People News
Marie Osmond bucks Mormon Church teachings, proud of Gay daughter
By April MacIntyre May 21, 2009, 14:12 GMT
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It is not 'bucking' the Mormon Church to love your daughter. Nothing in Mormon teaching would encourage anything less. Mormons are not taught to hate gays or anyone else, and indeed hating anyone is entirely contrary to the teachings of the church. Mormons also do not believe in drinking beer or coffee, or in smoking, or in heterosexual couples living together out of wedlock, but do not hate anyone for those things.
Is there any church out there that would teach parents not to love their children? Hard to imagine that.
The Mormon church funded the media war against prop 8 in California, and has always been outspoken and negative about gays and their lifestyles. Bravo to Marie for bucking that.
The Mormon church did not 'fund a war' regarding proposition 8. What the Mormon church did was support the right for marriage between a man and woman. There is a difference between supporting what you believe in and attacking others. The Mormon church put out positive messages for traditional marriage. There was no hatred toward gays or their beliefs. Those who then after the vote called Mormon's names, vandalized their buildings and temples, spewed hatred towards them,etc..... Those were the individuals and groups that promoted a war. The response from the Mormons -- no violence, no name calling, no grafitti, ...... nothing. But they will continue to support causes they believe in. They also give everyone else in this free country of the USA the right to support what they believe in.
I think the church's main position is to protect itself within the 1st Amendment, which is a specific Constitutional right.
If there was a counter proposition to Prop 8 that had specific language reinforcing religious protections, such as allowing a church to refuse marriage services or reserve the right of excommunication, I probably wouldn't voted for the counter proposition and I'm Mormon.
There is no intellectually honest religious argument against same sex marriage. However there currently is a 'social' one and that is protecting religion from litigation.
Unfortunately the gay activists haven't proved themselves to respect the 1st Amendment when religion is involved and frequently use the court system to usurp voters.
Maybe someone outside the gay activists should draft such a measure for them?
If it's only about the word marriage then they should have no problem assuring the rest of the population that that is all they want by specifically stating such in their legislative proposals.
Are these children Marie Osmond's natural children or are they adopted? I think Marie is craving publicity!!After all she don't seem to live by beliefs in which she was raised being divorced 2or 3 times! Her church doesn't teach that is o.k. either!
I have met Marie a few time and she is a genuine person who, through experiences of her own and overcoming several trials, has come to know what it can be like to be on the opposite end of love. She is a smart lady and has more common sense than anyone in her family. Of course she loves her daughter but she also supports her....I grew up in a strict Mormon family (3 brothers and a sister) I am gay and recently came out. One of my brothers was gay and was ashamed because it is not what the Mormons teacha as normal behavior. He got married had kids, his wife found out about it and he ended up killing himself. Nice of the Mormon Church to make gays feel like they are second class. I came very close to killing myself also. The Church in its infinite wisdom decided they don't want me in their midst anymore because I told a tribunal that I was not about to stop having sex with my partner and they excommunicated me. Never have I felt so good and comfortable in my life. I am out of a church that murders (Yes I blame the church for my brothers death and 1000's of others) its members and thinks that it is okay. continues to preach hate (Yeah they hide behind hate the sin, love the sinner) funny but when I came out 95% of the members quit talking to me. It is a hate filled church. I served a mission for that church, prayed day and night, filled church callings, and everything was just fine as long as they didn't know I was gay, as soon as I was out it was so long Charlie we don't want anything to do with you!!!!!
Every one should love there children right or wrong. Homosexuality along with other sins is wrong.
I do support what happened in CT, and prob will happen in NH, where marriage equality for gay people will include specific language insuring churches and their employees and directly associated religious based organizations are exempted from any nuisance lawsuits etc re refusing to be involved in gay marriage ceremonies.
But let's focus on the Mormon church. They think that they have the right to consign gay people to a life of loneliness, and if their gay people violate that church precept, they get thrown out of their whole family, and are made into a pariah.
All in the name of God.
If that isn't pure religious fanaticism and hatred, I don't know what else is. Poisoning a family so they throw out their own children. Which happens every day. Kids for their 18th birthday finding their packed bags on the front lawn, and being told to get lost forever.
They claim they are defending 'traditional marriage'. The same 'traditional marriage' that didn't let Blacks legally marry - fixed in 1867. They didn't want women to vote until that was fixed in 1920. And didn't allow inter-racial marriage in many states, until that was overthrown in 1968. And the same mentality that had outlawed condoms, etc until about 1920.
This churches contributions to the world include the poisoning of peoples minds against a minority. The amazing thing is how they get people so wrapped up in their beliefs that they can't see straight, or gay.
It is all about imposition of religious control and dictatorship over people's minds.
Not terribly different then the desires of the maniac religious people who gave us 9/11. Just done so much more smoothly. They are master psychologists, using fear, insurance policies of life after death, even elements of hypnotism etc to gain pure power and wealth at the expense of some victim group.
And what is totally amazing is how they get so buried into peoples mentalities - the Mormons as an example - that they forget that they were hunted down and murdered hardly more then 100 years ago for their own beliefs. One would think people would learn.
The question we should be debating is the right of religions to impose their ideas on others under our civil laws.
And the 'religious freedom' argument is a red herring. Churches cannot, in the business of the church, be forced to perform a marriage ceremony against their beliefs.
But they think they can impose their beliefs on others through our civil marriage law structure, which has nothing to do with religion, except sharing of the word marriage.
The Mormon God certainly doesn't love his gay children. My husband and I met a man who was so obviously gay that even I could tell. He worked and lived in a motel in CA as the resident manager.
He was a perfectly decent individual. It was obvious that he knew we knew (whew, tongue twister) he was gay.
But in trying to bring up the subject, his actions said one thing, but his words were those of total avoidance.
Reading between the lines, it was obvious that he feared he would be not only living alone, as he apparently did, but would would become a pariah to his family.
This is Love?
The same kind of Love from my ex church that almost caused the suicide of my gay brother, via one of their forced conversion to heterosexuality programs. We were lucky on that one.
I wonder what straight people would think if one day (I realize it will never happen) gays out numbered straights. The gays decide that straight people should not be able to get married and vote and pass a law outlawing hetrosexual marriage. Not a pleasant thought when the shoe is on the other foot is it?
'What the Mormon church did was support the right for marriage between a man and woman'
So what does that have to do with the rights for another group of people to receiving the legal benefits of marriage under civil law?
Amazing how the word 'Love' in some conservative churches is actually a synonym for 'hatred' of those with different views and feelings.
But that is what it is all about. 'Charged words' that sound innocuous to the average reader / listener, but for the conservative believers bring up all the religious based hatreds emotional feelings.
Just as the words 'Jew' and [n-word] did for other minority groups.
This world was never supposed to be the perfect place - the perfect place will come for most people when they breathe their last breath on earth.
And churches aren't perfect as well.
Bravo to Marie for speaking her own mind. Over its nearly 180 years, the church has gone through numerous massive changes and upheavals. One constant is what Marie has expressed: Christ embodies love, and Mormons are taught to follow Christ.
After reaching Utah, the church did not lead the way in embracing civil rights for blacks, but it evolved as its members and leaders eventually found a higher road than bigotry. This issue will follow the same course, over time. Marie's love for her daughter puts her ahead of the curve.
As for the comment that Marie hasn't followed the teachings of the church because she's divorced (and whatnot)...I wouldn't be so quick to cast stones. Marie has had to navigate a challenging life in the public eye. Few of us would do as well.
of course people are going to love their children - maybe not particularly what they do, but they will love the person.
Of course people are going to love their children....Is that why so many Mormon (and other) families want nothing to do with them when they come out to them? Don't pretend you know what you are talking about when it hasn't happened to you!!!!
bravo for the brave WOMEN who stand up to MALE run Churches like Carla Bruni against the archaic and DANGEROUS Catholic stance on birth control in AIDS ravaged Africa
and now Marie Osmond has made a powerful statement to support and LOVE her child regardless of who she loves.
Bravo bravo to the strong women of this world!
Churches are full of hypocrites and liars.
The mormons on this forum really elevate passive aggressiveness into an art form.
'What the Mormon church did was support the right for marriage between a man and woman.'
'There was no hatred toward gays or their beliefs.'
Oh please.
In the words of Judge Judy: 'Don't pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.'
Don't talk about love and supporting rights and happiness and then bankroll the removal of rights and the limiting of happiness from thousands of couples of which I am one.
No matter how you want to dress it up or sugarcoat it, this fact remains: the mormon church used their money to ensure that gay couples would not be able to be legally marry in the state of California. There is no other outcome they could have logically anticipated from their contributions. To think otherwise is psychotic.
It's like selling toothpaste by saying 'our toothpaste won't cause your teeth to fall out.' Well what a nice thing to say about your toothpaste.
You can't say 'Hererosexual Marriage is viewed as holy in the eyes of god' without implying that gay marriage causes your teeth to fall out, if you catch my drift. Why don't you just live the way you want to live and let others do the same?
If you are mormon, please stop this endless cycle of denial and live up to the fact of what you and your church ACTUALLY did. You spent over 20 million dollars to ensure that couples in love would not have their union recognized as marriage in the state of California. Trust me, I was there, I am one of the victims.
Just because you say something with a smile doesn't mean you are a nice person. Especially if the essence of what you are saying is 'I prefer my way of living to yours. So I am going to help mold society in such a way that makes my lifestyle easy and yours more difficult.'
Just leave us alone and maybe someday we can look past all of this and appreciate the beauty of all the ridiculous nonsense your cult purports.
I'm glad Marie Osmond loves her daughter. I would love any child of mine who was gay/lesbian. Does that mean I am 'bucking' the Mormon Church? The Church advocates love for everyone regardless of their lifestyle choices. Would Jesus of Nazareth ascribe to any other belief? The assertion that Mormons are bigots and full of hatred is the exact opposite of the truth. If you use the argument that simply because mormons do not agree with homosexuality based on their religion, they are bigots then you are bigots for for discriminating against the mormon religion based on your sexuality.
I understand Alan and others have had a hard time. I do not know what kinds of mormons you have met, but it seems a strange gang if they do not love you and treat you well just because you are gay. I must say with absolute confidence, no person in church are allowed to treat any other bad because of their sexuality. That is a FACT. Now if they do, it does show they are way behind the standards expected of them!!They need disciplining!!
It is possible to fail for one individual now and then and to raise opinions that are hurtful to the gay/lesbian. Please remember this that people in general develop very slow, in fact in the mormon church you see many breaking our common rules for example...by being obese simply from overeating and soaking in coca cola, wich certainly is not in our scriptures,containing many bad components, including caffein. All are at different levels and are given time to develop to a certain degree at their own pace. Some things are 100% to be accepted without fail..living ouside of wedlock means celibacy for all! Simple and clear. We constantly fail there too, but always there is a way to improve and gain balance again through Christs..again as we believe. To be forgiven if you like. With marriage it is also clear,only between man and woman. All other legal arrangements, visits as mentionned and inheritance can and should be sorted, and the church would support all that. Only those areas of marriage as a standard family unit is protected. There cannot be anything wrong with that..it is clear in the scriptures, but does not prevent lawyers for detailing an correcting every other possible unrighteousness and inequality when it comes to civil rights outside of the actual marriage terminology and related to rights to have children. Civil partners may still adopt as singles can, however, it will not be seen as a regular marriage. The church would not support gays to adopt for many reasons.However, many are raised by singles in the church everywhere as men, also in church, far too often shun their responsibility as parent and spouses. I think one also believe that woman in general are safer to raise a child alone after all..With all the exceptions in the world that I have seen, I must say evidence is overwhelming to support that fact. I speak with somewhat authority..I have been single with children far tooo much! And I have met many many in this situation.I does seem very clear to me from this experience that in general men are more comfortable with stress at work over time than stress coming from having sole responsibility for a child. Sure there are irresponsible women, but I have seen overwhelmingly evidence of irresponsible men when it coems to participating in childhood rearing. Even among the professed super dads!! They are great for a lot of fun with children, generally I think they are happy it is not them staying at home all day. If you then say ..we do not need to stay home all day..I will say I think in periods one really do. Maybe not so much in countries where work finishes at three in the afternoon or even earlier!Certainly where work like in US finishes late and where holidays do not exist as we know it in Europe.10 days versus 40-50. There are special training learnt from being a woman in most cases and also from being a man. Certainly kids need the father figure desperately in our days, but smaller children specially need the mother more, also for obvious reasons. She can feed and provide comfort, allergy saving products and stronger bodies. This is from nature. With a lesbian or gay it is not that original balance.I am sure many would do an excellent job and be very strong parents,and many also much better than the man-woman unit, however, our church does simply follow the clear family structure in the scriptures as they believe is from God. They would not even dare to question God on this particular issue of marriage.They do not need to understand. Not everything is taught fully at the time given.. we have for example had a ban on drinking and all other stimulants since before middle last century.
It has benefited followers. Now this goes for all beliefs..you cannot expect any belief to adapt to something they believe is not from God, when they absolutely find evidence for their belief. There is not one person in the church that is excused for treating a single or a gay person bad. They may need sometime to adapt after a friend come out, but they not to treat him bad, he/she can hol dall positions in church apart from those clearly involving a typical family unit already in place. I cannot understand why this is so diffucult to get.It is basically a terminology change and separating all legal questions from that of having family with children etc. This is where the issues lie. I for one think children should be taught the simple norm as young, it is more than enough on their plate to handle, I know this. Then I think at a much later stage they must learn about the gay sexuality and also other different types of deviation from standard fam. I therefore think the issues that will have to be raised in a gay family at a much earlier stage ..maybe not from them but friends or even bad people, will be difficult for children and for some more than others. I love gays and especially the men!! and I do feel sorry for them in church as I realise their struggles and sacrifices,as we approach heaven I for one think they must be in for a real treat after all those hard..but inevitable years. All are then promised a life which will be in such a balance they will be able to achieve all things not done here. I feel sorry also for all singles in the church for whatever reason.It is a hard life no doubt, but who am I to correct God's setup. Or understand future. For sure there is more to this life also than sex, and all those qualities are under full development, making lovely people. I am sorry if you think I am an idiot of some kind. I am not. I have some gay friends and they are welcomed in church whether they are gay or not. If I see a gay treated in any way bad in church, I tell you I will not wait, I will immediately report the incident to leaders and will follow up to see the person dealt with. If it continued a peson would eventually loose all his rights in the church for his unacceptable behaviour. Please understand we only follow the God which we think we understand somewhat and there are nothing else we can do. These are MY opinions. I LOVE GAYS AS INDIVUDALS
Alan sounds a little bitter - maybe some therapy is needed. And my statement about people loving their children but maybe not what they do was 'MY view'. I didn't say it was the gospel.
Good Heavens! Quit trying to force everything into a political adgenda. My son was a drug addict. Does that mean I support prescription drug addiction? NO. Does that mean I loved my son any less? Absolutely Not! As parents, the bad choices our children make are heartbreaking because we love them and can see the pitfalls and pain that lie ahead... so, we try and warn them. That's our duty. My son died of an overdose two months ago. Did my pleas for him to stop make me a bigot...or a loving parent? We have a loving parent in Heaven. We are told He is perfect. How much more would He try and lead us down the path to happiness. Stop pointing fingers and placing blame. Better yourself. Pick up the scriptures, study them, make Christ your example. Try a little love.
YouTube Video: 'Another victim of prescription drug abuse'
The Mormon church did not fund Proposition 8. They spoke against gay marriage. Most 'Mormon' money was donated by individuals. The Mormon church makes up about 2% of the California population. The Mormon church is not the only church advocating against gay marriage. I was raised Mormon. The Mormon church teaches against sex outside of marriage. Osmond's daughter is not following this teaching. For the person who talked about the Mormon church not allowing women to vote until passed by the nation, women in Utah were given the right to vote before women in other states, including California. As for the changes the Mormon church has experienced over the years, check out the Catholic church's past. They were instrumental in the deaths of thousands of non-believers and the destruction of many documents.
Steve Kay I'm not sure where you get your facts from about the Mormon Church, but you're re-writing history to fit your statement.
First off, I don't know of any LDS families that have a gay child and have kicked them out of their family just for being gay. I do know of one that told their son to move out after molesting a sibling. But even after that, they continued to show love and forgiveness towards him and tried to get him the help he needed to not repeat pedifiliac behavior.
You mention that the Mormon Church didn't give women the right to vote until 1920. Well, that was actually when the 20th amendment to the US constitution was added. Before Utah was a state, women had the right to vote. But in order to join the Union, that right was taken away so that they could be in compliance with the US government.
But Steve, you're not alone. This article was trying to make Marie Osmond look like she was in defiance against the LDS Church for saying she loved her lesbian daughter and that she wasn't going to stop loving her or being pleased with all her great attributes. As an active member of the LDS Church, I only see Marie as living by the teachings of the Church.
I'm sure you then ask then why would so many members of that church act so vocally against same sex marriage. It's because doctrinally marriage in the LDS faith is a covenant between a man and a woman and God. For an LDS person, temple marriage betwen a man and a woman is what allows them to enter into the highest degree in heaven. There would never be a temple marriage between two people of the same sex because from the LDS perspective it is doctrinally incorrect.
Now does that mean that it's a sin for people of the same sex to fall in love? Well, that's not the point. If a gay couple wants to be together I don't think the Church from the general leadership would stop an alternative as long as it's not defined as a marriage. A civil contract between two people isn't eternally binding because civil authority only extends to this world.
As far as prop 8 went, the church was trying to maintain that distinction so as to not confuse the original intent of their definition of marriage. Many may not agree with this definition, but to persecute them from upholding those beliefs and saying that they hate gays, is true religious bigotry.
I'm so sick and tired of the controversial issue 'gay marriage', for heaven sakes! there are more important issues to resolve in our almost in recesion Country, plus, I don't like that people out of their frustatios, ignorance or anger attack other people, organizations and special the Mormon Church, don't make the church responsable for your own mistakes, the church doesn't teaches suicide, heatres or any or those stupid, ignorant people choices made, none of the church members incluiding the Authorities hate or discriminate people because of their preferences, the church doesn't make a judgment, we all mormons don't hate anybody, we may don't like their life style, but we still love them and the most important, we pray for them.
Marie Osmond or any parent have all the right to love and support their children, right or wrong, they will not be a good parents if they do the opposite, she might be raced in a mormon family, but she have choosen what she wants to be, and still we like and love her.
Probably she maybe uses the same words that I do to describe myself, I'm not the best but, I'm a mormon tring to follow the Savior footprints, and one and only Comandment He gaves 'Love one another as much as I love you',
and this is also the principal teaching of the church.
Regarding the controversial 'gay marriage' issue, please give a breake, since the begining of the creation regardless what book you read,(Universal History, Bible, Book of Mormon, etc. always had been male and female, even with the animals, when have you seen a male dog having puppies? or when have you seen a female dog get pregnant another female dog? that simple.
Do something for your comunity, Country, family and the most important, do something for yourself, instead to be waisting time with this nonsense and over and over issue.
I don't understand why religion even enters into civil rights issues. Do we really want religion telling us how to run our country? Comments that are coming from conservative women especially make me really scratch my head and make me wonder if they even have a brain. If you want to follow the biblical route to living, like so many of you say you do, then you ought to read the book again. You women wouldn't have any rights to speak of if it weren't for those darn liberals who want progress and change. If you left it to the bible or men, you would just be barefoot and pregnant and probably stoned to death by now.
Stop being idiots and fight for the rights of others if you want to keep the rights that you seem to feel entitled to.
On the question of Prop 8 and the idea that the majority should vote on the minority, again what idiotic thinking. Let me put this idea forward: I don't think we should let fat people get married. Simply, fat people who get married will have fat children and that's abuse of children. Shouldn't we protect those children? Bad genetics shouldn't be allowed to move forward, we need to protect families and children. No fat people should get married! let's put forward a Prop on that. Hey and then while we do that, why don't we bar retarded, handicapped, ugly, short, blue-eyed people or any other group we don't like?
Now doesn't that sound stupid and unfair? Just because many people don't like a group, does that mean we should make laws against what they can and cannot do in their own personal lives, where it doesn't effect anyone but themselves?
I thought that conservatives wanted government out of their lives? Doesn't sound like it to me.
Just because someone who belongs to a church that has rank in the church
gives an opion. no more weight should be put other then what is said. okay
Marie Osmond has a gay daughter. do i think this person should be allowed to get married in to the church no or any church for that matteronce we
start doing gay marriages in our churched then it will be alright to go
out and gamble and have sex with anyone includeing kids. we can also go
out and cheat and steal and everything else. of course i my self would not
do these things but other will look at it that way. this is what they would say. hey if Maries Osmonds daughter can get married in a church then
I can go ahead and do what I want.I recall a story being told once about
how jesus was sent in to hell and the devil tempted jesus 3 times and
jesus rebuked him 3 times and said no.It seems to me if gay people are being tempted by the devil they should rebuke him. If nuns can take a vow
I don;t see how for the life of me people can not do it.to me it all about faith and that is it.If same sex couple want to get married it should be in a court room not in a church. the marriage in a church would
be like slaping the face of god if it took place in a church.And to tell
you the truth I am not wanting to slap the face of god. i do agree with
Marie on one thing and that is love a sinner but do not give them the keys to your church and let the devil by having one of these marriages in the church.Because if this happen nothing on gods green earth is a sin.and
the devil can come into any church with open arms. just because she is
Marie Osmond doed not make her right in saying her church is wrong. if I
remember right the bible was written over 2000 yars ago not in 1959 her
opion is just that and that is all. i do not think churches shoud throw
or tear out pages from the bible just because one person thinks it is not
the way it should be.I did not wite ths to hurt anyone only give the facts
it saids it in the bible that god does not want men with men and women
with women. and don't give me that crap thy shall not judge.if that is going to be the case we can not judge killers or rapist and we do.
Instead of sticking it out with the LDS church whose moral and religious teachings oppose homosexuality, perhaps gays should find another religion that justifies and suits their homosexuality. Of the multifarious churches that are all professing to be of God, why should a gay Mormon remain in the LDS church, knowing that he cannot keep himself celibate and cannot uncontrollably abstain from expressing his sexuality with his gay partner?
One time I attended a church that accepts homosexuals and justifies homosexuality using the Bible as the basis of their belief. They have their sacrament meeting too except that they served colored cookies that tasted like wafers, and ice cold champagne. They have speakers who talk on the love affair of David and Jonathan. Another speaker testified that he got blessed when he came out and enjoyed the companionship of his gay partner Steve. After singing a hymn similar to the tune of Billie Jeans, they clapped their hands. Soon after the meeting, they held a get-together party where they sang, danced, and served hotdogs and donuts. There was some ice cream, too. It was fun! Some of my gay friends said they felt the presence of the Holy Spirit.
Instead of asking a dialogue with the LDS church, the gays should hold a convention and discuss options and resolutions to their problems. They might consider organizing a religious congregation too where they can solemnize their gay marriages, and assert their religious freedom similar to that religious group whose members don't salute the flag or join the military. By spearheading this, there will come a time when there is a gay church network similar to the Mormon Church.
I'm sure my Mormon and non-Mormon gay friends and their sympathizers will join the gay church. Maybe even Marie Osmond and her daughter will leave the LDS church to join the gay church, too! Many gay celebrities, including priests and ministers, will support the gay church.
So gay brothers and sisters, what are we waiting for?
The only thing that troubles gay Mormons is that the LDS church prohibits them from expressing their sexuality with their partners, although not majority of them really want to have gay marriage. They can still obey the word of wisdom, the law of tithing, the sabbath law, etc.
May I suggest that if ever gays succeed in organizing a church of their own, please adopt a dress code. In the gay church that I attended, I thought I was in a fashion show. Maybe, the gay church can still maintain modesty in dress and speech, for the spirit of the Lord does not always thrive with man most specifically if a gay brother or sister is too vain.
Remember also that on the sabbath day, too much laughter is a sin!
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