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Climate conference clinches deal, greens critical
Dec 15, 2007, 14:50 GMT
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Older Talkback
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Okay, we got ourselves a 'road map.' Where can we get our hands on it so that we can read it? Or is this going to be a deep dark secret hidden from us plebeians? Given that this so-called 'road map' is going get into the checking account of every person in the world, I think it ought to be made public.
Anybody taking bets that Co2 emissions will increase next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that until we run short of fossil fuels ?
...after they failed to meet Kyoto protocols they seat years ago, they now cook up a new set to fail with!
God, these folks remind me of.....
Bush.
Oh, just for you news-puke's information, it is not JUST the Greens who are critical of this deal. There are a great many other people critical of it, few of whom you are willing to cover.
juat more lies in america .
the american dream lol what a joke .
Time magazine has weighed on this little confab in Bali:
www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1695145,00.html
So far, it is the best written description of what went on that I have read. This is NOT to say that I am endorsing its accuracy. It may well be completely wrong, but it is at least clearly written.
Here is a quote from the article:
'Lost a bit in the final drama was the Bali roadmap's most substantial achievement: putting forestry front and center for future climate change negotiations. Deforestation accounts for up to 20% of man-made global warming emissions, but the Kyoto Protocol has no mechanism to support the protection of forests. That will change, and eventually tropical nations could be rewarded for not cutting down their forests, providing a way to reduce carbon emissions'
I doubt if cutting of forests really contributes 20% of man-made global warming emissions, but someone has to keep the tree-huggers happy, right? What concerns me the most is that there is not a word about putting an end to water pollution. Polluting the water is the very real danger here, not deforestation. Trees are only a very minor contributor to the carbon sink and only a temporary one at that. The only permanent carbon sink we have is in the oceans and that job is carried out by pelagic organisms that are adversely affected by water pollution.
Unfortunately, 'environmentalists' steadfastly ignore these facts despite the numbers being readily available for perusal and edification on the World Wide Web. If you are truly worried about the atmosphere, your major concern at this point in time should be the condition of the water.
All of this leads me to believe that what many perceive as a 'secondary' economic-political agenda driving 'environmental activists' is actually their primary agenda. Solving the real problems we face does not support their true primary agenda so they very carefully ignore the real problems at hand. This is, in a word, EVIL!
AGW is BOGUS. If Greenpeace is there it's got to be wacko central.
Kyoto was a farce and thank goodness it was soundly defeated in congress.
This is the biggest redistribution of income from the developed world to finance more pollution in the Third world. Name one program that the UN has done right... Mosquito-borned diseases has killed more humans than Global Warming and yet the UN and all the so-called green, socialistic groups still would not let countries use DDT which in recent scientific studies showed that it was not as bad as it was made up to be and is the most effective means of killing mosquitos. In the 70's, wasnt there a big hoola that a new ice age was coming???
I'm still curious, what is this 'imagined' carbon offsets??? Are we going to get a bill from the UN for the carbon tax??
Everything with UN stamp has turned out for the worse..
Rwanda
Oil for Food programs
Dafur
Just to name a few..
Thankfully, an agreement has been reached. It seems every country and every little kid around the world have heard about the scientific research regarding climate change. However, you go to the U.S. it's like meeting people who have lived behind the moon. The American people believe they live in a democracy and they believe they have access to freedom of speech, yet they have to ask themselves, when did they last vote for someone who did not lie to them? When did they watch or read unopinionated news the last time? How come they know so little about world matters? A democracy only works, if the people know. At the moment, many Americans live in the dark and do not have access to unbiased news.
RE:'Thankfully, an agreement has been reached.'
I'd be cautious about what I was being grateful for if I were you, Fred.
RE:'It seems every country and every little kid around the world have heard about the scientific research regarding climate change.'
Yes, the left-handed wingnuts have done an excellent job of indoctrination.
RE:'However, you go to the U.S. it's like meeting people who have lived behind the moon.'
Sadly, most Americans spend very little time paying attention to public affairs and very often do take the newspuke's word for things without actually checking the facts. This is no surprise because the newspukes over-hype everything, even the local weather, and it is sometimes difficult to cross-check the facts.
RE:'The American people believe they live in a democracy and they believe they have access to freedom of speech, yet they have to ask themselves, when did they last vote for someone who did not lie to them?'
Bwahahahaha! When has anyone anywhere ever voted for someone who had not lied to them? If you are a European and are thinking that your politicians NEVER lie to you, you are living in La-La Land.
RE:'When did they watch or read unopinionated news the last time?'
When did you? I read papers from all over the world. That is one of the truly great things about the internet. You really can access news sources from everywhere in the world--save France. It's hard to find English translations of French news articles and op-ed pieces.
But, here is what I have discovered. The differences in news coverage world wide are exceedingly small. The large variations are almost always on matters of opinion, not facts. Nearly every reputable news source in the world has a strongly socialist bias, even most of the so-called 'right-wing' papers like the Daily Telegraph.
RE:'How come they know so little about world matters?'
Because most of us could care less, so we don't pay any attention to you, that's why. I will readily agree that this is both lazy and arrogant, but it has nothing to do with the quality of our news sources. News sources are universally bad the world over.
RE:'A democracy only works, if the people know. At the moment, many Americans live in the dark and do not have access to unbiased news.'
Now you're just bitching because most Americans reject your propaganda.
Oh, here ya go, Fred. American democracy evaluated by a Brit.
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/simon_jenkins/article30567 58.ece
So, was it the Americans, or the Russians who were the Bad Guys of Bali?
www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/12/16/eaclimate116 .xml
Yep. We are better off with taxes or fines than we are this phony-baloney 'Cap and Trade' BS.
www.eenews.net/tv/transcript/710
Thankfully, an agreement has been reached. It seems every country and every little kid around the world have heard about the scientific research regarding climate change.
______________________________________________
No, that's the problem. Those countries have not heard the truth that GW is cyclical. There are a LOT of dissenting scientists many after leaving the IPCC...why do you think they made the preliminary report? To coincide with Al Gore award and have the media focus on this distortion by the propagandists that wrote it.
So far, I have not been able to find a copy of the actual text of this 'Bali Road Map'. Has anyone reading these boards found one? If so, I would deeply appreciate it if you would post a link.
From what I have been able to find so far, this thing is going to amount to an enormous sheaf of taxes imposed on US citizenry. Need a new bridge? The Americans will pay for it. Need stack scrubbers on your power plants? The Americans will not only add it on to your plant without any of those nosy auditors watching you, but they will even give you free license to the technology.
I might be wrong about how insidious this is, but I can't know for sure until I find a copy of the blooming thing and until I DO find a copy I am going to assume the worst.
The retarded americans will doubtless continue to bleat about the sacrifices of being asked to give up their gas guzzling, energy wasting lifestyle, but Bali sent a clear message to their short sighted, self interested, semi-illerate president - as voiced by Papua New Guinea - 'if you can't lead, get out of the way'
Okay, I found it:
unfccc.int/meetings/cop_13/items/4049.php
There is long list of stuff here to read and it references other long lists of stuff to read. It is, as I suspected, a scheme aimed at choking the United States to death. The basic idea is that we will pick up the tab for everything. It ain't gonna fly, folks. There is a whole long list of reasons why it won't fly, chief among them is the complete lack of credibility of the United Nations in the US. The other one is that these schemes will be so rife with uncontrollable corruption that NOTHING will actually get done.
If the IPCC is right, and as far as I concerned that is still a very BIG if, then we need to start thinking about a completely different approach to solving this problem. I think that between the US and Russia we can fix it for you and can fix it in very short order. We'll just orbit enough balloons to attenuate the amount of sunlight falling on the Earth between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn.
Now it's the IPCC's turn. How much attenuation do you want, guys?
The supposed lack of credibility of the UN in the US is matched by the lack of credibility of the US in the UN and the rest of the world
No argument there, John. Now what?
Let's look at the 'wasteful' american energy statistics!
Coal - 5th per capita, iin the world.
Coal - 14th per GDP in the world
Oil - 17th per capita, in the world
Oil Imports, per capita, 6th in the world
Outside of oil, and we are not nearly at the top of the list for that, and despite the luddite marxists like you, John, we pretty much produce all of our other energy needs i.e. coal, natural gas, nuclear and hydro-thermal, domestically.
Our dollar produced per ton of coal is about twice what other nations are and it's domestic, so I'm a little dismayed at why we would not be entitled to our own energy to begin with.
I guess, John, that makes you just a-little-more-than-full-of-sh-t!
JohnDec 17th, 2007 - 14:49:36
The retarded americans will doubtless continue to bleat about the sacrifices of being asked to give up their gas guzzling, energy wasting lifestyle, but Bali sent a clear message to their short sighted, self interested, semi-illerate president - as voiced by Papua New Guinea - 'if you can't lead, get out of the way'
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Thank you John. You win the BS Award for 2007.
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