NBC's “Heroes” is back on September 22 after a long break.
07/26/2008 - Zachary Quinto - 2008 Comic Con International Day Three - San Diego Convention Center - San Diego, CA. USA © Albert L. Ortega / PR Photos
One of the star attractions at 2008 Comic-Con was the NBC “Heroes” panel and the preview of the new season. It was SRO in the enormous Ballroom as cast and producers fielded fans' questions.
After nine months off the air, the extraordinary forces of good and evil are pitted against each other in a ramped-up action and effects-filled new volume entitled "Villains."
Sylar
On September 22, NBC will have a three-hour "Heroes" extravaganza starting at 8:00, a "Heroes" Countdown Special and then two back-to-back episodes of "Heroes" which were written by Executive Producer, Tim Kring.
With big expectations in the air, creator Tim Kring and Zachary Quinto (a.k.a. Sylar) spoke to Monsters and Critics in a conference call about what we can all expect.
Zachary, I enjoy the understated efforts you put into Sylar as far as your theater training. You come at his character very quietly with a lot of menace. And I wonder if you could talk about your theater training and how it’s helped you with this role, and other roles?
Zachary Quinto: Well actually I’m really grateful to come from a theater background because it’s sort of solidified my relationship to the work from a different - a little bit of a different perspective than you see in Los Angeles sometimes.
There are a lot of actors I think that come from a theater background. So many of my friends actually working in Los Angeles now got those jobs that brought them to LA from New York.
So for me personally, I feel like my training allows me to look at things from more than one perspective. It allows me to have a little bit more of an oversight and understand where a character lives in my body and understand where a character lives in my voice.
And then you sort of modify those understandings to fit the format that you’re working in. I remember when I was in school that teachers would constantly argue about whether there was a different technique applied to television and film than is applied to theater.
I think there definitely is, and I think that coming from a theater background allows me to sort of bring things down. Like rather than going from a small/medium to a large venue, it’s much easier if you can fill a 700-seat theater.
It’s much easier to fill a 34-inch proscenium or whatever the size of the screen is that you’re working on. So for me that training gave me a really great basis from which to work and I continue to learn about the technique and the tools that are necessary to work in television and film.
I feel really fortunate to continue to have the experiences that teach me those new lessons.
Tim, fans at Comic-Con had some concerns that this Volume 3, there were a lot of parallels and it seemed a bit of a doppelganger in premise to “X-Men.” Can you talk about some of the parallels that the new storylines seem to have?
Tim Kring
Tim Kring: I kind of can’t because I don’t really know anything about 'X-Men' and I have no real knowledge of it or the world that - I don’t read X-Men Comics. And so I’m not really familiar with it.
Superpowers, the struggles of the good and evil extraordinary powers, and this apocalyptic world backdrop between the people that are blessed with these conflicting superpowers. There are some similarities.
Tim Kring: From my standpoint there’s clearly a kind of reinvention of the wheel that happens in this kind of storytelling when you’re dealing with really archetypical storytelling of good and evil, and characters that have powers.
I don’t know that there’s any way to avoid things that have been done before. There’s such a vast amount of material in the comic book world that has actually dealt with these stories.
I remember when I first came up with 'Heroes' and pitched it to my friend, Jeph Loeb, for this reason alone to ask him what territory I was sort of entering into.
It’s just by telling an archetypical story that has characters facing sort of big epic battles between good and evil, and trying to live normal lives at the same time.
You never saw any of the “X-Men” films?
Tim Kring: I saw the - is it the third one? Was there a third one? Or was it the second one? I saw it on DVD about a year ago. And yeah, it was sort of like wow there’s a lot of things that are - it’s the same - it’s certainly the same general sort of arena of superpowers. But I didn’t think that it felt much like 'Heroes.'
Zachary. When you signed on as Sylar, did you have any way of knowing how big this character would turn out to be, how the viewers would just love and hate him as much as they do?
Zachary Quinto: Absolutely not. I don’t think there’s any way to sort of predict the way that things - as powerful as this show has been for all of us involved and then for our audience.
When you get involved in it, it’s something that sort of takes you by storm a little bit. And this is obviously the biggest example in my experience of that happening.
But yeah, there’s really no way to predict it. And obviously I’m most grateful that it did, but had no way of telling when I signed on.
How deep in the season will we get an understanding of how Linderman’s back from the dead and why Niki is called Tracy, and what exactly did Sylar do with Claire’s brain when he was fishing around in there?
Tim Kring: Some of those questions will linger a little bit but I think - actually, , by the end of the third hour of the show you have kind of most of those.
One of the goals of this season was because we have been off the air for - will have been off the air for nine months, we didn’t want to drag a lot of story behind us.
We didn’t want to feel like you had to have watched two years of this show to catch up. So we wanted to answer things really quickly so that you could move forward on this volume and have a kind of clean path in front of you.
So there really are not a lot of lingering questions that you carry with you from before. So, the questions - the goal for us from now on with these volumes is to try and answer - literally 95% of the questions that are posed in the beginning of the volume will be answered by the end of the volume. This particular volume, 'Villains', is 13 episodes long.
Zach, did you envision yourself in sci-fi movie-making and TV shows or was this just something that happened by chance?
Zachary Quinto: I never imagined that my experience would lead me so deeply into the comic book and science fiction world as it has. But again it’s something that I’m incredibly grateful for.
I think sort of harkening back to the question that was asked earlier about my training, it makes sense when you look at it from that perspective because I think there’s something very theatrical about those worlds.
Obviously, the world of Heroes is incredibly heightened and there’s something very theatrical about it. So while I never really expected it, it doesn’t necessarily surprise me now that I’m ensconced in it.
And it’s a really exciting group of fans, and so I feel like that’s something else that is an added bonus to the whole thing. It’s like probably the most ardent group of people that you could ever be working for in terms of fans and their enthusiasm for the stories that you’re telling.
I’m happy to be here, I mean, now that I am, I definitely look forward to sort of exploring other areas of storytelling. But I’m so grateful that this one has brought me to a point where I’ll be able to do that.
Zachary, what was sort of your intention for Sylar coming into Season 3 and are you satisfied with the scripts you’ve seen to this point?
Zachary Quinto: I think that the scripts this season are just more exciting and more action-packed, and more dynamic than ever. I mean, I think it just keeps getting better and more - every time I open a script it’s truly a thrill.
Sometimes when I opened the script in Season 3, it’s difficult to keep track of exactly where I’m going because there’s so many different aspects of this character’s experience this year that are drawn upon.
My approach really is just to sort of serve that and to keep track of it at the same time. But I think people will see what I mean as the season unfolds.
Tim Kring: I wanted to kind of clarify something because it’s been brought up a couple of times, this idea of Season 2 versus Season 3, versus Season 1.
The truth is what you were referring as Season 2 was not really our Season 2. It was - it turned out to be Season 2 because of the writers’ strike. It was really sort of like watching a movie and having the projector break 40 minutes into it.
What we’re doing now for Season 3 was really going to be contained within the body of Season 2. So to the extent of a character like Sylar who spent the first volume of Season 2 without his powers, in the subsequent volumes he would’ve gotten those powers and all of - back and then gone on a series of adventures.
I just kind of wanted to clarify that what people are referring to as Season 2 was not by our design. It was really by the design of the fact that there was a writers’ strike.
Tim, can you comment on the strike’s effects on your show?
Tim Kring: Yes, obviously the break was very difficult for so many people. Lots of people that - the crew and the cast and writers that all were out of work and unemployed all that time, it was very difficult and also difficult for the audience not to be able to have the remaining half of - literally half - a little more than half of the season truncated that way.
But the silver lining, as you said, was it allowed us a little bit of a break from the creative, day-to-day of the show that had been pretty relentless for two years.
Three episodes into that volume we would have found out what happened to Caitlin, and as a result of the writers’ strike that has been sort of a lost part of the mythology of the show that may never return.
And with any creative endeavor you just - you absolutely need some time away to reassess and to think about what to do next and to sort of assess what you’ve done well, and what you want to improve on.
Mr. Kring, at what point did you realize that you needed a continuing antagonist like Sylar and that it would be a good idea for Sylar to carry through instead of having an arc and disappear?
Tim Kring: Well Sylar was always designed to stay around. And we knew that you really can’t have heroes without villains and so I think it was kind of built into the premise.
Also what was built into the premise is this idea that these are ordinary people so to the extent that they have - that they make decisions that are based on who they are and what circumstances they are or find themselves in, that determines whether they will be good or evil.
If you are predisposed to be good and you have a superpower, then you’ll use it for something good. If you’re predisposed to be bad, then you may - , then you will use it for something evil.
And so it was kind of always built into the premise that there would be - that our core group of people would be tempted by the circumstances they were in.
Will you feature any characters more prominently than others?
Tim Kring: Well, this season we are not really introducing any new characters that have their own storylines. So we are concentrating very much on the core characters that we’ve had for two seasons now.
We have a certain style of storytelling that really is a kind of pastiche of storytelling where there are multiple characters and multiple stories going on at the same time.
The difference in this volume, Villains, is they are all feeding one big, giant story. So no, we’re not really planning anybody anymore than anybody else, I don’t think.
The audience may feel that way at times, but I think in the aggregate when they see it put together certain episodes may lean a little more heavily on one character or another. But by the end I think it’ll kind of balance out.
Zachary Quinto: I’ll add onto that by just saying I think our show does a remarkable job of tracking all the characters and then sort of bringing them back around to one another, and dovetailing the stories into each other.
For a cast as large as ours, I think all of my fellow actors would agree that each of us get a significant amount in all the episodes that we’re in to chew on - , that there’s never a feeling that one storyline is suffering in favor of another.
Tim Kring: All right, let me just sort of add to that. There’s something that I sort of refer to as haiku storytelling. It’s this idea of being able to - or the classic Name That Tune - I can name that tune in three story beats. So I can name that tune in four story beats.
In other words, you take a story that would normally take ten beats to tell it and you try to find a way to tell it in five. And so it makes for a very exciting kind of storytelling where every scene is sort of - is very complete and very full.
Zachary Quinto: Well I’d certainly be interested in learning as much about his background as the writers see fit. I mean, we do go there again this year. At a certain point you’ll sort of revisit that character and the shades of that character as you first saw him.
As far as how evil I’d want him to get, I feel like Sylar’s evil is rooted in a great humanity and in a lot of smallness, and a feeling of sort of emptiness.
I don’t really look at it again as like how evil could he possibly get. I sort of look at it as like, what he has in front of him and the choices that he makes in order to seize his opportunities or to feel - he’s constantly, constantly wrestling with the desire to feel special, the desire to feel valid, the desire to feel viable.
So I feel like those are the ways that I come at it more than the level of evil that he achieves because those are really just means to an end.
Tim Kring: Let me just sort of add that, Zach has really provided us with - you can’t do a character that’s as sort of deep and complex as Sylar without having the actor who can play those colors and that depth.
Zach has really sort of provided us with the ability to explore this character in really, really deep ways. And I see Sylar as someone who is on a very deep, existential quest to find out the meaning of his own existence and where he came from, and what is driving him.
And we will continue to peel the layers off of that onion as long as this character exists on the show.
Will Sylar get a love interest ?
Tim Kring: To be really honest, that is sort of a quest with this character, is to continue to play off of the duality of good and evil which I think has been at the core of a lot of characters in the show and will certainly become more and more thematic in the show this - in this volume, 'Villains', where so many of our characters will be faced with these choices of who are they really and what is their basic nature.
And so yeah, we are going in places this particular volume with Sylar that will, I think, cause the audience to be really torn as to how they feel about this guy.
They know he is capable of tremendous evil and yet he has a kind of depth of pathos that makes you question your own sense of what’s right and wrong.
Do you see any danger in losing a “normal” viewpoint by giving Dr. Suresh superpowers?
Tim Kring: I would say yes and no. And it’s one of the great challenges of doing a serialized story, is to try to keep the audience guessing and to keep things fresh. So just - what we’ve always sort of prided ourselves on is the ability to have the audience not be able to predict where we’re going.
And so hopefully with Sylar, just when you think that you have figured out what his role for the rest of the series, he’ll change again and will reinvent where that character is.
But yeah, somebody needs to be able to play the role of the outsider on this show and so I would just sort of say stay tuned to see who that is.
Since there are so many ways to get feedback from fans these days, how much you pay attention to what fans are saying and if it ever affects what you do on the show?
Tim Kring: Well I would love to be able to say yes it does affect us. But the truth is - well let me give you an example, the truth is that when we premiere on September 22, we will be I think just starting to shoot Episode 13 of the - which is the finale of the volume.
So to the extent that we could have any input from the audience after people have seen that, I think we would be - we’re so far ahead that there really is nothing that we can do about it.
Unfortunately the audience is very, very far behind where we are creatively on the show. So there’s not much we can do about it.
Zachary Quinto: And that’s kind of a double-edged sword, I think, in a lot of ways because we are creating in a vacuum and so we are relying on each other and relying on our instincts creatively as actors, as well as writers.
And I know from myself and my cast-mates being at Comic-Con and sharing that experience for the first time with this volume and, 6500 people or however many people were in that hall was incredibly exhilarating to be a part of their response to it and to be a part of their reaction, because we all do really value that aspect of it, too - because we know that that’s why we do what we do, because people are responding as adamantly as those fans did.
Tim Kring: The interesting thing is that we come at the show internally as the writers and producers of the show, and the actors of the show as real fans of this particular genre and real fans of this show.
And have said ‘I think we need to go this direction now. We’ve used this device too many times. Let’s start doing this.’ And so we very much are our own fan base while we’re making the show.
How important does family play this season, in the grey area between Heroes and Villains?
Tim Kring: Well, it’s interesting that you say that because the truth is it’s all about family and at the core of this particular volume, we’re exploring the idea - the nature of dysfunction among family.
There are two families that are at the core of this show, the Bennett family and the Petrelli family. And both of them will be tested and tugged in ways that you haven’t seen so far.
Do you think Heroes was judged too harshly in the Season 2, and is that something that you worry about moving on?
Tim Kring: I think that is always the nature of something that hits in a big way, in a very zeitgeist kind of way. It’s very hard to be shiny and new all the time.
And so of course that’s something that always concerns us but there’s not a whole lot we can do. We just make the story that we make.
As for how the season was judged, I think the fans that really stuck with the show saw what ended up being, the second - especially the second half of that volume finally came together in the way that the first season did.
In the first season, we took about eight or nine episodes before the characters even crossed paths with one another. And if you stuck with it, you were rewarded to see where that story went.
In the second season, there were 13 episodes that will never be seen. And so I think it was obviously very hard to judge it as a whole without literally over half of it never being seen. So that’s kind of all I can say about it.
Kristen Bell
Kristen Bell was such a great addition to Season 2 and she’s coming back. When can we expect to see her?
Tim Kring: Well, you will see her in the second hour of the first night back.
Characters that have never really even crossed paths with one another will cross - will actually have some very unique pairings of characters. And for the cast it was really a lot of fun because while they all know one another and get along with one another, and enjoy one another, there are several of the actors on the show that have literally never been in scenes with one another.
And so finding those combinations, I think, keeps it really fresh and not only behind the scenes but for the audience as well.
Zachary, how has Sylar further grown and developed as a character?
Zachary Quinto: Ah, great. Well, this is the longest time I’ve ever spent playing one character on a show and I think there are unique challenges that come along with that - the idea of just being on a show and playing a character in an open ended kind of way, especially in the serialized nature of the way that we tell our stories.
So for me, this character grows and evolves in so many ways this season. I mean, primarily I think he’s put in situations and he is, I think in some ways, manipulated to employ a kind of restraint against his instincts and his impulses that we’ve never seen him have to employ before.
And that’s really a fascinating - been a fascinating journey for me and also, equally challenging. When you come to settle into a character and, , there are certain aspects of this character in particular that people respond to and people come to sort of expect.
There’s a lot of unexpected turns this year for my character and it’s been - every time I open a script there’s just a different kind of challenge, whether it’s a either physical challenge in terms of a fight sequence or a stunt sequence that we’re doing, or a special effects sequence that we’re doing, or emotional challenge in terms of what he’s coming up against in himself, and what he’s coming up against outside of himself with the people that he’s interacting with.
I think the tapestry of that has been incredibly rich this year for my character, in particular. So it’s been a ride for sure.
Could you ever see Sylar becoming a good guy?
Zachary Quinto: I don’t really look at him as absolutely good or bad.
I think that he is constantly walking a line of ambiguity within himself and uncertainty within himself that defines the way he acts - the way he behaves. And so I feel like there are colors of this character that are possible, that are maybe a little less violent and a little less dark than we’ve seen him in the past.
But as long as it’s rooted in a connection to the character’s psychology, then that’s what’s fun for me. So I have nothing but faith in the fact that that would always be the case no matter where this character is taken on the show. And that’s certainly held true so far this season.
During Season 2 you introduced the group of 12 and in one episode Hiro’s dad said there were 8 of them left. Are we going to see any more of group of 12, or are they all dead?
Tim Kring: You actually will see more - yes, you will see a few of them. And that was referring to the idea of the kind of previous generation. The second volume of the show was called Generations and explored the idea that there was a whole series of people who came before our characters and acted in ways that our characters then had to go and, , it’s basically the idea of the sins of the parents had been visited upon their children.
We will see that some of those people survive in very interesting and curious ways in Volume 3. There’s still some remnants of that previous generate.
Do you have any other plans to bring any other famous faces on for an episode or two?
Tim Kring: As of right now, this particular volume really does focus very much on the core characters. And so in this particular volume it’s really not about bringing in a kind of stunt-casting idea.
And in many ways in the show, it’s never really been about that. With people like George Takei that came in, they genuinely were the right person for the part and it was really never about a stunt cast idea.
Kristen Bell - well I guess that was sort of a stunt-casting thing, but that was a series of events that led to her coming on the show. She was available. She was friends with several of the cast members on the show.
And so it was really not a matter of us trying to go out and find that. It, in an odd way, sort of came to us.
Zachary Quinto: And as far as my end of that goes, I feel like I’ve always been more than satisfied with the guests that have been on the show. And I’m more interested in working with good actors than working with someone that gets a job because of that stunt thing.
There’s this battle coming up in the second part of the opener with Elle; how much did you and Kristen enjoy shooting it?
Zachary Quinto: Well I just love Kristen all around. I love working and hanging out with her. I think she has a really great energy and a novel actress. So any time I get to work with her is a good time.
Yeah, it’s a pretty epic battle, some things go down. There are definitely some special effects elements to it. There are some stunt elements to it.
And it’s both personal and epic.
Tim, what the biggest challenge you’ve faced in making the third season?
Tim Kring: Well, in many ways, there’s a continuum on this show for us that the audience doesn’t experience. The audience experiences it in seasons; we haven’t.
We have sort of experienced it as one long production. So in many ways it’s the same challenges. We’re making a very big, logistically complicated show by all accounts - maybe the biggest, most complicated show that there is.
And we sort of raise the bar ourselves. In other words, we’ll do an episode that is filled with twists and turns, and we’ll really blow people away.
And then the next week we have to find some way to top ourselves. And in many ways it’s a very challenging game to play to keep topping yourself. You sometimes you get in a situation where you just simply can’t top an episode from the week before.
And so that for us is a continuing challenge to be fresh and new.
What other opportunities opened up for you and what, if anything, kind of stayed intact for it at the start of the season?
Tim Kring: Well, it’s interesting. I don’t know that I’ve had a lot of time to really think about what opportunities it opened for us. We closed some doors that we would have obviously had to explore and that’s always complicated.
We had actually shot a fair amount of content already and that lives on as DVD extras in the second season that people can actually watch and see where we were planning to go with the next volume.
What the truncated year did for us was allow us to do a kind of reassessment of how to tell a story in an adrenalized way.
I mean, clearly the audience is really not very interested in a slow build on this show. They want to hit the ground running. And so it gave us a little time to figure out just how to do that and in many ways how to tell a story without an act one - to start basically in act two.
We think with Volume 3, Villains, that we sort of we figured that out how to hit the ground running in a really quick way that has a tremendous amount of adrenalin.
We had a lot of concern in Season 1, I know, when I actually went online just to sort of see audience reaction in Season 1 about eight episodes in. And it was just very eye-opening.
The audience was very frustrated with the show and had no idea where it was going, and no confidence in us to be able to figure it out. And three of four episodes later when I logged on, suddenly they were all hooked.
And so clearly we experienced that same idea in the second season as well. And so this third season we’ve sort of figured out a way to hopefully avoid that initial frustration that the audience has.
The second season, the audience would have figured this out, that we were - that we air in these volumes. They would’ve been very familiar with it by the time the season ended.
This year they will hopefully really catch on that we air in volumes. So - and it’s a very important thing for us to do because we want to figure out a way to not get caught in a lot of the problems that most serialized storytelling has where you become impenetrable to the audience after years and years of one continuous story.
We’re now trying to do this - we created this paradigm where you can create a volume, answer 95% of questions in that volume, and move on to another storyline for the audience so that we can keep energizing the story and potentially get new viewers.
What are the benefits for you in terms of dramatic possibility and there would be regret killing anyone off? Is it possible for any character to feel safe?
Tim Kring: The truth is when you do a story that has any kind of stakes involved -- and stakes of life and death -- you absolutely have to have some casualties along the way, otherwise the audience begins to really become very suspicious of whether you ever really mean it when you raise these stakes.
Fortunately or unfortunately, we exist in a world where we actually have to do that in order to maintain some authenticity; the good thing about Heroes is that nobody is ever really as dead as they seem to be on our show because of the ability to time travel, to go back in time because of the flashback nature of the show.
We’ve been able to find characters that return in interesting and new ways. And so in terms of people that you regret, we have found ways of - when we have regretted it, we have found ways to bring those characters back in these sorts of new and interesting ways.
I don’t know that it’s regret, but some of it was just planned or actors’ availability, that sort of thing. Someone like Malcolm McDowell, who we loved working with and found a way to figure out how to have that character return in an interesting way this season.
Regarding Angela Petrelli. She started sort of a recurring character and she’s now become a main cast member. Can you discuss how the characters developed over the season and what we can expect from her this season?
And secondly, on the Heroes Series 2 DVD there’s a deleted scene with Kaito Nakamura’s powers being revealed. What’s the show’s attitude to things revealed in these things?
Tim Kring: Well, no that was very much by our design to be able to show that and then I think the audience will sort of be waiting for when that shows up on the - in the show now. So I think that’s something that doesn’t really concern us. I think it’s actually sort of an additive to the whole idea.
As for Angela Petrelli, this is another example of what happens when an actor - it’s a sort of dream come true to have an actor that meets the writers kind of halfway on a character.
You create something that is only intended to play a certain part on the show and then the actor brings - an actor like Cristine brings so much to the character that we begin to see all the potentials of that character and new potentials of that character.
That’s just sort of a classic example of that. She really has now become a very integral part of the storyline. And in many ways it was because of Cristine’s ability to bring all of these colors and flavors to that character that made that possible.
The helix, the eclipse, the double helix of the (Pinehurst company) is going to be introduced in this Volume 3. How much of that is going to be explained and explored in the upcoming volume?
Tim Kring: Again, some of these symbols, they morph their meaning as we go a little bit. The helix is an example of that and clearly it’s been revealed now as the - as a part of the double helix of a DNA strand which plays into the themes of the show and was always intended to be revealed as that.
But there are deeper meanings to these - to both of the symbols of the eclipse and the helix that we have plans to reveal along the way. Its one of the very few things that we wanted to have as question marks that carried you through the series.
We set out to be a show that answered questions along the way in a very, kind of regular and quick way but we always wanted to have a few mysteries that carried through the length of the series that would change and morph just enough to keep you guessing as to what the new meanings would be.
And both eclipse and the helix are both two real major examples of that.
What are the tie-ins with the graphic novel and do you think the average viewer will be a little bit less behind if they just watch the series?
Tim Kring: Well the whole idea of the online extensions of the show was always to be additive to the show. In other words, if you just watched the show you would never have any - you could have a terrific experience and not really need to find out more.
But if you are inclined to dig a little deeper and to dive a little deeper into the mythology of the show, we have all of these various ways that you can do that on NBC.com.
And it becomes additive to your experience. It’s literally just - is the one or two, or three, or four more things that you will know that someone else may not know.
It just deepens your experience and your sense of fandom to the show. This year we have many of the same ideas that we’ve had for the last couple years in terms of the comic book and various online.
But we are adding a very exciting new element of these - of a web series that’s going to run concurrently with the show. We’ve done three of them so far. We have another pod of, I believe, six that’s going to come up in the fall, and then another pod of six or seven in the spring.
They will be storylines that run concurrently with these volumes that we’ll add to and fill out the whole idea of the mythology, and everything feeding the cannon of the show.
I think it’s a very exciting way for you to add to your experience as a fan.
Isn’t the second graphic novel coming out this fall?
Tim Kring: The next compiled volume? Yes, exactly. I’m not sure what that date is. I don’t know. But we compiled the first volume and made a very exciting, compilation of the comics with terrific cover art by (Jim Lee) and (Alex Roth).
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