Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat Clue Us In About ‘Sherlock’

By Ian Cullen Oct 24, 2010, 5:24 GMT

Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat, photo credited to Jake Landis/PBS

Living in the UK is great of late, due to some absolutely brilliant drama that is being produced for the smallscreen.  

Two of my favorite writers and producers of television are Mark Gatiss (League Of Gentlemen & Doctor Who) and Steven Moffat, who replaced Russell T. Davies as the showrunner on Doctor Who, and has produced some excellent British television drama in recent years with his updating of the classic Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde story in the hit BBC series “Jekyll.”

"Sherlock," debuts Sunday October 24 on PBS "Masterpiece Mystery!" and continues for the next two Sundays.

A modern twist on the classic Arthur Conan Doyle series, our Sherlock is tech savvy and Dr. Watson is a returned war veteran.

Text messages, blogs and other modern communication keeps pace with the lightening face processes of Sherlock’s mental computations.

The first two cases "A Study in Pink" (from "A Study in Scarlet") deals with a rash of suicides that grips London. After examining the evidence, Holmes deduces that the victims are not willingly giving up their lives.

Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat gave insight about their updated version of Sherlock Holmes, titled “Sherlock” and is a joint production between the BBC and WGBH/PBS.
Monsters and Critics interviewed Mr. Gatiss and Mr. Moffat this past Television Critics Association press junket about this excellent limited series:

Monsters and Critics: I read somewhere that you both had very long discussions about Sherlock Holmes during your train journeys to and from Cardiff when you were working on Doctor Who. Could you give us an insight into what was discussed, and how much of that we’ll see in ‘Sherlock’

Mark Gatiss: Yes that’s true. We started because we were always going back and forth to Doctor Who, and we’d always end up talking about Sherlock Holmes and how much we loved it, and all the various movie versions over the years.

The ones we liked the best were the Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce movies, which were actually set during the second world war, and its really because as heretical as it sounds they seem to capture the lightness of touch and the fun of the Arthur Conan Doyle stories, and more so than the more austere recreations.

That’s how it started, and the we had a couple of very obvious light bulb moments. One being that if we set it in the present day. We can get back to the essence of the characters rather than the trappings. Not that we don’t like the trappings because that was part of reading the original stories. You loved the Victoriana, but it was just incredibly refreshing to go back to basics, and be able to do things, which have rarely been dramatized one being the very first meeting of Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson.

We didn’t have a check list of stuff we were going to do. It was more of an exciting escalation of what if we do that? Watson in the original was wounded in Afghanistan, and its the same story and the same war, which leads to so many exciting possibilities. He’s still an army Doctor. He’s a clever man, he’s a very capable brave man who goes back to London with a wound of a very unspecified nature and no mojo, and he meets this extraordinary young man who turns his life upside down.

It kind of all just kicked off there. You can do it in a very short pitch. Which is what we did, and it just seemed to click straight away.

Steven Moffat: It was one of those conversations where the moment you say the basic idea, ‘Lets update Sherlock Holmes again, lets do it again,’ and the measure of that ideas worth is. We then couldn’t stop talking. The ideas were tumbling out.

It was like oh my goodness he’s come back from Afghanistan again. He could write a blog instead of a journal. We did all of those perfect little equivalences, and we sort of knew we were onto something because we couldn’t stop talking or thinking about it.

The trouble is all we did was talk and think about it. We didn’t do anything practical like talk to anybody. We just chatted to each other on the train, and then I mentioned the conversations I’d been having with Mark, and said someone should do that updated Sherlock Holmes idea. We’d be so grumpy when somebody else does it!

Sue [Virtue] immediately sat us down and said, ‘No let us do it. Lets find the time.’ And I said, ‘Oh, but we’re really, really busy...’ and then she said, ‘You’re always going to be really, really busy. Lets just get some scripts done.’

So we did. You see she’s very persuasive my wife, and we... I think this was record time. This was only about three years ago or something. So in record time we planned a great big elaborate pitch to the BBC, and we went in and said, ‘Modern Day Sherlock Holmes.’ They said, ‘Yes,’ and we had to do the rest of our pitch anyway because we’d prepared it, but really they just said yes straight away. Which is the wonderful thing about the BBC. They have that nerve and sudden ability to commit and trust you.

It went straight to a pilot. Straight to three ninety minute movies, and here we are as you are aware having a rather substantial success.

(At this point Mark Gatiss and I get into a little side conversation discussing how well Sherlock performed here in the UK. The overnights for the first episode saw a total of 7.5 Million Viewers tune in for the pilot. However Gatiss is quick to point out that once it has been rounded up with the HD broadcasts as well as folks watching on BBC i-Player. The ratings were totted up to a total of 9.2 Million eye-balls that watched. Making Sherlock British Televisions biggest drama launch since Doctor Who came back in Easter of 2005.)

M&C: The character of Sherlock Holmes is over 100 years old now. What would you say is the secret to the characters success?

Steven Moffat: I think there are two things that attracted me and Mark. Therefore I assume that’s the same thing, and one that we always talk about, and in a way this is the smaller thing. The achievable explicable superpower. The deductions are thrilling. I preferred those Sherlock Holmes stories.

I genuinely think having read one of them. I would now be able to make deductions from somebody’s pencil or somebody’s fag ash. I actually thought this is achievable. This is not only a great trick. It’s better than just a great trick. Like Pen and Teller he tells you how its done. Fantastic.

The other thing, and this is probably the surface glitter that draws you in, but the heart and the soul of it isn’t just Sherlock Holmes. That’s really, really important. It’s the friendship between Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson. The best friendship ever depicted in fiction.

Partly because it’s a male friendship and men don’t talk about being friends, and they don’t ever. They never actually say it. They never say, ‘Oh gosh we’re really good pals where are we going to go with this relationship!’ They’re blokes. They never mention it again.

There’s one moment of affection expressed by Sherlock Holmes in a late era story ‘The Three  Garridebs,’ and he thinks Watson is dead. That’s how male friendship works you make it known when you think they’re about to die.

That story, and that male friendship, it runs throughout the story, and you fall in love. Not with Sherlock Holmes, whose a difficult man. Not with Doctor Watson, who oddly enough can be a difficult man too. A sort of washed up war hero, but with the fact that they adore each other. These two extraordinary, brilliant opposites, who have a simple uncomplicated mutual affection that happened instantly, and remained unchanged over decades, and was never discussed at all.

That’s what people genuinely fall in love with. You cannot discuss Sherlock Holmes without discussing Doctor Watson. The two of them are an absolute unit. Which is why we go to great pains to have Benedict [Cumberbatch] and Martin [Freeman] on the same credit card its all within the fiction, although Benedict would say Sherlock is the more important because he’s the senior man supposedly, but within the actual mechanics of the narrative they are of equal status.

Mark Gatiss: An interesting thing that’s been in a lot of previous adaptations over the years is that people have trouble giving Watson enough to do. The short stories are obviously narrated by him They’re never aware of not having his presence. He’s incredibly present. It’s all through his eyes, but actually I think its a bit of a mistake to think what could Watson do in a scene. Sometimes people give him much of the deduction. So as to even it out a bit, but the evening out should really come from the very beginning. It should be a mutually dependent relationship, and its all the better for that.

M&C: An observation I always seem to have is that many of the movies and television adaptations of the past seem to paint Watson as somewhat of a bumbling character, which is never how I’ve seen the character. I’ve always seen Watson as just as smart as Holmes, but mainly there to keep Holmes grounded.

Mark Gatiss: [Jokes] An observation. It’s very Sherlock Holmes, yes.

Steven Moffat: That’s exactly what he does. He’s the man that humanizes Sherlock Holmes, and to some degree administers a slap when required.

He’s also... You know of all the... If you look at Watson on the printed page. Sometimes he can be a little bit silly or a bit slow, and he has a magical ability to make the wrong deduction just as Sherlock Holmes has the magical ability to make the right one.

But the one thing. The absolute key to the character is this. This is a man that a genius absolutely trusts. Sherlock Holmes is not sentimental in the least. If he chooses to trust someone absolutely. It’s for a reason, and the reason is this. Doctor Watson is no kind of genius, but he’s the most dependable, reliable human being you’ll ever meet. He’s the best possible friend. He is the man a genius would choose to be his friend, and that makes him a very special man as well. There’s more than one way to be special it’s not just about being clever. Sherlock Holmes after all is the least reliable man in the world.

You’d have to be a man with incredible patience and forgiveness like Doctor Watson to choose Sherlock Holmes for your pal.

Mark Gatiss: That being said we always hear about people surrounding themselves with the best. The best wisest managers, and presidents and Prime Minster’s do not surround themselves with idiots, but the worst ones do.

The same thing goes for Lestrade. In the very first story ‘A study In Scarlett’ Sherlock says he’s the best from Scotland Yard, which doesn’t mean he’s a Sherlock Holmes, but he’s a good detective, and if Sherlock Holmes wasn’t around he’d probably get most of the glory.

But it’s a key thing that Sherlock Holmes is clever enough to choose the best.

M&C: Living in the UK. I’ve seen the first two episodes, and the one thing I really liked was Holmes obsession with Texting and modern technology, but at the same time he is still using his grey matter in order to solve cases. How much of a challenge was it for you both to bring Holmes into the now, but maintain the elements of his character that we fans all love to see.

Steven Moffat: It wasn’t that difficult because this is the thing that made us know that this was the right thing to do. It was easy.

The truth is Sherlock Holmes texts a lot in our series. In the Doyle stories he sends telegrams. They are an exact equivalent. It’s exactly what Sherlock Holmes does. I think in the later stories where Telephones are available Holmes still prefers the brevity of a text. Anything to avoid real human communication. So texts are made for him.

It’s not a challenge at all. It’s a continuing joy to find the modern equivalents, but remembering always that we think of him or have come to think of him as a Victorian character and therefore mired in the past! But in the stories as they were written he was at the cutting edge of the Victorian era. He wasn’t this aging monolith from a bygone time.

Mark Gatiss: He’s anything but a technological luddite in the original stories. He’s there, and it only makes sense. He’s got a thriving practice. Initially at least a slow burning practice that’s getting more and more famous. He needs to be on top of all forms of technology. Whatever age you put him in in order to do his job.

M&C: We heard in the press that the director BBC’s programing has asked for a second season of the show. How do you guys feel about doing a second series.

Mark Gatiss: [Jokes] I’m not bothered.

[Mutual Laugher]

Steven Moffat: Well obviously. Look it’s incredibly early days. We haven’t been in for our meeting about this, and we are going in for a meeting. I’m sure we haven’t seen the last of them. Assuming they survive the terrible and traumatic events of Sunday’s episode.

Mark Gatiss: Obviously we’d love to do some more. We want to be in it for the long game really. It’s been such a joy to reinvent it, and for people to have embraced it so fantastically. It’s taken us all by surprise the sheer amount of love about, and that’s because the characters aren’t perishable, and we always knew it was a straight forward simple idea, but we never knew everyone would come with us, but they have.

M&C: Would it be possible to see a modern interpretation of ‘Hound Of The Baskervilles’ and if so will you highlight the animal cruelty aspects, or is that story too period specific?

Mark Gatiss: Not at all. We like to think everything is canonical. All the films, all the things over the years can all be drawn on, and there are certain things as with Doctor Who and The Daleks, The Hound Of The Baskervilles is the most famous story, and we’d love to do it. Quite how we do it is a big question and a great thrill. That’s not a chore to sit down around a table and ask what would it be? Would it even be a dog? What would actually be the essence of that story in the modern day.

That goes for everything. All the famous parts of the series that we want to do in the canon, but you don’t necessarily do them in the same order or even with the same result. There are all sorts of fantastic possibilities that Conan Doyle has happily left us to experiment with. Hound has become like Fish and Chips, but you’ve got to have it somewhere.

Steven Moffat: Yes

M&C: As both a Holmes and Doctor Who fan. The two characters are very similar, but also very different. What would you both say those differences are, and if The Doctor and Sherlock were to meet. Do you think they’d get on.

Steven Moffat: I think in a way the comment is that our version of Sherlock is a little bit like Doctor Who.

The truth is that our version of Sherlock is very like the version that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote, and if you look at the early days of Doctor Who they consciously started to pattern the Doctor a bit after Sherlock Holmes, but there is a genuine historical commonality that they are two great Edwardian adventurers.

On the other hand. Both of us have written Doctor Who many times. They’re actually both quite different. There isn’t an ounce of cruelty in the Doctor’s character whereas there’s quite a lot in Sherlock Holmes.

I often think of the Doctor as an Angel who aspires to be human. He loves all the trivia and the little things of being human. He races toward that and embraces them. He regards emotion as empowering. He falls in love. He’s romantic. He’s into all of that. Yet at the same time he always stands apart because at the end of the day he’s a massively powered alien.

Sherlock Holmes is the opposite. He’s an ordinary human being who aspires to be a God. He’s the opposite of the Doctor. He takes emotion and happiness and all those things and simple transitory passions that the Doctor so values and chooses to embrace and puts them in an iron box and locks it away believing that will empower him.

So they’re travelling in opposite directions and both never arriving at their ideal. So they have things in common, but I think what would happen if they met. Well... let’s be clear, although neither of them is quite aware of the fact. They’ve both got big egos. I think it would be quite tough for them, but they would have different value systems.

Sherlock Holmes would notice that The Doctor, who doesn’t need to be emotional and passionate, is. The Doctor would note that Sherlock Holmes who is heir to all that he aspires will reject them in order to achieve the very same status that he is after.

Mark Gatiss: I’ll tell you what would happen. The limitless limitation effect!

Steven Moffat: That’s it. That’s the one.

M&C:  I was really impressed with both Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman in the two lead roles. How much involvement did you both have in casting your two leads, and were they both your first choice for the parts.

Steven Moffat: Absolute involvement.

Mark Gatiss: Yes, absolute. Benedict was the only person we saw for the part and just seemed to tick every box. He had the Holmes look, which is kind of indivisible. You can’t have a three foot round faced fairly haired Sherlock Holmes. Although some people have tried. He has an incredible kind of gravitas and a maturity beyond his years.

Finding John Watson was harder, but as soon as Martin came in they clicked. They had an immediate rapport, and what Steve was saying about having that friendship on the screen. They have a very real friendship and it just lights up the whole thing. So in the same way as co-crediting them both has been essential to the shows success.

That’s exactly what they have been I think. They’re at the heart of it and there performance has such obvious chemistry, but obviously from the very beginning of conceiving this project. We didn’t have illusions of getting our casting off the shelf or anything like that. It was our decision from the beginning.

Since conducting this interview it has been revealed that a second season of Sherlock has been commissioned and could well air sometime in late 2011 or early 2012 depending on how the production schedule is worked, and I along with many other people will look forward to the second series and enjoy the magical mystery tour that Moffat and Gatiss decide to take us on.

[Final Note] Ian Cullen: "I just have to say that for me it was a huge thrill to talk to both these writers and producers. I have long admired the work of both these men, and have enjoyed much of their output immensely over the years."

You can catch the audio version of this interview at: HERE October 24 at 2 PM PST/5PM EST