People News
Mel Gibson's Holy Family church member speaks out
By April MacIntyre Jun 6, 2009, 18:41 GMT
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Older Talkback
Can Catholics have their own private churches where they can browbeat the priest for hire into giving them the sacraments when they are in a state of flagrant, public, and serious mortal sin? What a deal. Anything, I guess, can be bought for money.
All the parishioners are a bunch of star-gazing acolytes who would barter the deepest principles of their religion for a little fake traditionalism a la Mel's sensational antics. They think they're better than the common herd of wife-swappers... well, now their patron is one of them and they turn into a bunch of cowering mice.
This seems to me to have the ring of truth to it... but the main premise bothers me. Are we to sit back and feel no shock or sorrow, when the man who is arguably the world's most prominent traditional Catholic causes great scandal and terrible harm by his stubborn and flagrant bad example?? Not just to his sons and family, but to the whole world.
I have read on various websites how priests are having to give counsel to their parishioners not to fall into depression and despair, because the man they upheld in their minds as a serious Catholic has had such an extreme, public and obstinate fall from grace. I pray for Mel that he repudiate his errors and that he come back to the bosom of the Church. I don't hate him; I am sickened and sad over what he has done.
We must judge, and at times severely, in order to protect ourselves and loved ones from falling into similar sins... this is what scandal is. It doesn't mean simply shock; it means that the scandalous act/s have weakened the faith and strength of others to resist evil. And this, regrettably, is what Mel has done.
So we resist his bad example, and so we speak against what he has done and continues to do. This might be gossip in some cases, but in others it is a defense against our being weakened by his bad example.
And no, I am not a member of Holy Family Chapel. I speak as a fellow traditional Catholic.
God bless you , Mel. Come back....
I agree with comments. The notion of having a patron with so much power that he can expel people from a church for what he calls 'gossiping,' after such a flagrant breach of moral conduct by any standard, is frightening. Maybe I don't know much about Traditional Catholicism, but in all the churches I know of, people aren't cast out for theft, much less 'gossip.' Unless the theft is of such magnitude they are required to serve a sentence. Was he cast out for driving while intoxicated, and endangering lives three years ago? Where does Mel's (a fellow parishioner with a bigger bank balance) power end in this church?
.. gossip is also viewed as a serious sin in the Church.'
You don't say! If gossip is a serious sin what does the church think about adultery and lying? Everything this man has said and claimed over the years has been nothing but a lie.
What a disappointing man he has turned out to be - a drunken, lying serial-adulterer who made a fortune out of selling Jesus Christ. He has brought nothing but shame upon himself, his family, his church and his beliefs.
And of course you're going to defend him because you're just another butt-kissing, cringing, obsequious sycophant that he's no doubt surrounded by. So play deaf and dumb and you will receive your invitation to stay on at the church.
There's a big difference between 'gossiping' and attending a church for the sole purpose of spying on a celebrity and selling the story to a tabloid.
Should Gibson also let his stalkers go to the chapel?
To Ordinary Catholic... (I think you really are a trad Catholic?) Re allowing stalkers to go to his chapel, of course not. But the problem with the statement (sounds like it came from a protective family member??) is that we are left with the impression that we should all bury our heads (and brains!) in the sand and have no reaction to his ... well maybe hypocrisy is a harsh word.. but something like that. I get the uncomfortable feeling his attitude is 'Do as I say, don't do as I do' and that just doesn't fly.
Has he forgottem he made TPOTC????!!!! People looked up to him, and how do you think they should feel after seeing him go on Leno and defend his fathering of a child outside marriage?! No embarassment, no apparent shame! This is AWFUL.
Fraudulent, 'Maybe I don't know much about Traditional Catholicism, but in all the churches I know of, people aren't cast out for theft, much less 'gossip.''
No one is being cast out for the sin of gossip. A person was asked to leave for stalking a celebrity and selling exaggerated stories to a tabloid. An obsessed, angry fan shouldn't go the same church as her celebrity target. That's just common sense.
Blind sheeple who are Melstruck bug me. I am also a long time chapel member, and was also there. While there was a definite spin on it, Mel was indeed very angry and pacing and it would have been much better if he hadn't done it. It's always about the drama there. It was the priest's place to reprimand us not his but the chapel is not priest run but Mel and Hutton run. What they say goes and that is that. The old timers had nothing to do with leaks but he threatened to make it private which shuts it down for most of us in reality. In my opinion it has turned into a celebrity cult, not just a place to find the true Mass like it used to be. Having to swallow Gibsonite theology to stay there isn't healthy or true Catholicism. The priests are bought and paid for and turn a blind eye to the elephants in the room. Why is it considered 'gossip' when Mel himself announced Oksana was pregnant, showing no shame and even joking about it on Leno? To think of what Mel and his Dad have said about the pope, but he turns into a whiner when people dis him, poor baby.
Chapel members aren't allowed to speak or to show normal shock and outrage at what is considered horrific behavior to most Catholics without being accused of being the enemy. He should keep his sins to himself like he used to and please leave the rest of us out of it. This is too weird and I'm leaving
Trad Catholic, I've never even been to a Latin mass.
I think you're commenting on 2 separate issues. The first is the possible merit of STRANGERS admonishing a famous layman who is causing scandal, but I don't think this relates to the incident in Gibson's chapel. The second issue is the safety/privacy concerns for the Gibson family because of the weirdos, starf***ers, and leeches who seek him out.
P.S. About the Leno interview, as a Catholic you should know that Gibson's sin is out of wedlock sex, not the conception of an illegitimate child. While Gibson didn't express shame for the adultery, he didn't defend it either.
An obsessed, angry fan shouldn't go the same church as her celebrity target. That's just common sense ------------
You're absolutely right. No they shouldn't - only ethically challenged and blindly supportive fans ought to go to the same church as their morally degenerate narcissistic celebrity target. After all, hypocrites of a feather must always flock together.
I wish TPOTC had been made by anyone other than Mel Gibson.
ordinary Catholic, what are you, a professional apologist for Mel Gibson?
I hope it's OK to discuss two issues in one post?
And why shouldn't STRANGERS admonish a FAMOUS PUBLIC figure who has SCANDALIZED the majority of the Catholic world??? Must we know him personally? No, of course not.
It has everything to do with the incident at Holy Family Chapel. He didn't like the heat of upset Catholics, so he lashed back. Not pretty.
The safety issue you keep raising is a total red herring. I don't believe personal harm is intended to Mel and his family, unless by a crazed fan, and he does have security to deal with that, no? If you want to talk about harm to his family... there is physical danger and spiritual danger. He has single handedly plunged his family into grave spiritual danger due to his obstinate, scandalous behaviour. It would be one thing if he had an oops monent; but he has flaunted his adulterous relationship without shame to the whole world, right down to a red carpet appearance with public displays of physical affection. HE brought his sins into the public arena.
Gibson's sin is ADULTERY. He should pro-actively CONDEMN it as he gave public scandal. The responsibilities of a figure in the public eye are far more stringent than that of an average person. He gave scandal and gives scandal and he can't decide he should be treated like Joe Shmo (my apologies to all the nice Joes out there) as though his actions aren't constantly being observed on a global scale.
Sam, you write 'Chapel members aren't allowed to speak or to show normal shock and outrage at what is considered horrific behavior to most Catholics without being accused of being the enemy.'
Sorry, but this is a hysterical rationalization for gossip. Mel Gibson's confessor should admonish him, but what good does it for either his soul or yours to spread rumors about his marriage or affair? Will you persuade him to leave his girlfriend by denouncing him at church as an adulterer? Doubtful. Remove the plank from your own eye first.
The reason that Gibson isn't 'keep[ing] his sins to himself like he used to' is because he is going to be a father again. The only other choice available for him is to push for an abortion or to quietly pay off the mother for her silence and then not raise his new child as his own. Clearly, his responsibility as a Catholic is to acknowledge the child.
Huh? Dear Ordinary Catholic, aka Gibson family member doing damage control: I didn't denounce him. He denounced himself. You must have missed Leno.
I didn't do anything but go to Mass and ended up being part of an embarrassing public spectacle, completely inappropriate for those of us who like to remain inside and pray. I didn't sign on for this. Normal 'ordinary Catholics' want nothing to do with his shame and I can only imagine what the bishop thought. He gives us all a bad name and so do the sycophants like you. I'm loving the common sense of the other comments. As for his safety, there is security but he seems to prefer the drama of taking matters into his own hands.
Revel, the Church is a hospital for sinners.
Trad Catholic, your post exemplifies the stereotype of Traditionalist Catholics being judgmental and uncharitable.
Sam, you expressed what I have been thinking all along; ordinary Catholic is no doubt a Gibson family member. So much for truthfulness... never been to a Latin Mass, eh?
It has of course occurred to me that Mel Gibson is concerned first and foremost with making sure his child is brought safely into the world... is that gold digger threatening abortion? (How could he have been so blind to a **** like her?) Or extorting money already? That would not be surprising either. I am guessing he can't be liking it that in the course of less than 10 days she has filed two paltry lawsuits and is going to do a story and photo-shoot for a women's magazine. Sounds like paradise is over.
So he has made his bed of leaves, and has to lie in it. Why not ackowledege his culpability and go from there? Why is it necesary to act so arrogantly? It is the continued hard headed obstinacy that causes the worst scandal. Everyone knows that people make mistakes; I don't think this issue would have blown up the way it has, if Gibson had been upfront with his shame, and then it would have died down eventually. But the path he has chosen is wreaking havoc.
When all is said and done, we all, including Mel Gibson, are left with just our naked souls before God.
Sam,
So now I must be related to Mel Gibson to protest all this self-righteous posturing coming from traditionalist Catholics? I'm not related to the man, nor have I ever met him.
And now you are contradicting yourself. First, you write that Gibson showed no shame on Leno, and later you wrote that he denounced himself. (Unless by 'denounce himself' you mean tell the truth about his girlfriend's pregnancy instead of terminating or covering it up and lying.) You also insist that you didn't denounce Gibson yourself, yet earlier you whined about not being 'allowed to speak or to show normal shock and outrage at what is considered horrific behavior to most Catholics without being accused of being the enemy.'
The sense I get from your posts is that your grip with Gibson isn't that he committed adultery in the first place, it's that he was sloppy enough get his mistress pregnant, which forced the mess to become public and embarrass good traditional Catholics like yourself.
ordinary Catholic said:
'Trad Catholic, your post exemplifies the stereotype of Traditionalist Catholics being judgmental and uncharitable.'
St Teresa said: 'He who loves, hates; and he who hates, fights!'
I am fighting the terrible example given by one of the most famous Catholic layman in the world. He is both famous and now sadly, infamous by his own actions. I do pray for him, I am not hateful.
You, ordinary Catholic, speak in sophistries; you twist the right interpretation of Catholic mores; you attempt to mitigate and neutralize the good, healthy reaction of Catholics who are opposed to the bad example which Gibson is giving.
You're right. I had quite forgotten that fact. The church is supposed to be a hospital. But there are times when quarantining the infected becomes necessary in order to preserve the rest. A little leaven leavens the whole lump scripture says. A little rot will rot the lot, in time. And scripture also tells us that an 'elder' ought to be 'above reproach, and the husband of one wife'. This church is OWNED (seemingly in every possible way) by a man who, whilst not only practicing adultery, has the nerve to parade his pregnant mistress to the world without one iota of public shame - shame towards his God and his family. Instead of humility he displays peeved hurt - wounded pride!
And you expect anyone with any conscience before God to turn a blind eye to his selfish, selfish behaviour. Adultery is not a sickness like alcoholism - it's a choice - a selfish, self-centred choice.
As for his child out of wedlock. From what I see from the internet, this will not be Mel's first 'bastard' child. We are led to believe he has (possibly at the very least) two others.
Scripture tells us that pride always comes before a fall. I think Mel's full of it. Though God had promised to forgive if we humble ourselves before Him,admit fault and pray. There's always hope and I'm still hoping and praying for him.
WOW THATS GETTIGN NASTY!
I am not catholic nor will i ever go in a church full as it is of hypocrite.
Look at htis calign themselves trad catho and very catho and less catho, darn! do you beleive or do oyu not beleive?
who gives a flying f. about the rest? I dont!
vatican 1 or 2 who cares?
The vatican is dead since they burned the templat master Jeacques de Molay for fianncial reasons..
There cant be a churhc of God there ever since. And they never show remorse for it. So its doen with it.
Now about sam and Georgessss.
greate of oyu to speak out loud, i beleive wha toyu say is true, now the question remain of who that angry lady was and if she was oksana as suggested by another sam at celbitchy, and told as untrue by a 'sammy' later on at the same place..
Now htis. Is that woman denying that any of this hapeend lying?
was she paid by the church to do so or send by mel Gibson?
Oh mine.
For me to see are all the news planted in the radar online and the national nequierer and People magazine since august 2008, doen by oksana.
first only pictures and when her ID wa sout, long articles.
Sh eis tryign to control thmedia and in dping os to ocntrol the public opinion.
Who else than her had photographers friends form he rwork as modl that sh ecould contact and stage ehrself coming in an dout MG trailer? posign in fornt of the cam totaly in Boston set both in august and novmeebr 2008.
Who else had inside info form Mel that he had a feud with his wife who threatened hom of divorce at thankgiving , but oksana? ANd who sold hte story ot the national enquierer who gave a very bad image of Robyn in an article that pushed the divorce..
oksana did that.
HSe knew of robyn threats ot mel if she was seen again near his trailer and she staged her second apperance there in novemebr sold ot .. radar online agian. and in march again to radar online the pics of her and MG on the beach.. none of them showing her own face which is very weird.
taken the 4. of march those pics only show up hte 15th of march, thats 10 days.. the time for her ot coem bacl fofrm guanacaste acknioledge the pics and put the story that goes with it as ' a witness' and leave sherman oaks fast.. she knew that robyn will file for divorce.
she planted the story there alos in the national enquier that hrey were separated since 3 years!
she staged it all.
every week for 5 weeks, she has planted 2 new stories, in 2 mag all of them of very persoanl character.
by dopign os she control it. the soties are characterised by their sources or lack of it 'sources say, friend of oksana frend of MG' but its her alone behind it with her signature making MG looks like a fool and her like a saint.
the god mum nad good wife.
so she doesnt live with MG but thats her own choice and she wants Mle into rehab 'or else' and he wil do so because 2he loves her a lot and will od al for her' yeah. we dont ebelive that.
And the DNA test Its not MG who wants it but 'pressure form friends and family and churhc goers on him!' becasue 'he love her so much'.. oh mine! and she tlak of a DNA test AFTER the child is born thus such a paternitty test can be done after 10 weeks already and an aminiotic test on the 5th month.
But sh eneed to looks bankable for a few more months for th elawyers and the women magazins
Revel, I have no wish to defend Gibson's support of an independent chapel or his lack of public shame. However, I do think it would be different if the woman wasn't carrying his child.
'Adultery is not a sickness like alcoholism - it's a choice - a selfish, self-centred choice.'
Adultery may by a selfish choice, but addicts struggle with sexual addictions as well as alcohol dependencies. Risky sexual behavior is often found in alcoholics, not to mention those with bi-polar disorder. I'm not trying to excuse Gibson's actions by saying that 'he's sick' or 'he can't help it,' but people can carry unequal culpability for the same sins. Only God can judge.
'As for his child out of wedlock. From what I see from the internet, this will not be Mel's first 'bastard' child. We are led to believe he has (possibly at the very least) two others.'
Woah now, that's calumny. Mel Gibson has only been accused of fathering one other child out of wedlock, Carmel Sloane.
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