People News
By Stone Martindale May 11, 2007, 14:53 GMT
Mitt Romney against 'Big Love'
And Also
Latest Headlines in People
- 1. Florence Welch's US fears
- 2. Russell Crowe besotted by bow
- 3. Fantasy actor Zac Efron
- 4. Taio Cruz would work with Brown
- 5. Pixie Lott ignores advances
Older Talkback
ATTENTION ALL CHRISTIANS - if you believe in the Bible, then you certainly have discovered that in the Old Testament polygamy was practiced by men of god, and aren't all nuns married to the same person??????????
I think the article and comments I've read go to prove the double standard shown by the media and our society. If someone says something about blacks, Jews, Muslims, or someone of untraditional sexual preference, then they are attacked unrelentlessly. But when someone says something about Christians, Mormons, etc., where is the public outcry?
I'm not a Mitt-lover or an Obama-lover, but I believe that a political candidate's personal life is valid in a campaign, despite what France may think. We're choosing someone who's personal opinions have a huge impact on our economy, security, society, etc. How is it that we could expect anyone to not be biased by their own vision of morality? There are alot of people smart enough to make the decisions needed to lead America. There aren't near as many moral enough.
As far as Mitt and Obama go, it's up to each person to judge those characteristics for themselves.
Im sorry but this article was poorly written. The writters research was selective and shallow. One only needs to delve deeper into LDS History to find several instances of how fairly Blacks were treated by Latter-Day Saints at a time when it was unpopular. Mormons were abolitionists, and they recieved a lot of persecution for it. There is one notable instance when Joseph Smith sold his own horse in order to help a former slave earn the money to free his son. The fact is also neglected that Mormons were one of the first churches to have black members stand in front of a podium to address entire congregations, people of all races. The writter is simply stating shallow facts that can easily be sensationalized to invoke an emotional reaction from readers. Good journalism would have made the article more credible.
They throw people out for being crippled or gay(not even going to touch this subject)
They believe that blacks can receive salvation, but that they will be servants to them! Ha!
Polygamy is still going strong.....
I guess it's not that he is of a different religion, but how can we let someone who has these beliefs come into power? The United States is a very diverse place, and separation of church and state or not, the Presidents beliefs shine through. Do we really want this guy being the poster child for America?
According to Romney, he 'can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy.'
This raises some interesting questions. You see, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon) has never renounced polygamy. Indeed, twice yearly the church and its faithful members (which, presumably, includes Romney) sustain the 'Doctrine and Covenants' as scripture.
The problem is that the Doctrine and Covenants (called the 'D&C') has a section that says plural marriage is ordained of god. These verses are still part of the D&C and still sustained as revelation from god. Here is a short excerpt of what it says:
'And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.' [D&C 132:61]
You may want to read the entire section on the official Internet site of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. [Click on 'Gospel Library' then 'Scriptures' and then 'Doctrine and Covenants.' Then click on section 132.]
That's right ... Mr. Romney has and continues to sustain 'scripture' that says a man can have multiple 'virgins' as wives, and that they 'belong' to him.
That's a strange thing to sustain, if Mr. Romney really believes polygamy to be 'awful.'
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has never repudiated polygamy, but they did act on the 'advice' of President Wilford Woodruff to stop practicing plural marriage. This is known as 'Official Declaration 1' and you can read it at the church's official Internet site. [Click on 'Gospel Library' then 'Scriptures' and then 'Doctrine and Covenants.' Then click on 'Official Declaration 1.]
The problem with Romney's comment about plural marriage being 'awful' is pretty obvious. On the one hand he wants to be perceived as an active Mormon -- so he (along with all the other members of the church) sustains as scripture Smith's justification for plural marriage in D&C 132.
On the other hand, Romney wants to be a viable candidate for US President. So he needs to distance himself from the church's 'awful' doctrines like plural marriage.
But what do *we* as Americans want? Do we really want a wishy-washy man who will say whatever it takes to get elected, never knowing where he really stands on issues, and how he'll really act?
Duwayne Anderson
Author of 'Farewell to Eden: Coming to terms with Mormonism and science'
Hannah you are so misinformed it is both sad and entertaining. Your writing is as awful as the writer of this article, wouldn't even qualify you for the back cover of Enquirer or Star magazine. To the writer of this article, I will never pay another of your articles even a minute of my lunch break, because your bias overpowers your writing and reveals your ignorance and lack of newswriting talent.
Where is the reference for that quote?
Duwayne Anderson, unless you can come up with as much research about the other candidates and their religion's ugly pasts, then just reveal your motivation against Mormonism for what it is. Mormons do not practice polygamy, they used to practice polygyny you idiot, similar to that in the bible, or are you going to renounce the bible next? Got any letters behind your name to give you any credibility? reread your rantings about mormons and polygamy and your loose justification for claiming they still believe it. I am not a Mormon and even I know your argument is flawed and outdated. You don't have to vote for MR because you think his Mormon background is awful, but tell me who you are going to vote for so I can give you the real religious dirt on them too. Play fair and recognize the good he has done already for this country, or everyone will know you are biased without a solid argument. At least identify the pros and cons and let people be smart enough to choose for themselves. Silly.
In high school I was in the process of converting, until these issues came up in discussions with elders, so I think hearing it from the horses mouth is pretty accurate. And I'm sorry but I didn't know that commenting on an article meant that I had to be an amazing writer.
Mormons and Scientologists are the best organized at having 24/7 platoons of web watchers scouring for every net article written and posting comments that use the same brainwashing techniques to make the writer of the article seem bigoted.
Duwayne Anderson- Your profile on Amazon.com reveals your attempts to explain religion with science (physics), or least with whatever physics they taught 3 decades ago anyway. Sadly, your life has been consumed with trying to make right in your own mind the 'wrongs' given you by being raised as a Mormon and then later being unable to prove it with science. Change your profile Duwayne, or everyone is going to know how insecure you are in life and they might actually think your life has been consumed by these awful family values you were taught growing up. Were you a polygamist too when you were Mormon? It took you 30 years to figure out what you preached the first 30 years of your life was not explainable by science? Slow learner? Religion is explained purely on faith, they all are (well I don't know about Scientology) and when science helps out that is a lot of fun, but don't ever expect to find more scientific proof of God than what we already know.
That Romney is concerned about polygamy above all is telling. That practice was officially banned in 1890, long before he was born.
But the racist doctrine of the church persisted well into the 20th century. The 1958 book of Mormon Doctrine said:
'The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man's origin. It is the lord's doing... '
That changed, probably under threat of law, but certainly by adverse public opinion. In 1978, Apostle Spencer W. Kimball had a revelation reversing doctrine, and blacks were given full membership in the church.
So, Romney's family, and he himself, worshipped in an officially white supremacist church. It would be nice if that troubled him.
in response to Duwayne Anderson
Romney is quoted in saying polygamy is 'awful' and what you apparently are not informed of, is that most of the members agree with him. Many people in the LDS church today do not fully understand why polygamy happened and certainly do not support it now. The church itself is very much against it.
The Church follows it's prophets, this is true, but the withholding of the priesthood from blacks and the practice of plural marriage are against the will of God. Instead of the past prophets, here's a quote from the current Prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley:
'I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members. They are in violation of the civil law. They know they are in violation of the law. They are subject to its penalties. The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter.
If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church. An article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law” (A of F 1:12). One cannot obey the law and disobey the law at the same time.
There is no such thing as a “Mormon Fundamentalist.” It is a contradiction to use the two words together.
More than a century ago God clearly revealed unto His prophet Wilford Woodruff that the practice of plural marriage should be discontinued, which means that it is now against the law of God. Even in countries where civil or religious law allows polygamy, the Church teaches that marriage must be monogamous and does not accept into its membership those practicing plural marriage.'
That's what Romney supports.
Polygamy is very much a taboo subject in our church's history, but it is just that, history. History that Romney had no part in. All these arguments are against things the church's past, things that the church no longer supports nor tolerates. This is what I would call grasping at straws.
1) The LDS conveniently dropped polygamy when they realized that they would never obtain statehood for Utah with polygamy.
2) Polygamy is many marriage partners technically speaking, LDS practice(d) Polygyny...many wives, a type of polygamy.
3) Religion is important in selecting a leader of the free world. If you have a president who belongs to a faith that teaches the second coming (always to occur in our life time) is going to happen, then why bother with the environment, energy policy, et cetera. If you have a religion that teaches you that the second coming is heralded by the completion of a Jewish state of Israel along with a big battle there...it will affect your foreign policy.
4) Mormons are a remarkably white religion but there are others as well.
5) Religiosity is on the increase in the USA.
6) Religiosity increases in times of societal stress (e.g. income desparity, war, environmental catastrophes (global climate change))...
7) Anyone who has ever spent time in Utah or Idaho can tell you that the LDS is obsessed with gaining political power.
8) Jack Mormons (ex-Mormons) are excomunicated from the church and are not allowed within their churches whatsoever.
9) Mormons believe Jesus walked among the Native Americans to teach them his gospel after he 'died' on the cross.
10) No one is picking on Mormons for believing what they do...but what you believe shapes your behavior. For example, if you elect somebody who believes in UFOs and little grey men, well...it will impact NASA funding and will probably affect the aluminium industry (all those aluminium foil hats we will have to wear to keep them from our brane waves)...
Arguing online is like racing in the Special Olympics... if you win, you're still retarded.
The article points out the disparate argument that the shameful past of polygamy in Mormon history is even more disturbing than their latter day prophets INSANE ramblings about white racial superiority. The author posted this story in people news, and Romney is an interesting person to dissect-especially his policy flip flops over the years. Every religion has shameful silly stories they hold up as truths.
I can't much worse than having to deal with more than one wife....
This is a witless point of discussion, as is Obama's relative blackness or Hillary's femininity. We have thousands of troops stationed in hostile territory. Our standing as a nation in the world is at a very low ebb. Our schools graduate ignoramuses or a regular basis and the Southern boarder with Mexico leaks like a sieve. Who cares whether, if or what someone believes with respect to God or marriage partners?
I want to know the actual reason we invaded Iraq. I want someone with judgement and foresight enough to know that how ever important the issues of this day seem, tomorrow is more important. I don't particularly care what a candidate's position is on any issue. Can they think? Can they discriminate between a compromise that works and self-serving political expediency? If there is someone out there like that please respond.
The issue of polygamy aside, do the American people really want a president who believes in a religion founded by a man (Joseph Smith) who claims to have been visited by both god and Jesus Christ, in Palmyra, N.Y., when he was 14 years old? A religion, based in part, on the text of golden plates, supposedly unearthed by Joseph Smith at age 17, in upstate New York, written in 'reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics' - a language that does not exist. Do they really want a president whose church requires that members wear special underwear to religious services? A church that doesn't allow non-members to even enter the building. Do they really want a president whose religion still believes that the only proper place for women is in the home, making babies? I'd vote for a gun-toting, fire-breathing sunni muslim before I voted for Mitt Romney!
I am a married mother. I am currently inactive in the Church but still consider myself to be Mormon. My ancestors were sent personally by Brigham Young to scout the Idaho Territory. My Great-Great Grandparents were polygamists. I am not necessarily proud of it, but they were doing the best they could to take care of all the women and children left after ALMOST ALL THE MEN WERE KILLED before they were forced to flee West. Polygamy was abandoned by the Church when it was determined no longer necessary. I don't feel that makes me a bad person or morally inferior to anyone else. In fact, I was taught very strict moral values through the church. I am surprised the Reverend Al Sharpton made such a bigoted statement, though, considering what his people have been through I expect more from him. We do believe in God, Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit. I don't believe anyone has the right to make statements about a religion unless they have thoroughly researched it first. I was taught my responsibilities are to help support my husband in keeping the house & raising our child. That, to me, is the foundation of a true marriage & what is most lacking in the moral fabric of today's society. Unfortunately this is the first time I've seen a Mormon presidential candidate...I guess now I know why. It's become obvious prejudice against Mormons is still very prevalent in this country. I am very disappointed.
Your Talkback on this Story