings. Just saying.