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By Stevie Smith Jul 3, 2007, 13:32 GMT
Google blogger slams Michael Moore’s Sicko
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Michael Moore - View Michael Moore Pictures - Michael Moore News
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Older Talkback
I'm sorry Nikki. Been there with my mom who had apparently had a stroke-turned out to be a bad reaction to her heart medication. It took from 6:00 pm until 2?30 am. It's ridiculous the amount of profits these people are making. Capitalism is one thing, evil greed at the expense of innocent people is another.
I have a question: Why has this particular string drawn so many angry, hateful people?
what happened to do no evil? Or maybe Google just doesn't want to lose health advertising money. I hope I am wrong, I used to like Google.
The problems in our health care system are not understood by many Americans, especially those who rarely travel and don't understand the system in the EU and Canada.
WHO rates us 38th for many reasons, not the least of which are our health care premiums. Case in point--i'm a retired teacher. Health insurance for my family of 3 is $1500 a month in a group plan. My pension is $2200 a month. Millions are in the same situation. It's sad but true that it's far cheaper for me to carry an extremely high deductible major medical plan and buy tickets to Europe for our health exams and treatment.
Cost of 'socialized' medicine and the 'fact' that we pay lower taxes than other countries is often expressed. Add up all our income taxes, including state and SS taxes, plus your health care premiums, which Europeans don't pay, and then compare to European and Canadian taxes. My total income taxes, including health insurance premiums are 15% higher than the average European country with 'socialized' medicine.
Interestingly, our president, congress and military have socialized medicine and have never mentioned giving it up for the greatly inferior system the rest of us have.
Also, we have 'socialized' education, police, FBI, government, highway departments, libraries, customs, etc. Why? Obviously, because they're cheaper and more efficient. Perhaps health care and nursing home care should also be functioning at their level.
Anything that Michael Moore takes a position on is suspect! I treat his positions the same as I treat the white supremacy movement. Outlandish, crazy, and totally without foundation!
Michael Moore has made millions on the blood and suffering of innocent victims. He further dishonors those victims by his gross distortion of the truth. It is a shame some people actually believe what he sells, and that he profits so at others expense.
Uncontrolled capitalism leads to feudalism. History proves repeatedly that the best economies have social regulation in the mix. The health care industry is one of several industries that the consumer has no standing with. When the media and the politicians are being influenced, controlled, or bought by the same corporate interests, it is too powerful a source of disinformation for the average feeble minded, flag waving American to contend with. When someone such as Michael Moore points out the fiction in a coordinated political and media story, they are labeled by that coordinated effort of politicians, media and advertising interests, as 'radical, leftist, etc.'. You will see very little refutation of facts, but plently of unsubstantiated character assasination (a sure fire indication of the presence of painful truth). Michael Moore is not beyond criticism and one should view all information with some degree of skepticism, however, Moore's actions can be seen as a good deal more patriotic than standing up for 'Scooter' Libby and Haliburton (which showed it's patriotism by ripping off billions from taxpayers and moving to Dubai). After all, Michael Moore is attempting to stand up for the average American worker, while the current administration is attempting to stand up for white collar criminals (the real terrorists). Do we really need Michael Moore to tell us that we are being ripped off by the healthcare industry? Is anyone seriously not experiencing that reality? To challenge the system, yes even our carefully controlled perceptions of Cuba, is not anti American, it is anti Corporate, and Americans better start learning the difference if they want their kids not to become the next illegal immigrants to Canada within the next 50 years.
Matt, you need to stop parrotting the anti-tort lobby line and do a little research on the statistics on medical malpractice lawsuits. The fact is that they constitute a tiny (less than 5 percent) percentage of all litigation, which itself constitutes a tiny percentage of all law practice. The vast majority of cases are resolved without anyone going to court or filing suit. Moreover, even in states like Virginia, which has very strict and extremely unfair caps on med-mal payouts - even in cases of really egregious negligence resulting in lifelong disability costing millions the most a litigant can recover is $1 million - the malpractice insurance companies continually raise their rates and complain that they have to because of malpractice cases; however, the facts do not bear them out. The fact is that the rate of med-mal lawsuits has remained pretty close to the same per capita since the early 70s. In addition, many states (such as Virginia) have enacted 'bad baby' legislation, which means that rather than have a limitless payout for something like cerebral palsy through a lawsuit the aggrieved parents must settle for an administrative determination and payout through a special state fund set up for such cases by the legislature. Notwithstanding all these actions and more, charges for malpractice coverage continue to escalate exponentially. During the 80s the med-mal firms claimed it was the rise in lawsuits which raised their rates. It was instead their heavy and irresponsible investment in junk bonds. When the S&L crisis hit they lost all their investments - and blamed it on the lawyers. That worked for them, so from then on everything became the fault of the lawyers.
Quit bickering and just realize that America has a problem that it needs to fix.
Well said BK. Well Said. and to the bigot with no life who said i didnt get involved in my community? I WAS one of those drug addicts. at 20 i was sticking needles in my arm. I am a strong individual and made it threw and now i own a half a million $ a year buisiness with no overhead. That 30 percent you put in your bank account i give to the locals. Hmmmm.... that means i have givin away more in the last year than you will most likely ever give away, you nice christian. I understand convincing people to come over to my side is a lost cause because selfishness plauges this country. But to just assume that people are looking for handouts is absurd. 99% percent of my fellow street kids are either dead or in jail. More than half of them would have been avoided if society would have shown some compassion. And to think that it is easier for you pigs to laugh(eg..boo hoo) at that than help is really christian like ay? As hard as i have worked, i still consider myself lucky. No need to call me a hypocrite either for owning my own buiseness. I make my money because that is what the market is. I would gladly cut it in half if the suits across the country did so to give people on the low end a health meter thats not riding on empty. I drive a 92 nissan with 192K miles because i dont need those false idols to impress my friends. And anyways, its not my fault you work 2 jobs to make sure your little whore has a spoiled life. Didnt you say you have a degree? maybe someone needs to give you a hand out so u will calm down and realize life DOESNT have to be so hard....peace
FACTS: Two patients needing operation (cancer)
Patient #1 We need $50.000 in advance. But this will wipe out my life savings as well as I will need to make a loan on my home. I worked all my life and I am retired. I am very sorry but we must be paid.
Patient # 2 We need $50.000 in advance. But I have nothing. No home and no money. I am on welfare. I also get food stamps and subsidized housing. Plus a little disability for a twitch in my left big toe. No problem amigo you are then covered we will admit you. Ah, gracias God bless America...
The richest nation in the world is 24th in the WHO list of quality of health care, 23 million have no health insurance while politicians get taxpayer funded (socialised) healthcare. Surely part of living in a society is a responsibility to others.
This sense of community still exists in small communities, so when did the 'let them eat cake' mantra become a substitute for debate for the rest of us?
No one should be bankrupt to save a loved one, no one. The bickering and vitriol displayed in this string serves no constructive purpose, rather it displays a shameful abrogation of responsibility.
A child dies from a tooth ache and you are not outraged?
When a nation that makes (some of) us rich does so at the expense of the most vulnerable it is the nation that is sick.
Christopher Murray, M.D., Ph.D., Director of WHO's Global Programme on Evidence for Health Policy. 'Basically, you die earlier and spend more time disabled if you’re an American rather than a member of most other advanced countries.'
FACTS: Two patients needing operation (cancer)
Patient #1 We need $50.000 in advance. But this will wipe out my life savings as well as I will need to make a loan on my home. I worked all my life and I am retired. I am very sorry but we must be paid.
Patient # 2 We need $50.000 in advance. But I have nothing. No home and no money. I am on welfare. I also get food stamps and subsidized housing. Plus a little disability for a twitch in my left big toe. No problem amigo you are then covered we will admit you. Ah, gracias God bless America...
It's absolutely amazing that Michael Moore makes this films with isolated incidents and passes them off as being the norm. Of course we have major problems with our health care providers. But Moore ignores the fact that people in Cuba, France, etc., wait months for certain tests and those that can afford it come to the US for their health care. Making Cuba look like an advanced nation with advanced technology is an absolute joke. Who doesn't see through this charade and realize that the portion filmed in Sicko was completely set up and nowhere near what the average Cuban citizen endures. And I know people in Canada who cross the border (Michigan, especially) to get MRIs and other tests that require months of waiting in Canada. Again, we have to do something to insure more Americans, Blue Cross charging $500 and more per month for health care is a crime. But like another post noted, suing doctors for malpractice has gotten so commonplace it makes it tough on the rest of us. But socialized medicine is NOT the answer, never will be. In Germany, single people have to pay over 50% of their income for taxes. Affordable health care is the answer (not free). Moore is great in all his movies in showing specific cases to fit his agenda, ignoring those that disagree with his opinions. A rich, rich guy who supposedly wants to help the 'common person'. He claims to own no stock where it's been proven he owns tons of stock and profits as a result. I wouldn't trust Moore as far as I could throw him, fat man or not. This guy's to the left of Lenin.
Healthcare is a mess. And dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. But it's a fantasy to think that the government can do a better job than private industry. Experience has shown again and again that the government is not good at administering large social programs. (i.e. welfare, social security)
The reason that healthcare is so expensive is simply that it costs a lot to provide healthcare. I know, it sounds simple, but it's true. Sure insurance companies want to make a profit, but no more so than anyone else. And free market competition helps to insure that prices are kept at a practical mimimum.
The fact is, it takes a lot of money to develop new drugs, new technologies, etc. We have more treatment options available today than ever before, but many of these treatments require very expensive tools, pricey drugs, and highly trained doctors. The successful treatment rate for cancer is much higher than 20 years ago. We now have drugs available to treat AIDS, but a TON of money was spent to develop those drugs. Healthcare simply companies do what every other company does in a free market system. They make you pay the cost, plus a little extra for profit.
What makes healthcare special is the unlimited demand. In any other business, the average consumer doesn't typically buy the latest, most expensive product. They wait until it gets cheaper. But in healthcare this isn't always an option. You have to get the $100,000 treatment, even if you can't afford it.
The reason that drugs cost more in America is because the drug companies know that Americans can afford to spend more. The drug companies could charge less in America, but then they'd have to increase the charge in other countries to make up the difference. The average cost to develop a new drug is somewhere around $800 million. No one would invest in costly research if they weren't allowed to profit from it.
In Africa, some AIDS treatment drugs are freely donated by drug companies. The drug companies could ask them pay for the cost of research and production. But they know most Africans can't afford the cost of the drug. So they give itm away for free, making up the cost by charging more in America.
Where is all the money being spent to develop the latest drugs and technologies? I'll give you a hint. It's not in Cuba.
People need to start looking at the real problem, instead of always trying to find someone to blame.
I am just sick-o of coming to Google News and seeing Michael Moore still listed under there as news for Sicko. Could he and all the articles about him just go away!! Please.
I think our health care is perfect and needs no change.
I pay 13% of my income on insurance + $50 copay and about 22% income tax. There is also sales tax, value added taxes, communication taxes, value added taxes, fuel tax, etc. so I'm about at 50% of my income goes to taxes.
Well, maybe a few little changes, like being able to choose a doctor or receive house calls if I'm infirmed as they have in Germany. If I really want that I should just earn more money, for I only make $40k
Kill all the HBO's, provide HEALTH CARE FOR OLD PEOPLE 60 THAT HAVE AN INCOME OF 25000 OF LESS. NO PAYMENT OF DRUGS FOR THESE FOLKS. THE GOV. MUST NEGOTIATE WITH DRUG COMPANIES OR BUY THEM IN CANADA.
GET RID OF THE VETERAN'S ADMIN. LET THE VET GO TO PRIVATE HOSPITALS. FOR OPERATIONS OF EXTREME COST FLY THE PATIENTS TO INDIA OR THALIAND WHERE THE COST AND QUALITY FAR EXCEED THE US.
LIMIT THE PAYMENT TO HOSPITALS AND THAT IS ALL THEY GET NO MORE.
KILL THE HBO'S THEY ARE DESTROYING THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE US.
I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT WHO WILL LISTEN.
I FOUND SOME DISTRUBING THINGS IN THE MOVIE SICKO HOWEVER, THE COST FOR THESE SYSTEM WERE NEVER DISCUSSED. I THINK IT IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.
BUT BECAUSE OUR GOVERMENT IS CORRUPT FROM THE LOWLY LOCALS TO THE HIGHEST SCHMUCKS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS. THERE WILL NEVER BE A SOLUTION.
Whats really funy Is that we can be charge up to $3.50 for a asprin in the hospital but you can get a .99 cent burger that will clog your arteries.
I am so sick of The RightWing saying If you dont like this country then get out!
I SUPPORT THE TROOPS BUT WHEN THEY SAY YOUR NOT PATRIOTICS BEACAUSE YOU DONT SUPPORT THIS WAR?
There saying get out because they dont want to be exposed for all the dirty dealings under the table.
WAKEUP AMERICA!!
THE CARLYLE GROUP BUYS MANOR NURSING HOMES NATION WIDE FOR 6.8 BILLION WITH THE REPULICANS IN THIER POCKET AND THE FDA AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES IN THIER POCKET! (MMMM): I WONDER WHO WILL BE MAKING PROFIT FROM THIS?
NOT THE ELDERLY ESCPECIALLY WITH THE BABY BOOMERS REACHING RETIREMENT.
ITS NOT ABOUT MICHAEL MOORE ITS ABOUT HEALTH CARE ATTACKING THE MESSENGER IS NOT THE ANSWER THEY ARE LOTS PORK BARRELS AND BIG POCKETS BEING FILLED WITH CASH LETTING PEOPLE JUST DIE AND GETTING REWARDED AND GIVEN BONUSES.
I LOVE MY COUNTRY AMERICA BUT YOU HAVE TO WONDER 8 YEARS OF BUSH HAS DONE WHAT?
SCARE TACTICS TERROR ALERTS AND WHERE IS OSAMA?
ONE WORD (BANKROLL)
Interestingly, the ratio of people here posting (usually) emotional diatribes about how evil a 'propagandist' Michael Moore is to supporters is about the same ratio as people who still support the current administration to the rest of the country that's awakened to what a raw deal we've been dealt - about 20%. I guess once you drink enough neo-con kool-aid you can't see the light, except to scurry from it like a six-legged pest.
I have to laugh when I read one of these mindless tributes to wing-nuttery. Most of the posters of anti-Moore invective show from their comments that they really have no idea what the documentary 'Sicko' is about, they've just been taught to hate him from the years of right-wing talking points they've assimilated & spew venom-de-jour at him. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - his films are propaganda'. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - he hates America'. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - he makes money'. 'Oh, how can anybody believe him - he's fat'! etc...
Tell ya' what. All you chuckleheads who are claiming the current healthcare system isn't broken and that Michael Moore is the spawn of Satan for even suggesting such, when the inevitable change in our healthcare system occurs (and it will, just a matter of time), please feel free to opt out and pay out your ass for the same care the rest of us are getting for a reasonable price.
Will that happen? Hell no. I for one will enjoy watching the wingnuts sheepishly eating their crow pie.
I'm an Australian who has lived in Germany and now the Netherlands, and I've been able to compare the various health coverages available in each of these countries.
In Australia, we have Medicare to which everyone belongs, with optional private insurances which can cover extras (dental etc) or private hospitals. It works quite well, and the difference between public and private insurance is minimal, and cost competitive. Australia also refuses to subsidise new patented drugs unless they offer real improvement over existing drugs. Since this is one of the biggest ways that US Pharmas make their money (slightly re-engineering a drug and patenting it again, even when there are no improvements) it means that the the drug costs in Australia are affordable and the economics of it are sustainable.
In Germany they have public insurance companies (multiple, competing against each other) to which the majority of the population belongs, where the employer pays half and the employee pays half (after income tax), and the payments are based as a percentage of your income level, and can vary slightly between insurers. If you earn over a certain threshold, you may apply for private insurance, which is usually cheaper if you're healthy. But it can then be hard to get back into public insurance later in life when it would be cheaper to have public insurance. Private patients do tend to get a little better service, but the overall service is quite good. My issue with this system is that the middle class pay for the poor, while the rich just pay for themselves. There's also too much chance for profiteering, and a preference for private patients who can be charged more than the statutory limits.
In the Netherlands they have only private insurance companies, but with strong regulations, and a fixed basic package that's the same across providers, but competitive on price and sometimes extras. The basic monthly insurance cost is under €100 (I pay €88), and the Government co-funds insurers (through income-based taxes) based on their customer profiles. An insurer cannot discriminate - they must insure every person who legally lives in the Netherlands and applies to them. There's also a rebate of up to €255/year this amount, and there is an optional personal excess for cheaper premiums - this causes individuals to be more aware of the costs of health care, and not treat it as a bottomless piggy-bank.
I like the dutch system, because it puts everyone on an equal playing field, but maintains quality control and the economic factors important in competition. Of course it only works because regulation extends all the way up the supply chain. Pharmaceutical companies aren't given a free ride either, like they are in the US.
It sure is nice to live in such countries. :-)
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