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Google blogger slams Michael Moore’s Sicko
By Stevie Smith Jul 3, 2007, 13:32 GMT
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Older Talkback
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Google taking a position of advocacy against a movie which criticizes the US healthcare system is just a mind-boggling turn of events. A substantial problem is that the critique which appeared on the blog wasn't at all well-formulated, it offered no actual examples or citations of wrongdoing on the part of Moore, it just simply jumps to the conclusion that the movie is wrong, and asks the reader to proceed from there. Ridiculous! People always accuse Michael Moore of doing the very things they do themselves in order to exaggerate their criticism of him! All of the pushback against 'Sicko' comes from US healthcare companies and rich right-wingers. The 'balanced' reports trying to dissect Sicko without actually addressing its real subject matter exaggerate 'waiting lists' and inadequacy of care and such things, trying to play on Americans' overall xenophobia - ie. 'other countries' healthcare couldn't possibly be better than the US'!' But they never offer specifics, never offer statistics, and cherry-pick stories, just like they accuse Moore of doing. Only Moore admits right up front that he does so to make a specific point, whereas those attacking him have no such courage to declare their intentions outright. Our healthcare system is terrible, there are myriad reasons why, we overspend on it and receive very little in return. Its basically a gigantic scam run by insurance companies who just milk the pubic, businesses, and medical professionals for everything they can. Their influence needs to be reduced and eventually removed, for the good of the country.
I was unable to get through this article, since it was so poorly written. It's resonance is that of a college essay and a rant. I'm wondering why it's even featured as an 'article'.
whiteshould I care about what a blogger named Laura Turner thinks about anything at all? And should I care about the Monsters and Critics website?
Rich right wingers huh? I'm not rich, but I think Michael Moore hates this country. I think a big reason our health care costs are so high is because lawyers sue Doctors for millions due to malpractice. A lot of them are bogus due to natural births. I will use exclamation points too. Can you say John Edwards!! He has made MILLIONS off of suing Doctors. I know that you being a hard core lefty might not want to hear this, but I'm not a rich right winger and apparently you are a left winger. Go ahead and move to Cuba with Moore and see how it really is there.
Matt are you old enough to enlist in the Iraq War. I will give you a bonus if you join. Just tell me where to mail the check to. Let's see if you are really are a Man of conviction's.
SiCKO lays bare the corruption in the healthcare insurance industry, as well the big pharmaceutical companies and the greed of the AMA in trying to exert a stranglehold on the healthcare industry.
Those of us providing healthcare can definitely relate to this movie, since we know the truth from working inside the system.
Through this very well made movie, which is factually based, now the public can see for once and for all, how they are being taken advantage of by a system that would rather let a patient die, than spend the money to help them.
It's all about greed and power. If you want to understand the AMA, Big Pharma, and the health insurance companies, it's simple...follow the money!.
Great film Michael! I support your efforts by buying a ticket to the movie.
Soory, but talkign about right wing and left wing goes completely off topic.
But to go as far to suggest that the rampant costs of health care are because liberla tort-lawyers are suing doctors is absoluty ignorant.
Surely, the big-lobby insurance companies, medical corporations, and drug manufacturers have nothing to do with it!!!
-The same EXACT drugs in Canada are much much cheaper than in the US...this has NOTHING to do with lawsuits.
-Profit focused HMO's focus on $$$, and put patient health after profits.
Granted, other countries aren't perfect, but the US can learn a hell of a lot from the like of Canada and Cuba and make it better. That's what America does.
This discussion shoudl be about Micheal Moore, it should be about ways to fix our broken heatlh care system where people wait for hours for a scheduled appointment, pay $300 for a few pills, and die in hospital waiting rooms.
Wake up people, the time for idealogical BS infighting is over.
@ Matt,
'I'm not rich, but I think Michael Moore hates this country.' W
Why is that, because some right-wingnut told you to think that? What do you base this opinion on, a hunch?
'I think a big reason our health care costs are so high is because lawyers sue Doctors for millions due to malpractice.'
There you go thinking again. Proof?
'Matt are you old enough to enlist in the Iraq War. I will give you a bonus if you join. Just tell me where to mail the check to. Let's see if you are really are a Man of conviction's.'
Dear RetardCowardRepBitchBoy,
Did you pass high school? How does what he said relate to enlisting in the Military. What branch did you want him to enlist in? Be specific Genius you obviousily have no idea what you are talking about. I doubt a coward like yourself that won't even give his real name in the blog reply would send him any money!
That's exactly what michael moore would say. Argue with emotion rather than logic. Please get your G.E.D. before commenting on a message board.
- Josh
(Hint: Matt made a point about litigation concerning healthcare . You can say he is wrong or make another argument to counteract his claims! There you go ! good boy ! would you like a treat now? )
'isloted cases' where issurance companies are at their worst.... right.
like 365 days a year? (I'll give them one day on leap year). Has anyone had any type of involved procedure or treatment done? It is a mess, even for normal stuff there are common billing mixups, usually in favor of insurance companies.
And when you go into the Dr.'s office, how many people are shuffling paper vs. how many people are working on direct treatment? In my expierience, it is about 50/50 .... and I think if the Dr. didn't have the army of those office people haggling with insurance companies they would likely go out of business. It is absurd.
The article was trash and the documentary (in name only) was just a mock-umentary in the same way Spinal Tap was, only Spinal Tap was actually interestingly funny.
Describing Sicko as a movie is like comparing a childs drawing pasted on a refrigerator door to a painting in a museum. Moore hasn't a clue about how to make an honest movie, never has and never will.
Isolated incidences... thats an easy statement to make from someone who has a pampered lifestyle of the Googleplex... She needs to go out in the real world and see how isolated she is.
As far as pharmaceuticals go they are insanely expensive and time consuming to develop as well as test. Phase three approval from the FDA requires pharmaceutical companies to be able to produce their product on a metric ton scale, which is not as simple as just adding the same ingredients proportionally, as well as starting human testing. This is when side effects of these drugs are first presented. These side effects have the potential to scrap the development of an entire drug. Not too long ago du pont chemical company came up with a drug that was predicted to replace chemotherapy for breast cancer. They invested on the order of hundreds of millions of dollars to get to phase three drug approval and they eventually scrapped all research on the drug because people reported suicidal thoughts while they were testing the drug. Hundreds of millions of dollars all down the drain on a drug that most likely would have worked all because they could not pass the FDA's third stage of approval. Keep in mind this is all for the development of a single drug. It takes teams of a lot of highly trained people to do all the research, work on problems involved with the scale of the synthesis of these drugs, and finally to test the drugs on people. The reason drugs are so cheap in Canada is the drug companies in America license the Canadian companies to produce the same drugs as an additional source of income to fund further research and development. So they basically skip the entire research, development and testing of the drugs they sell.
I think that we must first set priorities. First understand that drug companies are not involved in charity. They do not have altruistic motives that drive them.
Neither are doctors and other health givers driven by just the desire to serve others for free.
Progeria is a well publicize condition and those involved with its care and cure have often unjustly said drug companies are not doing anything to aid in its cure.
They are right, but look at the economics of the condition. There are probably less than 10 known cases world wide. To invest an investor's money in a quest solely designed to the disease is folly. It doesn't necessarily follow that consideration not be given the condition when there is reason to believe that something will help.
Most physicians I know haven't a clue of what it is to work eight hours per day five days a week and go home for an uninterrupted week-end. Lawyers say that their time is their fortune and rarely give freely legal advice gratis. Doctors give more medical advice for free than even they think.
Your personal health is your responsibility. Not the drug company, not the doctor or other health advisory. If you want to live, try listening to your advisor and doing as they say, not as you do.
Poor Google, you've gone corporate and so have your bloggers. Of course you will cowtow to your big money advertisers and defend them to the hilt. As far as the article written, it was hard to follow (especially with the flahing ad to the side).
I'll keep my opinions about Moore and his movies to myself, but I think it's funny when some Ann Colture idolizing online reporters try to be 'shocking' by going after Michael Moore. He's a heavy left winger, no kidding. We get it. You are a passionate righty, great. Move on. Just once, I would like a moderate view. Someone that says, sure there is corruption, but there is honesty, too. Using isolated incidents (for either side) to stir passion is fine, as long as you demonstrate the majority (good or bad).
Same argument can be used regarding terrorist suspects and torture.
I think it is terrible that if I walk into a doctor's office with insurance, he gets $20.00 from me and maybe another $15.00 from the insurance company. Yet if I walk into the same office w/o insurance, the bill is considerably higher (can be in hundreds for the same office visit).
I have a very easy solution to start fixing the health care system (at least as far as office visits are concerned)
1) If you as a doctor state your rate at $300.00 for an office visit but only get about $35.00 from an insured (combined), you should NOT be allowed a writeoff of the remaining $265.00. From what I understand, that is part of the reason the uninsured rate is normally so high is for generating write offs for the medical office. Only writeoff allowed should be your lowest billing rate less what you charged the uninsured person(no kickbacks, no end of year payoffs from the insurance comapanies, etc.) So if you normally get $35 (20 copay + 15 from insurance), you get no copay if you charge $35.00 to the uninsured. You get a $35.00 write off if you see them for free.
2) Make it illegal for an insurance company to negotiate a rate with doctors based on their uninsured bill. That forces the uninsured visit to be set artificially high (more than the market will bear in my mind).
3) The Fed and state govts should state that if you want any of the government's business, you must extend the same rate to uninsured people that you do to the fed/state govt for your services.
I think using these techniques, all you will need to do is buy major medical insurance if you are willing to pay a higher out of pocket office visit. If I had a choice between paying $600.00 a month in insurance premiums with a $20.00 copay, I would rather pay $200.00 a month for major medical and $35.00 out of pocket for an office visit.
I have a question. How many of you this blog has Health insurance? How many don't? If you don't have it, is it that you cannot afford it? My company provides me with a PPO health care plan. I pay nothing for it. 15 years ago I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. 10 years ago I had to file bankruptcy, of which ALL were medical bills. 1 year before I filed bankruptcy, CFS made it to the list of 'covered' diseases. However, instead of grandfathering me and paying the bills that had been fought over for 5 years, they now called it a pre-existing condition. My story is not rare. It's common. The state of insurance companies is laughable. I still have fully paid health coverage, but it's cheaper for me to pay cash and stick with the Dr.'s who know me. The point of Mr. Moore's film is to make Americans aware that the state of health care in our country is NOT ok. And he's right, it's awful. If you don't belive it, get sick. Or call an insurance company for health insurance and tell them you have some condition and find out the quote. LOL Why are people arguing if it's bad? It IS bad. What can we, as the people, do about it? That's what I'm thinking about these days...
Hello everyone, I just saw the movie over the weekend,
It will definitely get you thinking about moving to a county with state sponsored medicine. I currently have dual citizenship between my beloved United States and where my family tree’s roots go back to Poland, in Poland the hospitals are free for anyone. I went back for a wedding 2 years ago and hurt my arm. I was rushed to a hospital and helped there, they gave me care even though I didn’t have any id or anything on me I could have been a foreigner and they didn’t care, all the doctors saw was someone that needed help. The hospital charged me nothing. I wish we had care like this in the USA. I cannot understand why we shell out so much money every month on insurance when we know that its really a craps shoot whether they will pay your bills or not. Insurance companies are in it to make money, they all have publicly traded shares and they all have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. There CEO's get bonuses for having larger profit margins, do you assume they do this by telling folks not to smoke or eat McDonalds or wearing safety equipment while doing action sports? I don’t think so they do this by finding reasons why they should deny you when you need them the most, when you need a 250K 'experimental' surgery. It’s so sad that the strongest country on earth is ruled by fear. We are all scared of the government and we should just admit this because we never stand up ourselves. Maybe the civil war was too bloody for us to ever want to rock the boat again, maybe we are conditioned as children to fear big brother and that’s why we don’t have rally’s and demonstrations whenever we are in need. God bless America, God bless the American people but I cannot ask god to bless this corrupt system that we live in.
What the article does not tell about is that Turner had previously circulated a request to the health care industry to employ Google to run ads which would denigrate Moore and the movie Sicko. When it came out that she was trolling for business she then adopted the line that it was all her own personal idea. Yeah right! And pigs fly too!
Bottom line is that when it comes to making a fast buck Google does evil as much as it can get away with.
everyane who makes a comment needs to stop worring obout oter things like this. get a life
@ SW HS student
dude when your the one paying for insurence you will care now go back to your xbox.
smalltalker
Insurance companies do not negotiate rates with doctors. They dictate how much they will pay no matter the true cost of the procedure. Most of the time they pay out significantly less than the true cost of the procedure. Why do you thing there are no neurosurgeons in the entire southern half of Illinois. It isn't because people don't need them. It's because insurance companies only pay out $15 dollars for a procedure that really costs $30. (based on a spinal injection, which is fairly common in elderly people). The buck has to be passed in order to keep doctors where they are needed.
While the topic is complex, I wonder why would this 'article' hit the top of the news. I think there is someone out there collecting ratings on a hot topic targeting the simple minded. Opinionated blogs are hardly 'articles'. Try some supporting statistical analysis - the health care system is riding the country into poverty. And the world is running out of oil. And capitalism is based on population growth and debt, not the well being of humans. And U.S. is becoming more like another south american country - watch the president and accept injustice/lies as a step stone to corruption. So, how about reading about someone doing something constructive about it? ... Oh yeah, that does not attrack high ratings.
QUOTE:
'She also goes on to accuse Moore of portraying the medical and pharmaceutical industries as being 'money and marketing driven' while failing to focus in on 'interest in patient well-being and care' throughout the film.'
The words 'interest in patient well-being and care' cannot be placed next to the words 'Pharmaceutical Companies'. Period.
@ Ces
Your perception of simple minded people is just that = 'your perception' you dont want to talk about negitive things because you only want to accepth the positive aspects of life. your way of thinking is good because many successfull people will tell you that positivity attacts positive results nad if we could show enough positive things about this system that was masterminded by corrupt individuals 'nixon' then it will seem good. I dont want to leave this country when i retire. but unless there is massive reform i will leave this country when i turn 62 and i will have my pension deposited to a savings account. and i will move back to poland and live at there pace which is slower but ultimatly more satesfying for an old fart.
Well, that will promote some Health care/HMO advertising investment in Google, along side the searches for SICKO, and Michael Moore.
Don't ever accuse Google of not pandering to the interests of money, whether it's influencing your own opinions, or selling your 'personal' data you normally wouldn't share.
Yep, follow the money..... into Google's pocket.
Great search engine, but a censored, industry-influenced source of news and information...
You're all real brave with anonymity - and, yes, I'd say that to all your faces if we were in a room together. But we're not, so I doubt you'd all really be brave enough to insult each other in person which means I'd never get a chance to say it.
'interest in patient well-being and care,'
If the health care industry really cared about it's patients, they would not have put my father through 10+ years of band-aid patching his alcoholic disease until he finally died from it. Not once did anyone try to help my father beat his addiction. All these so-called doctors could do was give my father a bed and some librium until he was detoxed and then sent him on his way...over and over and over and over and over...
This article sucks.
'While not written on a personal blog, with no such disclaimer, Turner’s presently spot lit criticism of Sicko doesn’t help Google in terms of scrutiny of its closely formed relations with corporate advertisers or the validation of its usage of various blogs – both those that are official or personal to its staff members – in the convenient delivery of PR.' ?!?!
Learn how to write an intelligible English sentence. Then I might consider reading and thinking about what you have to say.
Michael has had a chip on his shoulder since the first time we caught him up in his room eating a whole package of Oreos. We laughed and he never forgave us. It was around that time that Michael started lying about everything. I suppose being a liar has helped his celebrity status, as todays' pop culture seems to deify liars. Anyway, all the cousins still love him, but we know from real life experience that Michael will stop at nothing to destroy any entity that he cannot control. Heaven forbid he gets pissed at all us Democrats!
Google is good. Google is clean. I trust their product. They have fought to keep their information system accessible to the average, majority of Americans. The most hateful, explotable forces such as insurance companies, medical complex, Fox network, and Forbes must attack, destroy or attempt to mutate the public trust in Google to deny the average American another source of truth.
I just received the bill for my son's dental work,250 US dollar.Tomorrow I will go and get back 236 dollars from the state insurance .I hope americans wil enjoy modern health care too very soon .How is it posible some people still find lame excuses for preventing people from benefiting from health care .
I spent some time in Mexico about 7 years ago and had to visit a hospital in Guadelajare because my wife got a kidney inlamation .I just showed them my plastic insueance card and got her immediate consultation.THe diagnosis was emailed as was the prescription .Even in Mexico the cost was no more than 20 dollars,of course paid back in Belgium without much hassles by the state insurance.
Let us hope americans will soon enjoy this kind of service too .
To Pablo R
Alcoholism is treated as a disease ,which it is ,in my country .You can spend time off from work on sick leave providing proper treatment is accepted .Meanwhile you get part of your salary,all the advantages of social health and excellent doctors doing their best to help your father .That should be a normal thing anywhere in the modern world .I can understand proper care is not allways possible in underdevelloped countries,but the USA can provide better healthcare to it's inhabitants without much of a burden.Just a tiny fraction of the money wasted on weapons would provide for it all.There is no excuse.
Michael Moore is a opotunist adn propagandist. He does nothing to solve the problem at hand. If the guns and war and President and healthcare system are so bad around here, he woudl have moved his fat a$$ out a long time ago.
Just like the rest of the Hollyweird crown, he's all talk and no action.
The problem with all of the ranting about the healthcare system is that none of you have the forsight too suggest any real solutions. The only thing you, and Moore, accomplish is hippy 'stick it to the man' sydrome. The problem with the healthcare system is not going to be fixed by making it public. It would actually create much worse problems whihc include overcrowding in state run offices and hospitals, very long waits, abuses of the system, slowing of technigolical advancement, extrmeely high taxes to supplament costs.($5.00 / gallon of gas in Europe) Ask someone you know is Canada or Europe if they enjoy the quality of healthcare they receive, 80% will tell you no.
You would no longer have state of the art facilities because they are governed by the state and legislator. Your not affecting 'the man' because they are still selling to the government. Drug companies have only 10 years to make a profit on the billions of research that go into new drugs. If they can't make that profit, there will be no new drugs. There is a much larger picture that you take the time or energy to see. That is why Moores films are useless, he is a college dropout and doesn't have the mental ability to look at the whole picture.
So this blogger thinks the health care system is not about money and is about our well being?
HaHaHaHaHa HaHaHa
@ Forsight
5$ per gallon is nothing, i would pay 10$ p/gal for an alternative source of fuel so as to starve the oil rich countrys like iran. imo - money well spent...
I think you shouldent leave coments on here without watching the movie...
Try having a child with a medical problem.I quit my job to take care of him because Cigna Health care would not pay for physical therapy. They also would not pay for necessary testing to diagnose eating problems. They basically said your child can starve.I have had to beg doctors to take my son on as a case because they don't want to deal with my insurance company. The reason being; all the games they play on paying the doctor. Denials, because they claim a name is spelled wrong on , or the say they never received a claim. Any petty excuse.Would you want to do a job you don't get paid for? The insurance company also dictates what medicine my child takes.Do you think the insurance company is influenced by pharmaceutical company's giving a discount on that drug? You bet.In essence they tell doctors what test they can and cannot run. What drugs to prescribe and what's not covered.Hey all this with out a college degree in medicine. That is why most doctors can't except my son as a patient in good conscience.In quiting my job I am no longer covered by insurance.I haven't had a check up in ten years since my son was diagnosed with autism.I live in Va. the worst state in the country as far as government help with anything.My son is on a waiting list for help he's been on it since the age of eight. The estimated age for him to receive help is seventeen a year before he is an adult. So again another avenue with a dead end. Is there a problem with our health care system? In focusing on a film like sicko and critiquing the director only, and his view of the content does a lot of damage to the real issue at hand. The failing health care system in America. I would like to see Morgan Spurlock take the challenge and make a documentary about this. As far as the person that wrote the article she can come and visit me if she wants a lesson on health care.
s. george's post says it all. The system is broken. If you personally have not experienced the failure of the American health care system yet, consider yourself lucky. But if you ever get laid off, get sick with a disease you're statistically too young to have, or become self-employed, you will see the ugly truth firsthand.
I saw the movie Sicko, and I'm really not all that shocked at all. My mother came down with a very bad illness and she was in a coma for about a month. The doctors wanted to pull the plug, because we were uninsured at the time. We did not let that happen. She is with us today but we had to claim bankruptcy and we lost our house. Its good to know that not only does the medical industry not want to spend money on its patients, it also wants to suck their families dry with quarter-of-a-million dollar costs. Fair? You be the judge.
I can speak for 1st hand experience what Moore says happens is true. My Wife a tri athlete, live long non smoker age 40 was hoarse for a month she went to the doc a 'bug”. He when referred her to an Ear nose and throat guy. 2 months for appt. Stomach reflux 1-month treatment 3 months have passed. She goes back to the ENT he orders a cat scan - Lung Ca. They insurance company does not have any oncologists ' on the plan' that were closer that 500 miles. Lots of back and forth bickering with insurance company. They send her finally to one, 6 months have passed. She tells her she is going to die and to 'smell the tulips'. At this point she has a 104 temp and she is 'puzzled'. I say hell with it and infectious disease docs is in the doc park and sit in the office and beg for him to see her and pay in cash. She has an anaerobic infection in her upper lobe. She stays in the hospital 3 days (not approved first) I pay. The 'oncologist' was not board certified (I checked) the Insurance company claimed she was (A lie) and asked the doc and the insurance company to provide proof. She was not certified. She had started training in another country and never even finished more than 6 months into the residency. I went to the state and complained about the insurance company. They provided a real board certified doc that gave her Chemo and she had surgery. But this was almost a year later cancer was all over and she died at month 14. I owed over 600,000 dollars for 'not approved' treatment (PET Scans (experimental) drugs (not approved for Lung Ca) I was left with 3 kids in elementary school and a dead wife and had to refi the house to pay the bill. 6 years later I develop neuro condition and have Seizures, Parkinson symptoms and I go on disability. Same old 'no need for scan ' stuff. Won’t let me see a neurologist only my primary that thinks it maybe be 'depression'. After a year of now on long term disability it is terminated due to it is a Psychological conditions. I had been paying Cobra (I lost my job of course then I could not come back) and both a out of pocket Neurologist (Yes something is wrong, but we need to do tests to find out what (denied as I am depressed) Psychiatrist said I may have some minor depression, but the symptoms did not fit, and I was a neurological case for sure. Now 2 years later, I have had to file bankruptcy last year, I am on SSI disability, I have a Neurological disease called Picks and Parkinson’s and I am not depressed. But I am broke, destroyed and have less than 5 years to live I am told. She exscuse grammar errors, MY brain is not too good these days. By the way, my wife had an MS degree and I have 2 BS degrees as well as an MBA, and we were living the dream making lots of money, and all the toys. Now I go to the food bank, live in a small apt and ride the bus ( I cant drive)
to = Moore is Right
oh my lord you have goan through hell. sorry to hear about your loss and your illness. god works in mysteriouse ways and in your case it sounds like a mistake not a mystery. you will be in my prayers.
Speling is wunderfool
You capatilists kill me. You completley miss the point. would you have to make sacrafice? yes...why again would the health care system go down if we made it public. because you say it would? and anyways WE are the ones curbing new medicines..EG.. stem cells. So we are not going to be on top for too much longer. i would love to pay more taxes to help my fellow country men out and i am by no means rich. When ever there is a will to do something it gets done. just because something is run by the government doesnt mean it is going to be in shambles. eg.. schools in the burbs vs schools in the city. which one has the money and will and which one doesnt. which one works and which one doesnt. This country already has enough money it just has its priority's backwards. If one of your neiborhood buddys was going to have to lose his two front teeth because he couldnt afford to pay 3500 dollars out of his pocket to fix it.. would you help or would you rather watch your bank account grow? i have no use for money in a bank and would rather see a pier have a chance of life. i am no christian either.. go figure.... oh and to the guy with problably the worst life i have ever heard.. my advice... screw waiting 5 years to die. get on a small airplane fly as high as you can and jump with no shute...man that would be fun.
Bwhahhaha Google can do w/e they want haha I love it
Pity 'kill yourself' has obviously had such a bad life that he/she is so bitter and hateful towards fellow humans. To state it as simply as possible: when it costs pennies or less to produce a single pill, package it, then pay the workers for their time, why is that pill being sold to the public for $4.00 each? When a doctor gets $300.00 for 15 minutes of his/her time, or a nurse gets $150.00 for drawing a vial of your blood, why are they saying they're not making enough money? And when a child is getting ready to die because his abscessed tooth is spreading the infection into his brain (happened just recently-the child is now dead), why are so many bitter people unwilling to let the government cap these outrageous costs? I'm not saying that the government needs to be in control of our healthcare, on the contrary, but they DO need to stop this inhuman price gouging and greed that's leaving poor/laid off from work/elderly/etc in fear for their lives.
Bad grammar.
It's amazing to read all of the whining about who didn't do this for you or who didn't pay to have this or that done for you. You wonder how our predecesors ever survived without all of handouts of the current 'it's all about me' world we live in. I went to school, studied hard, went to college (worked during the day, school at night - it took 10 years but I paid for it myself) received my degree, got a job, worked hard, got promoted, kept working hard etc... You get the picture. I'm just an average God fearing middle class individual with a wife, daughter and a dog. I don't look for any handouts in life and I sure as $%@&! don't expect the govenment to provide for me. I save 30 cents of every dollar I make and don't live beyond my means. Left or Right, most are self centered politicians with a false since of worth. Having been forced to work with lobbyists, senators and congressman on occasion, it really opened my eyes to the 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' world they live in up there. It's pure politics, nothing more, nothing less. Whatever it takes to keep their jobs. So, with that in mind, quit whining! Get a job; work hard; treat others with respect; DON'T live above your means; save for your own retirement; quit depending on others to solve your problems. (They are more than likely problems you created yourself anyway) The generation living in the 'old days', as they are called, did have a few good things going for them. They made their own money, had their own babies, raised their own kids, saved for their own retirement and certainly didn't whine like today's generation. Move to Mexico, Poland, Canada or wherever you think it's better. Please!
After reading this 'blog' I am wondering where this girl has been keeping her head lately. Of course, from the tone and syntax of this piece, it is evident that it was written by a high school student (or junior college drop-out). It has all the earmarks of a 'parrot piece', as if she is reflecting something her (Moore-hating) parents told her, or something she researched through an industry propaganda site. So, on one hand, I'd like to just pat her on the head and say 'nice try, little girl': but on the other, I think that It is an adult's responsibility to tutor youth and guide them toward the acquisition of knowledge and experience. This girl is apparently young and she probably has had little experience dealing with the health industry from the point of view of a consumer.
With reguard to Michael Moore's piece (Sicko), the relevant issue is not at all as she supposes. Whether one approves of Moore's work or opinions is not the matter in question. One issue he has brought forth is that our nation has allowed profit and the interests of the health industry to be put ahead of the health and well-being of its citizens.
Anyone who has had to deal with insurers who refuse to issue authorizations or to cover services the insured need and are entitled to, or anyone who has had a doctor who changes patient prescriptions according to which drug manufacturer's rep took him out to lunch this week, knows where the true focus lies. Those 'stories' are not the singular occurrences you've been misled to believe, honey. They're happening every day to people all over this country. Don't you see the irony in the fact everyone in the 'health industry' seems to be raking in profits hand over fist, yet our coverage (for those of us lucky enough to have it), is constantly under the threat of downward revision? Yet, 21 year old people with NO MEDICAL DEGREE, make 6-figure incomes as Pharmaceutical Reps; hawking these drugs to doctors and offering them incentives to prescribe them. That doesn't sound like the patient's well-being comes first to me! New = more expensive, but not necessairily more effective. At the risk of being trite, i'm saying that we should put the 'care' back in Healthcare! Without it., healthcare is just another scam
And Lauren, it was a good effort. Next time, you might try to identify the facts about a situation before you spout off other people's ideas or opinions in your 'blog'.
I was unable to decode the first paragraph, since it is entirely one sentence. Get literate.
MMs movie is right-on
Hey get a life...my advice would be to quit fearing the god that isnt there so you can remove yourself from the bubble you live in and move youself into the real world. my city has a 50 percent droppout rate. do you think that is a problem those kids created by themselves, or do you think it is from the lack of motivation and moral value going into it after the 'great white flight' to the outskirts? Would you hire a droppout that couldnt read to blow all of those politicians with you? Maybe if he was toothless huh! im glad you worked hard your entire life. You obviously are stuck on the fact that everybody is as motivated as you. Would have been as easy if you HAD to take care of your mother too because she was selling herself for crack? It would seriosly bother you to know that somebody is getting free health care because they only make 6 dollars an hour, making you capitalists fat with greed. It wouldnt even effect you, and you would still rant about it. You all sound like a bunch of greedy biggots. And i will not move either. this is my country, im not leaving and if and when the time comes i will take great pleasure in taking you fat pigs out.... Oh Yeah i havnt had a bad life either. i was educated by the great catholic regime too. Put myself threw college and the only bitterness i feel is watching my nieborhood crumble as the blind bottle suckers in the burbs talk about how easy life is when the only pain they felt as a wee little tike was not getting the xmas present they wanted.
Health care in this country is definitely bad. Try being in the middle of a heart attack and driving yourself to the hospital because you can't afford to pay for the ambulance, or praying that you will be admitted because you have no insurance to pay for it. Truth is, many people who have routine health problems go to the emergency room because if you go there, they have to treat you. If even a basic minimum of care could be offered through clinics and other such places, people wouldn't be jamming up ERs to get help.
I went in to the welfare office to apply for Medi-Cal when I was living in L.A. and was told I wasn't 'disabled' to warrant it. And yet I had been having angina attacks over and over, and could barely walk from one room to another without gasping for breath and feeling tremendous pain in my chest.
There are many excellent doctors in this country, and a lot of them are also fine human beings who care about their patients and anyone else who needs help. But there are a significant percentage of medical professionals who have gone into medicine to become rich. And there are still others who graduated from medical school at the bottom of the class who you wouldn't want to treat your pet, nevermind yourself. What are the chances that some of those seeking to be rich are from the bottom of the class as well? Even if it's .01%, that still makes a LOT of them out there, trying to make money and making enough mistakes to warrant taking their licenses away from them before they hurt someone really, really bad.
Jiminy Christmas, who decided Michael Moore was still a relevant filmmaker? Or has propoganda officially become a genre?
pay scales for canadian post MDs average less than half of USA MDs...
cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Statistics/31-pay_scale s.pdf
US scales..
payscale.com/research/US/People_with_Doctor_of_Medicine_(MD)_Degrees/Sa lary
If you were doctor, where would you work?? In canada and other countries with 'free' medical care (tax rates over 60%, doctors' saleries are government controlled.
'Nuff said
Hi, i dont have insurance cause i dont make enfff to b able to pay rent etc and put in something lke 400$ w 2000$ deductible - i make 9$ an hour selling bread at a well known bakery in sf and my othr job is line cook at 10.5$ (bth prttime - i think that most pple who dont believe 'sicko' are the ones who work at wages like at 25$$ or are in unions. I suppose because i write english so wll i will be seen as someone who could do better - well guess what - i pay on a sliding scale and i do pay. I just went to dentist and paid 90$ cash for a cap to b reglued or whatever its called. I have caps from when a car hit me. I nver go to doctors or anything- unless desparte which means that i dont go even when knee was swollen up - that was the pits - i could not go down the stairs and could not walk - on second day i tighted a band round the knee area and took a painkiller that a friend had from a past injury.
I am really careful in that i dont spend any money on nonessentials as there is no real future for pple like me to retire - we are not illegals - so we have cannot lie on our irs statements when we get jobs - we cannot put down 7 dependents - i help the guys fill out the forms who dont read or speak english with their papers - (i am hspanic myself) - which means that we (legals) pay a real tax - and dont get benefits for working.
Hey Kill Yourself! I do live in a bubble. The bubble of reality! It's always some elses fault isn't it. It's funny how you hear about the successful people who's parents left them in the cold, were drug addicts etc... but they somehow found a way to make something out of themselves. You bleeding heart liberals always want to play the blame game and then call us capitalists unfair. Boo Hoo. I'm not particuarly motivated, I just know that if I want something in this life, I have to go out and get it myself. I worked three jobs (for less than 6 dollars an hour when I was going to college); anything to just get by. The difference is that I'm not looking for a free ride like you. I didn't put the needle in Mom's arm and force her to sell herself to pay for her addiction. I didn't get the girl pregnant and leave her to be raised by a single mother so the kids could drop out of school. These people made concious decisions to live the way they did. Sure life sucks sometimes for everyone and life's not easy. (At least not for this capitalist, greedy biggot - still working 2 jobs to make sure my daughter has it better life than I did) You just like to call everyone names to make yourself feel better. I'm proud to believe that I'm not a decendent of the ape. Obviously you disagree. That's the beauty of this country. Your neighborhood suffers because people like you sit around and complain about everyone else instead of getting the parents & leaders in your community to start looking at themselves and changing the way they act. As far as Christmas goes, I got one present under the tree and it wasn't and Xbox 360. If you are toothless, I'm sorry. Again, it's not my fault. Have a nice life!
As someone who has had to jump through hoops with their healthcare to get treatment for something as simple as tendonitis, never mind anything having to do with my spondolythesis is always a major endeavor, requiring a ringmaster and an entire circus, our medical/healthcare system is not working. From formularies that prevent you from getting your prescriptions at a reasonable cost, to the difficulty of finding a good doctor that takes your insurance and that you can get in to see, it's obivious it's time for the system to be overhauled.
Think about your experiences with seeing your doctor - has anyone been to an emergency room lately? I have, with my cousin who broke her foot and we waited for EIGHT HOURS to be seen, from midnight until the next morning. While we sat there, a girl was brought in who overdosed and she was set in a wheelchair and waited there as well. I watched her with her family, as a nurse came by and checked her every half hour... it was insane. The place was empty beyond us, no one else came in that night.
You can't deny that the price of medication is outrageous, and it's not from doctors being sued, it's from pharmacuticals making millions of dollars off them.
I love my country, but there are things that need to be fixed, and this is one of them - you can't wear blinders and act like everything's freaking fine when it's not. I haven't even seen the stupid movie yet, and at best, Michael Moore annoys me, but I'll go see this one.
I have not a clue what Maya just said, but I think I understand. You CAN find affordable places to go for healthcare, but you don't get 'decent' care, if you get care at all. Doesn't anybody understand what Michael Moore is trying to say? IT'S OVERPRICED! Even a poor man with down's syndrome, or a poor kid because mommy and daddy couldn't put him through college, (have you seen tuition lately? No way a kid can do it alone anymore)could afford healthcare if it was properly priced. Not everybody can be a well to do college graduate, some just don't have the means, and it's only because of the greed involved in medicine. And as for the jibbering idiot who 'wrote' that stupid piece, I could barely understand the first paragraph! Are you sure she speaks english? What a moronic child she made herself out to be. I hope college admissions doesn't read it, (if her parents have college funds) Because if I were on the admissions board, I'd turn her down--too stupid for my school.
I'm sorry Nikki. Been there with my mom who had apparently had a stroke-turned out to be a bad reaction to her heart medication. It took from 6:00 pm until 2?30 am. It's ridiculous the amount of profits these people are making. Capitalism is one thing, evil greed at the expense of innocent people is another.
I have a question: Why has this particular string drawn so many angry, hateful people?
what happened to do no evil? Or maybe Google just doesn't want to lose health advertising money. I hope I am wrong, I used to like Google.
The problems in our health care system are not understood by many Americans, especially those who rarely travel and don't understand the system in the EU and Canada.
WHO rates us 38th for many reasons, not the least of which are our health care premiums. Case in point--i'm a retired teacher. Health insurance for my family of 3 is $1500 a month in a group plan. My pension is $2200 a month. Millions are in the same situation. It's sad but true that it's far cheaper for me to carry an extremely high deductible major medical plan and buy tickets to Europe for our health exams and treatment.
Cost of 'socialized' medicine and the 'fact' that we pay lower taxes than other countries is often expressed. Add up all our income taxes, including state and SS taxes, plus your health care premiums, which Europeans don't pay, and then compare to European and Canadian taxes. My total income taxes, including health insurance premiums are 15% higher than the average European country with 'socialized' medicine.
Interestingly, our president, congress and military have socialized medicine and have never mentioned giving it up for the greatly inferior system the rest of us have.
Also, we have 'socialized' education, police, FBI, government, highway departments, libraries, customs, etc. Why? Obviously, because they're cheaper and more efficient. Perhaps health care and nursing home care should also be functioning at their level.
Anything that Michael Moore takes a position on is suspect! I treat his positions the same as I treat the white supremacy movement. Outlandish, crazy, and totally without foundation!
Michael Moore has made millions on the blood and suffering of innocent victims. He further dishonors those victims by his gross distortion of the truth. It is a shame some people actually believe what he sells, and that he profits so at others expense.
Uncontrolled capitalism leads to feudalism. History proves repeatedly that the best economies have social regulation in the mix. The health care industry is one of several industries that the consumer has no standing with. When the media and the politicians are being influenced, controlled, or bought by the same corporate interests, it is too powerful a source of disinformation for the average feeble minded, flag waving American to contend with. When someone such as Michael Moore points out the fiction in a coordinated political and media story, they are labeled by that coordinated effort of politicians, media and advertising interests, as 'radical, leftist, etc.'. You will see very little refutation of facts, but plently of unsubstantiated character assasination (a sure fire indication of the presence of painful truth). Michael Moore is not beyond criticism and one should view all information with some degree of skepticism, however, Moore's actions can be seen as a good deal more patriotic than standing up for 'Scooter' Libby and Haliburton (which showed it's patriotism by ripping off billions from taxpayers and moving to Dubai). After all, Michael Moore is attempting to stand up for the average American worker, while the current administration is attempting to stand up for white collar criminals (the real terrorists). Do we really need Michael Moore to tell us that we are being ripped off by the healthcare industry? Is anyone seriously not experiencing that reality? To challenge the system, yes even our carefully controlled perceptions of Cuba, is not anti American, it is anti Corporate, and Americans better start learning the difference if they want their kids not to become the next illegal immigrants to Canada within the next 50 years.
Matt, you need to stop parrotting the anti-tort lobby line and do a little research on the statistics on medical malpractice lawsuits. The fact is that they constitute a tiny (less than 5 percent) percentage of all litigation, which itself constitutes a tiny percentage of all law practice. The vast majority of cases are resolved without anyone going to court or filing suit. Moreover, even in states like Virginia, which has very strict and extremely unfair caps on med-mal payouts - even in cases of really egregious negligence resulting in lifelong disability costing millions the most a litigant can recover is $1 million - the malpractice insurance companies continually raise their rates and complain that they have to because of malpractice cases; however, the facts do not bear them out. The fact is that the rate of med-mal lawsuits has remained pretty close to the same per capita since the early 70s. In addition, many states (such as Virginia) have enacted 'bad baby' legislation, which means that rather than have a limitless payout for something like cerebral palsy through a lawsuit the aggrieved parents must settle for an administrative determination and payout through a special state fund set up for such cases by the legislature. Notwithstanding all these actions and more, charges for malpractice coverage continue to escalate exponentially. During the 80s the med-mal firms claimed it was the rise in lawsuits which raised their rates. It was instead their heavy and irresponsible investment in junk bonds. When the S&L crisis hit they lost all their investments - and blamed it on the lawyers. That worked for them, so from then on everything became the fault of the lawyers.
Quit bickering and just realize that America has a problem that it needs to fix.
Well said BK. Well Said. and to the bigot with no life who said i didnt get involved in my community? I WAS one of those drug addicts. at 20 i was sticking needles in my arm. I am a strong individual and made it threw and now i own a half a million $ a year buisiness with no overhead. That 30 percent you put in your bank account i give to the locals. Hmmmm.... that means i have givin away more in the last year than you will most likely ever give away, you nice christian. I understand convincing people to come over to my side is a lost cause because selfishness plauges this country. But to just assume that people are looking for handouts is absurd. 99% percent of my fellow street kids are either dead or in jail. More than half of them would have been avoided if society would have shown some compassion. And to think that it is easier for you pigs to laugh(eg..boo hoo) at that than help is really christian like ay? As hard as i have worked, i still consider myself lucky. No need to call me a hypocrite either for owning my own buiseness. I make my money because that is what the market is. I would gladly cut it in half if the suits across the country did so to give people on the low end a health meter thats not riding on empty. I drive a 92 nissan with 192K miles because i dont need those false idols to impress my friends. And anyways, its not my fault you work 2 jobs to make sure your little whore has a spoiled life. Didnt you say you have a degree? maybe someone needs to give you a hand out so u will calm down and realize life DOESNT have to be so hard....peace
FACTS: Two patients needing operation (cancer)
Patient #1 We need $50.000 in advance. But this will wipe out my life savings as well as I will need to make a loan on my home. I worked all my life and I am retired. I am very sorry but we must be paid.
Patient # 2 We need $50.000 in advance. But I have nothing. No home and no money. I am on welfare. I also get food stamps and subsidized housing. Plus a little disability for a twitch in my left big toe. No problem amigo you are then covered we will admit you. Ah, gracias God bless America...
The richest nation in the world is 24th in the WHO list of quality of health care, 23 million have no health insurance while politicians get taxpayer funded (socialised) healthcare. Surely part of living in a society is a responsibility to others.
This sense of community still exists in small communities, so when did the 'let them eat cake' mantra become a substitute for debate for the rest of us?
No one should be bankrupt to save a loved one, no one. The bickering and vitriol displayed in this string serves no constructive purpose, rather it displays a shameful abrogation of responsibility.
A child dies from a tooth ache and you are not outraged?
When a nation that makes (some of) us rich does so at the expense of the most vulnerable it is the nation that is sick.
Christopher Murray, M.D., Ph.D., Director of WHO's Global Programme on Evidence for Health Policy. 'Basically, you die earlier and spend more time disabled if you’re an American rather than a member of most other advanced countries.'
FACTS: Two patients needing operation (cancer)
Patient #1 We need $50.000 in advance. But this will wipe out my life savings as well as I will need to make a loan on my home. I worked all my life and I am retired. I am very sorry but we must be paid.
Patient # 2 We need $50.000 in advance. But I have nothing. No home and no money. I am on welfare. I also get food stamps and subsidized housing. Plus a little disability for a twitch in my left big toe. No problem amigo you are then covered we will admit you. Ah, gracias God bless America...
It's absolutely amazing that Michael Moore makes this films with isolated incidents and passes them off as being the norm. Of course we have major problems with our health care providers. But Moore ignores the fact that people in Cuba, France, etc., wait months for certain tests and those that can afford it come to the US for their health care. Making Cuba look like an advanced nation with advanced technology is an absolute joke. Who doesn't see through this charade and realize that the portion filmed in Sicko was completely set up and nowhere near what the average Cuban citizen endures. And I know people in Canada who cross the border (Michigan, especially) to get MRIs and other tests that require months of waiting in Canada. Again, we have to do something to insure more Americans, Blue Cross charging $500 and more per month for health care is a crime. But like another post noted, suing doctors for malpractice has gotten so commonplace it makes it tough on the rest of us. But socialized medicine is NOT the answer, never will be. In Germany, single people have to pay over 50% of their income for taxes. Affordable health care is the answer (not free). Moore is great in all his movies in showing specific cases to fit his agenda, ignoring those that disagree with his opinions. A rich, rich guy who supposedly wants to help the 'common person'. He claims to own no stock where it's been proven he owns tons of stock and profits as a result. I wouldn't trust Moore as far as I could throw him, fat man or not. This guy's to the left of Lenin.
Healthcare is a mess. And dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. But it's a fantasy to think that the government can do a better job than private industry. Experience has shown again and again that the government is not good at administering large social programs. (i.e. welfare, social security)
The reason that healthcare is so expensive is simply that it costs a lot to provide healthcare. I know, it sounds simple, but it's true. Sure insurance companies want to make a profit, but no more so than anyone else. And free market competition helps to insure that prices are kept at a practical mimimum.
The fact is, it takes a lot of money to develop new drugs, new technologies, etc. We have more treatment options available today than ever before, but many of these treatments require very expensive tools, pricey drugs, and highly trained doctors. The successful treatment rate for cancer is much higher than 20 years ago. We now have drugs available to treat AIDS, but a TON of money was spent to develop those drugs. Healthcare simply companies do what every other company does in a free market system. They make you pay the cost, plus a little extra for profit.
What makes healthcare special is the unlimited demand. In any other business, the average consumer doesn't typically buy the latest, most expensive product. They wait until it gets cheaper. But in healthcare this isn't always an option. You have to get the $100,000 treatment, even if you can't afford it.
The reason that drugs cost more in America is because the drug companies know that Americans can afford to spend more. The drug companies could charge less in America, but then they'd have to increase the charge in other countries to make up the difference. The average cost to develop a new drug is somewhere around $800 million. No one would invest in costly research if they weren't allowed to profit from it.
In Africa, some AIDS treatment drugs are freely donated by drug companies. The drug companies could ask them pay for the cost of research and production. But they know most Africans can't afford the cost of the drug. So they give itm away for free, making up the cost by charging more in America.
Where is all the money being spent to develop the latest drugs and technologies? I'll give you a hint. It's not in Cuba.
People need to start looking at the real problem, instead of always trying to find someone to blame.
I am just sick-o of coming to Google News and seeing Michael Moore still listed under there as news for Sicko. Could he and all the articles about him just go away!! Please.
I think our health care is perfect and needs no change.
I pay 13% of my income on insurance + $50 copay and about 22% income tax. There is also sales tax, value added taxes, communication taxes, value added taxes, fuel tax, etc. so I'm about at 50% of my income goes to taxes.
Well, maybe a few little changes, like being able to choose a doctor or receive house calls if I'm infirmed as they have in Germany. If I really want that I should just earn more money, for I only make $40k
Kill all the HBO's, provide HEALTH CARE FOR OLD PEOPLE 60 THAT HAVE AN INCOME OF 25000 OF LESS. NO PAYMENT OF DRUGS FOR THESE FOLKS. THE GOV. MUST NEGOTIATE WITH DRUG COMPANIES OR BUY THEM IN CANADA.
GET RID OF THE VETERAN'S ADMIN. LET THE VET GO TO PRIVATE HOSPITALS. FOR OPERATIONS OF EXTREME COST FLY THE PATIENTS TO INDIA OR THALIAND WHERE THE COST AND QUALITY FAR EXCEED THE US.
LIMIT THE PAYMENT TO HOSPITALS AND THAT IS ALL THEY GET NO MORE.
KILL THE HBO'S THEY ARE DESTROYING THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE US.
I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT WHO WILL LISTEN.
I FOUND SOME DISTRUBING THINGS IN THE MOVIE SICKO HOWEVER, THE COST FOR THESE SYSTEM WERE NEVER DISCUSSED. I THINK IT IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.
BUT BECAUSE OUR GOVERMENT IS CORRUPT FROM THE LOWLY LOCALS TO THE HIGHEST SCHMUCKS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS. THERE WILL NEVER BE A SOLUTION.
Whats really funy Is that we can be charge up to $3.50 for a asprin in the hospital but you can get a .99 cent burger that will clog your arteries.
I am so sick of The RightWing saying If you dont like this country then get out!
I SUPPORT THE TROOPS BUT WHEN THEY SAY YOUR NOT PATRIOTICS BEACAUSE YOU DONT SUPPORT THIS WAR?
There saying get out because they dont want to be exposed for all the dirty dealings under the table.
WAKEUP AMERICA!!
THE CARLYLE GROUP BUYS MANOR NURSING HOMES NATION WIDE FOR 6.8 BILLION WITH THE REPULICANS IN THIER POCKET AND THE FDA AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES IN THIER POCKET! (MMMM): I WONDER WHO WILL BE MAKING PROFIT FROM THIS?
NOT THE ELDERLY ESCPECIALLY WITH THE BABY BOOMERS REACHING RETIREMENT.
ITS NOT ABOUT MICHAEL MOORE ITS ABOUT HEALTH CARE ATTACKING THE MESSENGER IS NOT THE ANSWER THEY ARE LOTS PORK BARRELS AND BIG POCKETS BEING FILLED WITH CASH LETTING PEOPLE JUST DIE AND GETTING REWARDED AND GIVEN BONUSES.
I LOVE MY COUNTRY AMERICA BUT YOU HAVE TO WONDER 8 YEARS OF BUSH HAS DONE WHAT?
SCARE TACTICS TERROR ALERTS AND WHERE IS OSAMA?
ONE WORD (BANKROLL)
Interestingly, the ratio of people here posting (usually) emotional diatribes about how evil a 'propagandist' Michael Moore is to supporters is about the same ratio as people who still support the current administration to the rest of the country that's awakened to what a raw deal we've been dealt - about 20%. I guess once you drink enough neo-con kool-aid you can't see the light, except to scurry from it like a six-legged pest.
I have to laugh when I read one of these mindless tributes to wing-nuttery. Most of the posters of anti-Moore invective show from their comments that they really have no idea what the documentary 'Sicko' is about, they've just been taught to hate him from the years of right-wing talking points they've assimilated & spew venom-de-jour at him. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - his films are propaganda'. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - he hates America'. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - he makes money'. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - he's fat'! etc...
Tell ya' what. All you chuckleheads who are claiming the current healthcare system isn't broken and that Michael Moore is the spawn of Satan for even suggesting such, when the inevitable change in our healthcare system occurs (and it will, just a matter of time), please feel free to opt out and pay out your ass for the same care the rest of us are getting for a reasonable price.
Will that happen? Hell no. I for one will enjoy watching the wingnuts sheepishly eating their crow pie.
I'm an Australian who has lived in Germany and now the Netherlands, and I've been able to compare the various health coverages available in each of these countries.
In Australia, we have Medicare to which everyone belongs, with optional private insurances which can cover extras (dental etc) or private hospitals. It works quite well, and the difference between public and private insurance is minimal, and cost competitive. Australia also refuses to subsidise new patented drugs unless they offer real improvement over existing drugs. Since this is one of the biggest ways that US Pharmas make their money (slightly re-engineering a drug and patenting it again, even when there are no improvements) it means that the the drug costs in Australia are affordable and the economics of it are sustainable.
In Germany they have public insurance companies (multiple, competing against each other) to which the majority of the population belongs, where the employer pays half and the employee pays half (after income tax), and the payments are based as a percentage of your income level, and can vary slightly between insurers. If you earn over a certain threshold, you may apply for private insurance, which is usually cheaper if you're healthy. But it can then be hard to get back into public insurance later in life when it would be cheaper to have public insurance. Private patients do tend to get a little better service, but the overall service is quite good. My issue with this system is that the middle class pay for the poor, while the rich just pay for themselves. There's also too much chance for profiteering, and a preference for private patients who can be charged more than the statutory limits.
In the Netherlands they have only private insurance companies, but with strong regulations, and a fixed basic package that's the same across providers, but competitive on price and sometimes extras. The basic monthly insurance cost is under €100 (I pay €88), and the Government co-funds insurers (through income-based taxes) based on their customer profiles. An insurer cannot discriminate - they must insure every person who legally lives in the Netherlands and applies to them. There's also a rebate of up to €255/year this amount, and there is an optional personal excess for cheaper premiums - this causes individuals to be more aware of the costs of health care, and not treat it as a bottomless piggy-bank.
I like the dutch system, because it puts everyone on an equal playing field, but maintains quality control and the economic factors important in competition. Of course it only works because regulation extends all the way up the supply chain. Pharmaceutical companies aren't given a free ride either, like they are in the US.
It sure is nice to live in such countries. :-)
It took a while to wade trough the eight pages of comments ,most of the attacks against Moore were of course predictable ,no need to spend any time on that .Just a little comment however :somebody ventured that europeans are for 80 precent dissatisfied with their health system .That is just a blatant lie of course ,typical neocon spin .THose people that take interest here in Europe in learning how other systems function would not be satisfied with the american system .Dare I say it,not 1 percent of the people here prefer american healthcare .
My guess is this debate should be over and done with .Register as voters and do your duty,all those of you that think that healthcare is necessary for all ,vote for those that defend a socialised health care and get rid of conservatives and neocons .Oh yeah make those rich guys pay for the poor .That is democracy in real life. Dont waste time arguing with them,egoists are immune to solidarity.
I am tired of the ignorance of so many.
Drug prices.. everyone rails about drug prices and yet no one stops to think what would happen if rich America stopped paying the high drug prices and instead got the discounts that Canada gets..
well' lets see.. maybe a bit less breakthroughs?
less money to run trials for 10 years to satisfy the poorly managed FDA?
oh, no I'm sorry, I forgot all the money goes into a bunch of white guys pockets.. drugs dont neeed to be researched, developed or tested.
silly me.
Silly you indeed,you forgot to mention poor americans also pay high prices for medication,just like everybody else.
I haven't seen the movie yet. However I have wondered since I was young why our health care system focuses almost entirely on symptoms. I finally realized it when a friend was put on blood pressure medication. Of course his blood pressure went down when he started taking the medication. He thought it was better and so he stopped taking the medication and the blood pressure went back to where it was originally. The blood pressure medication was not developed to fix the problem it was developed to be a life time prescription. As many have mentioned 'follow the money'. Which makes more money? a. fixing the problem, or b. lifetime prescriptions?
If cancer, diabetes, and heart disease were cured overnight then a billion dollar industry would be destroyed. Do you think the corporations that own the pharmaceuticals really want that to be bankrupted? This happened when Polio was cured. So now if a cure is found what do you think is going to happen? It will be discredited, ridiculed, branded as ineffective, corporate lobbying with the FDA will get it banned. Still don't believe me? If our medical system is so advanced then where are all the cures? Watching the news a while back I heard that Cancer will be manageable in the next 10-20 years. In other words they will have a drug that has to be taken for the rest of your life. What happened to searching for the cure?
I don't know the solution to the health care costs? However I do know one of the problems. I believe there is a disconnect between the actual cost of the health care. This disconnect has been made possible by the insurance companies. If all Americans had to pay the current health care prices then there be only a few that could do it and the market would be forced to adjust. Did you know that some pills cost more than $1,000 for one pill. My wifes grandfather took pills to fight the cancer prescribed by the Doctor each pill cost of $1,000. Without insurance companies how long would the market support that price? Now I hear that politician's solution to health care costs could be mandatory health insurance for everyone. I bet insurance companies would love this it means even more profit for them. Quite a sweet spot for them to have their service become mandatory. I shudder at the thought because the original thing that enabled the prices to get out of control is the very same thing that the politicians are claiming will fix the problem.
You've been told to think America has the best health care system in the world. Do you still believe it now?
Hey Kill Yourself. You are really a piece of work. The beauty of this is that nobody really gives a rats @#$% what you think or about your little business (wow a half a million) You are so full of crap you believe your own bull #$$%. Maybe it was all those needles you stuck in your arm! I must return to my bubble now and enjoy my luxurious spot in the burbs. You probably employ a bunch of illegals too, don't you. Are you a flag burner too? Wacko!
'Get a Life!' your posting is full of nothing. No logic, No facts, at least attempt something constructive!
news flash .
the only person who doesn't hate bush is bush himself.
well maybe his sickning smileing wife
That's the point Mark! You actually get it. Nobody ever looks at the facts. They just listen to all this garbage people regurgitate after hearing it from the Michael Moore's of the world or some other attention hungry idiot. That's why I wasted my time arguing with one of those idiots (Kill Himself). If more people would actually do their own research (really search out the facts on both sides)this country would be much better off. I get so tired of hearing people just repeat what they hear on CNN, The Today Show, MSNBC or Fox News and fight as though it is the undisputed truth. The bottom line is that people lie and twist the truth for theri own agendas all the time but the facts are attainable and paint the true story. I was just waiting for someone like yourself to speak up. Thanks for helping me make my point.
It's more than obvious to any person having intelligence that Michael Moore is pandering to a purely political line of reasoning. The presidential race is heating up. It's just propaganda. Most people I've talked to don't believe that Michael Moor is a credible source of information about anything, let alone health care. What made him an expert? He's clearly inventing his own reality, selling it, and making money from it.
Hey folks. Wake up. Michael Moore is making a profit from this movie. Huh? Or are you that naive?
We lived in London for 3 years and just returned to the U.S. We had two young children and became quite familiar with the NHS system.
The British will in one breath passioantely defend the NHS as the greatest product of British civilazation, and then proceed to complain about the wait lists, out-dated facilities, lack of choice, and the fact that all of the really good doctors are only available to the rich. Health care was a daily topic on nearly every news outlet.
If you are young or have children, it is a great system - no forms to fillout, no insurance companies to argue with, and a consistently dedicated and compasionate staff. You don't even need to show identification.
But if want access to the type of specialists we take for granted in the U.S. (You want to see a pediatric urologist? Sorry, we only have a pediatrician. And you can see him in three weeks. And if you are late for your appointment, you will have to wait another three weeks.)
And if you are over 50, you start to see the hard cold facts of how rationed health care works.
In the U.S. we ration access to the healthcare according to your ability to pay. In the UK, they ration health care with time. That's the trade off - money for time. And the older you are, the longer you wait.
Don't take my word for it - ask the next brit you meet - they will all have a tragic story to tell about an elderly uncle or parent who died while waiting for traatment.
I'll take the U.S. system any day.
Making $500k/yr. blowing AIDS infested meth heads does not constitute a business!!!
'Interestingly, the ratio of people here posting (usually) emotional diatribes about how evil a 'propagandist' Michael Moore is to supporters is about the same ratio as people who still support the current administration to the rest of the country that's awakened to what a raw deal we've been dealt - about 20%. I guess once you drink enough neo-con kool-aid you can't see the light, except to scurry from it like a six-legged pest.'
Try to get a comment in around a michael moore fan club.
Well....this is not an issue that should pitch right-wing fanatics against the left-wing illiterates. We receive good health care in the country. If anyone disagrees, please consider moving to France or Germany. The overall quality of life is very good in the US.
Hmmm.....why is the right wing richer than the left wing as many claim in this webpage? answer: because the left wing illiterates sit in front of a computer cheetos in hand and watching paris hilton videos. Get up, work and have a life. :-)
It's easy to compare health care apples to apples by simply looking around and turning over a few rocks for yourself. Start by asking yourself these questions:
* Why does the US spend 16% of its GDP, yet fails to cover over 50 million of its citizens? Why are millions of others only partially covered and only one accident away from financial disaster?
* How can Canada cover ALL its citizens for 9.7% of its GDP? Switzerland for 10.9%? Germany for 10.7%? France for 9.5% (France is widely recognized as having the BEST health care for its citizens on the entire planet.)
* Why are US citizens PROHIBITED by LAW from buying cheaper, name brand pharmaceuticals for other countries?
Answer: Easy. Our present form of government is 'Corporatism' and only one small step removed for outright Fascism. Corporations easily buy politicians and administrations (of either party) and bend them to their will in the name of more profits. Citizen rights and needs come far behind corporate interests in our country.
They happily provide you with copious propaganda to stay in control. Amazingly, they find plenty of sheep to support them as well.
Take some initiative to check things out for your self. You could start by checking statistics from the National Coalition On Healthcare.
Wake up and smell the coffee!
Shame on Google!! It shouldn't bash unless it has a better idea of how to fix the healthcare problem. At least someone is saying something about it. I don't think google want to googlize the healthcare industry. They would have to be evil to make a buck.
Wheather you agree wiyh Moore or not its painfully obviouse that health care is a joke. Its a all or nothing system,either you can afford full coverage or your eligable for welfare,medicade whatever, the working class is and has been raped by the system.
Who knows whatever happened to the Hippocritic oath? I can assure all those nay sayers that although some cases may seem extreme and may not be neccessary the norm they are all too frequent,must we wait for the bottem to drop? It seems as though the ins cos. and hmos. are just testing the waters to see just how far they can go. I speak from personnel experience.
Dollars? Its about dollars I hear. Well here is one plain fact no one appears to see,.....its far more profitable to treat the symtoms then it is to
delvelope a cure!!! Especially at 300 dollars per script!!
nuf said
I'm tired of you America hating people - if the government and health care and everything else sucks so much - please move out of the country.
While I'm not a huge fan of Moore's because he tends to bend facts to make his case, Turner and Google clearly have a financial interest in defending the medical profession and insurance against Moore's claims.
The truth is: medicine, drugs and insurance are money-making operations that do not have the best interest of the patients at heart. They never will. Modern medicine has more to do with drug pushers and loan sharks than it has to do with caring for the ill.
Al Sullivan
Senior staff writer
Hudson Reporter
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