The NBC drama “Kings,” which begins Sunday March 15 (8-10 pm ET/PT), is an Old Testament inspired tale that veers in odd angles, but ultimately is saved by the extraordinary talent of star Ian McShane, the patriarch of the Benjamin family who rules the nation of Gilboa as King.
Ian McShane as King Silas Benjamin, courtesy of NBC
The story echoes the Bible stories of King Saul and David (of Goliath fame).
The pace of the series is enjoyably slow, but given all the cast of characters you are aquainted with, it is a nice change from some cryptic network fare that leaves you in the dust if you miss one episode. "Kings" is a cable premium quality yarn, a soap opera and a telenovela all in one.
"Kings" is hinged on the heavily theocratic rule of King Silas, a warrior from the fields who took the reigns of the kingdom with some backdoor corporate religioso funding.
The hero of "King"s is a poor, but capable countryside farmer from a large family of boys, all conscripted to fight as their late Father did. David (Chris Egan) is called David Shepherd - who in the opening shots is tracked down by the King's Rev. Samuels (Eamonn Walker). His gift of a golden watch to David with the show's mystical butterfly engraved in the back begins the action and introduces the back story of David's battlefield heroics that rewrite his life's destiny.
King Silas has created a new nation, and erected a prosperous city, Shiloh, a gossamer Gotham, from which to rule it.
The people amass at the doors of the King's residence, as war rages just a few hours away. In battle, David not only stands in front of a tank, he rescues the king's heir and son, Jack (Sebastian Stan), and is elevated by the media to superstardom, to the chagrin of fey party boy Prince Jack, and his ice-cold Queen mother as David becomes a perceived threat to the King.
Not-so-thinly veiled biblical references aside, 'Kings" is a Rich Man Poor Man-flavored soap opera, where predictable arcs unfold as the King's own daughter Michelle (Allison Miller), a healthcare activist, falls for David. Queen mum (Susanna Thompson) does her darndest to undermine it; deeply flawed and bitter son Jack resents both David and his father for stepping on his true nature, and the Queen's corporate bigwig Theocrat brother (Dylan Baker) is revealed to be the purse strings, warmongering power behind Silas' throne.
It is the pure strength of McShane who carries this series off as a weighty worthwhile drama, instead of morphing into a buffoonish nightime soap opera like "Dallas" or "Knots Landing" that saves it. McShane was best known as Al Swearengen on HBO's series "Deadwood," but McShane's performance in Silas is no one trick pony; he's layered, complex, funny, profane and deeply compelling to observe in frame.
Monsters and Critics joined some other journalists for a telephone interview with Kings star Ian McShane and executive producer Michael Green.
Ian, how did it feel to be King?
Ian McShane: It’s marvelous to be king. Not for too long but it’s going to be good for awhile as our dear friend Mel once said, yeah. It’s almost a year ago since I met Michael and Francis to discuss this. And it’s been a great year. We’re just about finishing up - we finish up in two days.
I mean, we said at the beginning of this session that it’s good to be king or it’s good to be going to be king. Al had the problem of, you know, ruling a town and realizing that the old ways couldn’t go on. In many ways Silas has been in power for a long time and Silas has gone soft with it; it’s like he expects things.
Besides the biblical references, can you comment on the religious undertones?
Michael Green: I think so, I mean, it’s a show where religion is as much a subject as politics is. So we drew from a lot of different sources and, you know, it just let the story take us wherever it was going to take us.
Has NBC has responded specifically to the more religious or more overtly political aspects of the show?
Michael Green: Very supportive, I mean, this isn’t a religious show in the sense of most people expect it. I think when people ask if this is a religious show, they’re thinking more like the Hallmark movies. I think the definition of a religious show is a show that’s designed to inspire religious feeling where this is not a show that’s designed to do that; this is a show that’s designed to tell the best story it can.
In the writing process how much of the history and the culture of Gilboa did you have to know about before you could write a single word?
Michael Green: It started with definite ideas and let it evolve and build as we went. One of the best things about working in series television is you get a group of very talented writers together and let them take your original idea and improve upon it and that’s definitely happened. I had an idea of what this country was and felt like and an aesthetic for it and then our director, Francis Lawrence came in and really helped explode that and make it so much more real and vivid than I had ever imagined it.Are you taking a risk by building something this large in scope - difficult on modern smallscreen budgets?
Michael Green: The risk was less mine than NBC’s, to take a risk on a show that was going to be expensive and be a larger scale show. You know, you’re talking about television landscape and the question is more for me what is the job of network television in a world where cable is taking over niche shows.
Will David be corrupted by power eventually?
Michael Green: I think no one stays good forever. I think this is actually a good question for Ian.
How do you feel King Silas is at the beginning of the show?
Ian McShane: Silas as a character has been king too long. Anybody that does something for too long eventually it overtakes them. He sees in David a rival, a - maybe a protégé both of which are conflicting to him because nobody wants to give up the reins of what he’s got. And that’s the journey in the first season that happens.
Talk about bringing David into the court shows that King Silas doing what appears to be the right thing.
Ian McShane: Well a part of that he may have read Machiavelli too, I mean, that’s part of it, it’s keep your enemies close is always a good thing or keep your friends close; keep all close. And that’s part of Silas’s strategy and his personality too.
Ian, when Michael said, 'I want to redo David and Goliath' what was appealing to you about that?
Ian McShane: Well, if I’d done that I’d say so I’m a little old to play David so maybe - no, I mean it was the book of Samuel which is - and the bible is a great read, whether you believe it or not - it’s a terrific read. And when he started explaining the way the show would be and Francis wanted to create this world it was very appealing.
Michael, King Silas is King Saul from the bible. How did you decide who makes the cut and when they make the cut and how sort of biblical in that regard?
Michael Green: It depends on how long we get to keep doing the show. There’s a lot to draw from. As far as what I decided made the cut it was much more of a decision of where to start David’s story and where to start Silas’s story. And the stories sort of overtook and answered that question for me. You know, you want to leave some room to grow; you don’t want to give everything away in the first two hours so you meet more people as you go and you decide what lessons you need people to learn at various points.
Talk about casting this show.
Michael Green: We have a very huge cast. First of all we have a terrific cast and it was a difficult show to cast in that way. We got extremely lucky in that every role was filled by someone really extraordinary to the point, you know, the definition of that being that they take the role you’ve given them and turn it into something bigger and better than you ever intended.
courtesy NBC
Ian, how did you absorb this character, get under his skin?
Ian McShane: I like the format of this kind of show having come from Deadwood and working with David when I met Michael and Francis. And Michael is the creator of the show. The whole idea of taking on a journey for 13 episodes, well this year 13 episodes, was appealing and it’s worked out very well.
Do you use a lot of flashbacks?
Michael Green: We do see some flashbacks. There’s room for more. We stay more in the present because right now we’re trying to just build up. But we insinuate things; we drop hints. And we’re always looking to flush out the rest of the world.
Are we going to see more outside of their particular country like going into Gath and seeing how their government is run?
Michael Green: We do, yes we do. I don’t want to give it away in spoilers but sooner than you think we do take a visit into there.
Do you have any guest stars you can share?
Michael Green: Quite a few. We’ve been very, very fortunate with guest stars as well, Brian Cox comes in as soon as the first episode after the pilot and plays Vesper Abadon. We have Macaulay Culkin coming in. We have Leslie Bibb. We have Michael Saul David. Oh, goodness, we’ve had a lot of really great people...
Michael, some producers have the final episode in mind and work backwards from there. Do you have a final episode?
Michael Green: I would say both. I don’t know if I have the last episode in mind because you never know how far you’re going to get to go. I believe and treat every script like it’s your last because chances are it will be. But I’ve been approaching it season by season. We knew what we wanted Season 1 to be about beginning, middle and end. We have an idea for what Season 2 if we’re lucky enough to have one will be about, beginning, middle and end and so on. Ian, were you ever a leader-type growing up with your friends?
Ian McShane: No, I prefer the word rebel outsider I think would be - rather than leader. All right, chaps, we’re all going now to the Mets ballgame. No, I never organized things like that.
King Silas' court, courtesy NBC
Michael, of all the great stories out there biblical and otherwise what was it about David and Goliath that really made you want to work on it as opposed to other stories?
Michael Green: You know, it was just the epiphany of if you started with the David and Goliath story look at all the amazing places you could get to go and look at the all amazing stories you could tell from there. It was a story I grew up hearing and had been rattling around in my brain for a long time and I had always wanted to see it done well or done at all. And it felt like a really good opportunity. I wish I had a better answer for that. But you’re asking about the writing process which I don’t have much insight into; as a writer I can just do it.
You approach material and sometimes it’s material that you have to be a very sort of diligent custodian of and you have to be very cautious with it. Take for example if you’re writing Superman there’s certain things that you can toy with and there’s a lot you can’t otherwise you’re changing the fundamentals; it’s sort of this American civil religion of don’t fuck with Superman.
And then there’s other material that is a lot more open. We approach this as, you know, there were tropes and archetypes and a blueprint out there for what stories and character relationships and dynamics would be. But we weren't going to let that define us to the point where we couldn’t move outside that box. So it’s knowing when to stay faithful and knowing when to surprise and knowing when to expand and not being afraid to just make a mistake.
Ian, what research, if any, did you do for your role?
Ian McShane: I take it as it comes. I mean, Michael presented me with a 20 pound 18th Century German bible. Not in German of course but produced in Germany which the book of Samuels - no I love it, I mean, the Bible is a great read. So, it gets better all the time. Saul I’ve found, or Silas, Saul/Silas has been a tremendous part to play over the last six months.Are there things that you’ve seen in current politics that you’ve really applied into the show?
Michael Green: Yeah I would say much of it unintentionally and some of it intentionally. You know, you can’t help but be affected by the times around you. I would say a lot of the network political landscape has actually affected the show in terms of, you know, how we fit into the NBC landscape.
Ian, were there any particular leaders that you saw in current times that you drew on in coming up with Silas?
Ian McShane: No, I think they all pale a bit, they all seem a bit puny besides what Silas goes through in this one aside from maybe some foreign leaders but I can’t think of any domestic ones. Maybe now you could... but beside Mr. Obama we’ll see how it goes from there if they give him a chance, you know?
Can you talk about the overall look of the show and the world you’ve created?
Michael Green: Sure. It’s hard to talk about it at all without talking about our director Francis Lawrence... he and I spent a lot of time taking, again, the original nugget idea I had which was the script which had descriptions of the world and a lot of insinuations of what the world would be.
What was your reference point for your character’s like dialogue and persona, did you model him after someone specific?
Ian McShane: No I didn’t model him at all. I took the - well Michael’s (done) an interesting which I haven’t mentioned so far actually. Where he’s created a language too in this which is part ordinary speak and part, if you like, part Gilboa-speak in the terms that it’s got its own natural rhythm and sometimes it goes into a sort of a formality. But it’s its own formality.
Do you think being a hero in today’s world is different than decades past?
Michael Green: I think every generation changes its sense of virtue and sort of its yardstick for what makes a hero. A lot of it depends on what are the challenges. I think today especially honesty is a lot harder a virtue or a lot more heroic a virtue than it might have been before, where honesty was not as difficult a thing. It’s just I think we tend to talk about people who are honest as virtuous when in another generation they might have thought honesty is a given whereas physical bravery might have been valued in other times.
Ian, there's not alot of laughs for your character in this role, not a lot of laughs in Deadwood either, and yet the light comedy of Lovejoy was terrific. Is there any part of you that kind of gets frustrated being serious?
Ian McShane: Oh no I don’t think Al was serious all the time; I think he was very funny. I think quirky is the word...and dark but funny. I mean I think Silas is the same; he’s got quirky moments. I mean, but that just shows you how versatile I am. How nice that some of these... you can play a few different kinds of things.
Ian, can we expect Silas to be as questionably barbaric as Saul was short of collecting the foreskins of his enemies?
Ian McShane: Oh that’s a good one. Michael that - let’s start next year.
Now are the Gilboans behind Silas’s tactics?
Ian McShane: They are to begin with. And they may change later on otherwise I’ll give it away. But I think, you know, well you could ask, you know, you can lull people into a sense of - sense of complacency much like has been done in this country for quite a few years now; they’re lulled into a sense. But people eventually I think will react if you push them too far about situations, conditions and the Gilboans, yeah...
Michael Green: Yeah, they do trust Silas and they have good reason to. And that situation may eventually change.
Is director Francis Lawrence is also working on a modernized retelling of the Sampson story?
What part is Macaulay Culkin playing?
Michael Green: Macaulay Culkin plays...Silas’s nephew
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