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Jessica Lynch debunks 'hero' myth, stands with Tillman's family
By Stone Martindale Apr 24, 2007, 17:29 GMT
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The US government is now worse than the soviets were. The propaganda isn't even well thought out. It'sxd obvious that they don't know the truth anymore, since they've spun so many lies they can't even keep them straight in their own minds anymore.
Lie to cover up a lie...
what a sin this war has been, we won't 'win' anything but a guaranteed future of even more enraged muslim hordes looking to kill us. We need smarts in our leadership to battle their irrational faith. Interesting that Sheryl Crowe, despite her wacky suggestions-is dead on in promoting biofuels. If we did not need to import oil we could tell the middle east to beat it What a great day that would be! I think green awareness and fuel alternatives are as American in spirit as the tea party in Boston all those years ago.
As americans we are all such cowards and simpletons. We can't figure out that we need to flood Iraq with soldiers and overcome this challenge.
Are we all so scared and weak-minded that we run when we see adversity. It is appalling and disappointing, it seems like this country needs another Pearl Harbor or 9-11 before we will have resolve hardened.
Iraq was a mistake we all know that now, but how we handle our mistakes is what will define us as a country. I wish we had a politician who wasn't afraid to say this is how we will win the war in Iraq. Instead we are all pining away for a spineless leader who wants to cut and run. Focus on welfare, abortion and any other liberal pet issue.
Our country has steadily declined in our economic prowess and inventiveness since we lost Vietnam. I wonder how low we will sink after we lose Iraq because of all the spineless folks.
If we stopped buying middleast fuel their countries would become even poorer and their suppresive leaders would still blame the US.causing more Jihadist Islam is evil, pure and simple truth. It has give these repressed people someone to blame instead of their evil and unhuman religion that keeps them unstified with their human existance!
Leaving this war is not about being spineless. It's about realize we made a mistake and righting out wrongs. Are the Iraqi people honestly better off now than before? Are they actually 'free'?? They still live in fear of their lives and under the influence of a negative controlling force. If anyone is spineless, it is our leader for not being man enough to admit his mistake and his lies and right this wrong. Soldiers are dying every day for a war that the American public does not support and for a war that was started under false pretenses. How many years has it been since that banner read 'Mission Accomplished' and don't try to spin any bull about him not knowing about that. He's the president, I don't believe for a second he doesn't know what a sign behind him says.
Bottom line, we must find a way to get out of Iraq. Not only for our own good, but for the good of the Iraqi people. We have become enablers and are probably causing more violence in the country by our mere presence.
i was at fort bliss with ms. lynch she was a slut and as for tillman do you honestly think special forces shot thier own? the truth is is that in the army there is a saying that there is no such thing as friendly fire. my bet is that tillman showed his buddies he couldnt be trusted so they took actions. thats the truth of war if you have quarrels then join the army or work in politics and change it dont just sit around typing complaints on the internet. my bet is you are all stupid, media brainwashed minimum wage liberals.
I think it is time for the American people to stand up and say enough to Bush and Cheney and their illegal war. What has Bush done that was not a lie in the years that he has been in office.. I honestly believe that he is a disgrace to the office and I wish Congress had the nerve to stand behind the American people and do what they voted them in for.
Patriot, why do you call the Muslims faith irrational? Is it more so than Christian faith? The attitude that Islam is 'irrational' is one of the things that makes this war worse than it has to be: The Muslim community in the Middle East know that many 'Westerners' think Islam 'irrational' and many believe that the U.S. is fighting a war on Islam, not terrorism. To be fair I don't think that extremists should take it as far as they have (bombings etc.), but it is not as if they haven't been provoked. This war has made a mess that we will not be able to fix for decades, maybe longer, but the least we can do is not call shots against a faith that is given an extreme bad rap by its radicals and extremists that claim that is is the will of Allah/God.
If we stopped buying middle-east fuel their countries would become even poorer and their suppresive leaders would still blame the US, causing more Jihadist. Islam is evil, pure and simple truth. It has give these repressed sheeple someone to blame instead of their evil and unhuman religion that keeps them unsatisfied with their human existance!
File this under Bush's 'Mission Accomplished' Cheney's 'The insurgency is in its final throes' Condi's 'Why We Know Iraq Is Lying' Rumsfeld's 'We know Where the weapons of mass destruction are' Wolfowitz's 'The war will pay for itself.' Almost makes you want to pull your kids out of college and send them to work digging ditches. How could this seemingly well educated lot make so many mistakes and mistatements? Are we the people really this stupid or are Americans as a group delusional and easily led?
'Fate's Right Hand, I don't understand at all.' Rodney Crowell
Beltway Greg
Since this is all about the truth then lets look at the big picture. I am a little supprised by the media intensity of Pat Tillmans death. The facts as reported by other soldiers there are now available for everone to view. No this is about a failure to present the truth in a timely maner. Since that is also obvious then Everyday Americans fight and die for a war
it's just more of the same. LIES LIES LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!this admin. has lied about everything since they were put in office by the (oil) powers that be. That was the start of the lies. That mr. bush 'won' the election. the Iraq war.. wmd's...etc. etc. etc. to have the Military LIE to promote his war is absolutely outrageous.. Why in the world isn't this admin. IMPEACHED? Anyone who believes ANY of these people...has to be living in the same sh t pile these people crawled out from.
Lynch was the young veteran who was savaged by Iraqi soldiers and who nearly lost her life in service to her country.
Give me a break! She got caught under fire, was treated and essentially released before her fellow officers 'came to her rescue'.
I recall seeing Jessica on the motivational speakers circuit in Charlotte, NC shortly after she returned home. She didn't seem to mind all the hoopla about her story then.......my have times changed.
Backbone,
Where will the troops to 'flood Iraq' come from? Are you advocating reinstatement of the draft?
Fact check, please:
1) The claim that Lynch was sexually assaulted came from Rick Bragg, who wrote a book about her. Lynch herself has never claimed she was sexually assaulted, nor that she was mistreated.
2) The American doctor who examined Lynch said she received excellent medical care, especially in light of the conditions in Iraq at the time. This medical care included using one of the last bone braces in Iraq to stabilize her injuries.
Let's talk about saving lives and even enhancing those of people with real illnesses that can be helped. BE FOR MORE STEM CELL RESEARCH.
Let's talk about saving lives... by coming home from Iraq and then taking care of our returning vets, and especially those that are injured. Enough is enough.
Let's talk about saving lives... by helping those in need here, at home. People who are in need of medical insurance, from children to seniors.
You are not a coward or anti-patriot when you express your unwillingness to swallow the lies and distortions of this administration. Beef up our own borders. We cannot win a war that has been fought for most of recorded history... by fuedal tribes and religions. Zealots who cherish not peace but martyrdom.
the war was completely legal, unfortunately. signed and sealed with permission of the UN and congress of the US to use force. John Kerry, Hillary, and Edwards all agree with bush.
Kevin cormier, will you accept a collect call?
You got that right 'trampled'. Our government, press and corporate organization have trampled on individaul rights in this country long enough.
' The US government is now worse than the soviets were '
Please , that is ridiculous .
' If we did not need to import oil we could tell the middle east to beat it ' Screw them ? Let them burn ? What is wrong with giving them the money that they desperately need for development in exchange for them giving us oil ?
'we are all such cowards and simpletons ' I agree , you are an idiot . Do the world a favour and put a bullet in your head . Oh wait , let me guess you do not include yourself , it is ' them ' ' they ' that are the ' cowards and simpletons ' .
' Our country has steadily declined in our economic prowess and inventiveness since ' Do you smoke a lot of crack ? ' ' steadily declined ' for the last 30 years ? So we are a 3rd world country now ?
I guess you are right , you are a ' simpleton ' .
Islam is what it is. The radicals are the true Islam! Pick up the Koran and see for yourselves. The Koran was written word for word by there evil god so it can never be reformed as their GOD is 'perfect'. On the other hand the bible is an 'inspired' work of God by humans which allows it to be reformed from early human conditions. Also, no other mainstream religion advocates killing humans and glorify death like Islam. Islam has no respect for God's gift of human life. We see it every day in the middle east. Islamist 'love death more than life' so they will continue killing themselves and innocents for their GOD.
Wake up people! There will be no peace on Earth until Islam is abolished!
The guys that perpetuated or perpetrated this falsehood were GENERALS! How did they think they were going to get away with it? These guys are from the 'New Army' that Tony Franks wrote about in his book. It makes you wonder about our military’s intelligence.
Jessica Lynch should've refused to accept her Bronze Star. She did nothing to warrant the award. She did not fire her weapon as it was so full of sand she could not chamber a round, nor did she attempt to, in some small way, satisfactorily participate in suppressing the enemy ambush. It is disgraceful to accept a combat award when she did not engage in combat, she was merely a bystander.
The US government has always lied to parents of soldiers KIA when the truth is inconvenient or embarrassing... It's just the way it's been..
Nowadays with the public access to information via the internet, the government should know better than to try and quash something as highly visible as Tillman getting KIA.
The current leadership of our country is shameful and I, for one, can't wait until we get someone else in there. Anyone will be better than Bush and his crooked cronies.
My heart goes out to Tillman's family. Him joining the service and leaving a lucrative NFL career spoke volumes about his character and his strong belief in doing what he thought was right. You raised your boy right.
God Bless.
kevin cormierApr 24th, 2007 - 18:26:06
Said:
i was at fort bliss with ms. lynch she was a slut and as for tillman do you honestly think special forces shot thier own? the truth is is that in the army there is a saying that there is no such thing as friendly fire. my bet is that tillman showed his buddies he couldnt be trusted so they took actions. thats the truth of war if you have quarrels then join the army or work in politics and change it dont just sit around typing complaints on the internet. my bet is you are all stupid, media brainwashed minimum wage liberals.
Are You kidding me! Are there really people like you still out there. You sir are what is wrong with our country. How dare yo sit behind your computer, disrespect a women who fought for her country was sexually abused and then used as a propaganda tool, and to add to that u blame the men for killing him because he can not be trusted....Did you take your meds today!
I can not believe that that was even allowed to be posted.
Trisha
Response to Kevin Cormier's ridiculous comments
'I was at Fort Bliss with Ms Lynch she was a slut'
Ok, and that negates her injuries and sexual assault and her story? Come on. Throwing around random personal attacks doesn't prove anything except that you're an idiot.
'My bet is that Tillman showed his buddies he couldn't be trusted and they took actions'
So you're saying it wasn't friendly fire it was murder? And that to you is a more believable story?
It doesn't matter if this entire page is full of 'minimum-wage liberal' comments, the truth is that those comments are backed by numbers and facts. Your comments on the other hand are full of meaningless judgments and conspiracy theories...
Americans = cowards/liars/cheaters/destroyers...take your pick...all are accurate
As it turns out, Jessica Lynch is a hero. A hero for truth. Only a bone-headed conservative could believe in the crap our Gov't dreams up anyway.
Bush and his crowd lie (literally) at the heart of all these troubles. It's time for him to go. Visit impeachhimDOTorg
Both Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch ARE real heros. In Jessica's case, it's not uncommon for real heros to deny that their own actions were heroic, and to deflect credit to others. Jessica is a hero for serving her country, for her bearing in captivity while gravely injured, for calling out, 'I'm an American soldier.' Jessica came from the most ordinary of American families, to whom we are greatly and forever indebted.
Pat is a hero for simply showing up, for volunteering to serve our country. The fact that Pat's volunteering was at great personal financial expense is significant, but it was the basic act of volunteering, of ultimately giving his life for our country, that makes his actions the equal of Jessica's.
I try to understand the grieving of Pat Tillman's family. I know that anger is a phase of grief, and that that might be particularly true if your son or brother died of friendly fire.
I have had the honor of meeting many families who have lost their sons or daughters in Iraq or Afghanistan. A few are against the war and see their son's or daughter's death as evidence of a misguided policy. But I must tell you of the great majority, that they are proud of their son's or daughter's military service. I find some confusion about America's goals, particularly in Iraq, but most families want to believe that their son or daughter died for an important cause important to our nation's interest. And finally, they do not want their son or daughter to have died in vain.
Henry Waxman's hearings are clearly intended to try to discredit the Bush administration. I believe that Waxman is primarily motivated by partisan politics, and I question whether his actions are supportive of most of the families, or of our troops serving in harm's way. They are not.
There is no such thing as friendly fire do you honestly think tillman didnt have radio contact with his own men. I served in iraq and i know what it takes to get shot by your own men and that is to be hated by them. as for lynch I just question her integrity because i knew her
Kevin Cormier, you are a fool. You call a wounded soldier a slut, and a person who gave up millions to fight for what he believed in unstrustworthy - and you do it because they and their familes don't think in lock-step with you. You were a soldier? Even you must realize you are in a bad way when you start to eat your own.
The Pat Tillman story is sad indeed. In addition to mis-reporting the accurate details of Pat Tillman's death, the the Army further demeans Pat Tillman's death by awarding him the Silver Star. For what? What Tillman did is only common on the battlefield. It desecrates the sanctity of the medal and all those who have gone before and been awarded the Silver Star.
From a USA Today Article coinciding with Lynch's book's release. It should also be noted that the very doctors Lynch sees as having risked their lives to save hers disputed her claims that she was sexually assualted while unconscious -- something she does not recall, but supsects.
'The episode was originally described in heroic terms, with Lynch battling fiercely and later being rescued under dire circumstances.
'But subsequently it was learned that Lynch never fired a shot because her rifle jammed. By the time U.S. forces arrived, the hospital was undefended. And Iraqi hospital staffers had earlier tried to sneak her to safety in an ambulance, but turned back when suspicious U.S. soldiers opened fire.
'In the book, Lynch admits she was no hero: 'I didn't kill nobody.' In the broadcast interview, ABC's Diane Sawyer asked her, 'Did you go down, like somebody said, (like) Rambo?' Lynch replied, 'No. No. I went down praying to my knees. And that's the last I remember.
'I did nothing,' she added. 'I mean, I was just there in that spot, you know — the wrong place, the wrong time.'
'Lynch also challenges the account of an Iraqi lawyer who says he saw her being slapped by military interrogators in the hospital.
'From the time I woke up in that hospital, no one beat me, no one slapped me... I mean, I actually had one nurse, that she would sing to me,' she told ABC. 'I'm so thankful for those people, because that's why I'm alive today.'
'In the book, Lynch describes how Iraqi doctors were branded 'traitors' by those loyal to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein for helping her.'
What planet is Kevin from? He can apparently type. I wonder if he can read? Or better yet, I wonder what he reads?
People call this Bush's illegal war, they seem to forget that Congress voted to go to war. Top democrats like Clinton, Kennedy and Kerry said we had no choice. They also forget that we were attacked. The twin towers falling should be on the news everyday, so people won't forget.
Look, the military has always told families of victims of 'friendly fire' that their loved ones died honorably in combat.
It is simply an effort to avoid heaping more pain on their loss.
No one needs to hear, 'oh, yeah, and your loved one's death was a horrible mistake involving crossfire, misidentification, and the US soldier who shot your son feels absolutely terrible and is undergoing severe life-threatening depression for accidentally killing one of his own brothers-in-arms.'
The military didn't set out to make Tillman a recruiting poster, the media and the NFL chose to go all hero-worship with his death. So yeah, the military stuck to the 'killed in action' story. Once they were outed by the media, they said, ok, yes, it was friendly fire, and now look, sure enough the family feels even worse. They are sad, angry, disappointed, and they feel like their loved one's death was meaningless, evil, and a big mistake instead of feeling sad but proud of his service.
Thanks, America, for helping Tillman's family feel even worse about a tragedy, and encouraging them and everyone else to blame anybody and everybody other than the terrorists he was in Afghanistan to fight.
Yes, Afghanistan, you idiots, he was not in Iraq. He was in Afghanistan to fight the Taliban after 9-11.
Most of you chose simply to demonstrate your ignorance and insensitivity. Jerks.
Our poor country, we have so many useful idiots willing to side with whomever is doing us the most harm at any given moment.
I still support the original motive for the war, that Saddam was evil capable of using chemical weapons on his own people, and should be removed from power. I am glad that dictator is gone along with his sons and henchmen.
However, the Bush administration has screwed up again and again, the execution of strategy of this war, both from a military and from a foreign policy point of view.
We still don't have a viable exit strategy, and the administration is not articulating any plan for getting out. Rice, Rove, Cheeney, and Rumsfeld have really screwed this up and Bush can't figure out which one of his advisors to listen to.
Support is waning and people are making up good news when there isn't any. The American people should be told the truth regardless.
I'll bet Kevin Cormier left his burger flippin job to go to Ft Bliss. Probably got kicked out for bedwetting. If you are so STUPID to think that Tillman was taken out by people who thought he couldn't be trusted??? you watch to many episodes of 24, Dude, people who don't support what your president has done does not make them cry baby liberals. I would call those people Fellow Americans. Just because our standing among great nations now is in question. Wake-up Kevin and those who share your opinion,It's not in our constitution to spread liberty and democracy across the globe. Last guy that tried to impose his will on the world got what he deserved (HITLER)Go soldier, fight your war. But leave my kids and grand kids out of it.
Threetorches,
How did they think they were going to get away with it? Pat Tillman's brother Kevin was in the SAME unit as Pat!
hmmmm...and we've never heard of the government telling the family that their son was a hero before right? cmon guys, this was not some well thought out propogandist manuever, it was probably meant to make tillman's family feel a little bit better about their son dying. I wouldn't want to hear that my son was killed by his brother in arms, especially after quitting out on a dream to fight for something he thought was more important, referencing pat tillman's NFL history.
To kevin cormier
Apr 24th, 2007 - 18:26:06
Not so nice things to say about your compatriots! Even it it were true, should you be maligning these folks publicly? Such is not Army etiquette! If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.
This war is sad, yes, but we must now pick ourselves up by our bootstraps and move on. Lord help us to conclude this issue how You see fit.
Our government no longer represents the people. This is evident. What we need is a viable third party and term limits on all offices. This is not likely to happen, though, because our government is ruled by special interest and corporate money.
Kevin Cormier, Fool, Green Beret,Ranger,Navy Seal. I know you had to be special forces soldier by your vast knowledge of all things worldly.Yeah you fought in Iraq alright, fought to get back on the plane home.I think that if you actually were there, you wouldn't have made it back, except in a sack!!!!
the president is a poop faced coward trying to cover this up
Afghanistan!! He was killed in Afghanistan!! What the hell does Iraq have to do with his death??!
i want to kill the president
If you are so sure that we need 'to flood' Irag with American soldiers then are you planning on joining the military to do your part?
As the daughter of two military parents that have both served in wars and made their sacrafice, I am tired of so-called patriotic Americans running their mouths about supporting the war and the troops...when I do not see any of these very same people joining or sending their sons and daughters to join.
The sad fact is, like in Vietnam, you can not fight a mind set or a way of life, and that is why we will never win in Iraq. Our soldiers are nothing but prisoners of war in their own army...being overextended time and time again...several of them serving more than 3 tours of duty (which wasn't even done during the Vietnam War)...we either need to pull out, or you self proclaimed patriotic Americans need to LINE UP & SIGN UP OR JUST SHUT UP.
Now that i have your attention, lets talk about liberals.
Whats wrong with liberals... well everything. unfourtunately i cant explain to you all your faults. i dont have the time and you are all too dumb to comprehend. But I will adress two things.
1. the war on terrorism no matter how many lies are behind it is a much needed function. I believe bush did lie. he has made the americans think that we are fighting sadam loyalists when in actuality we are fighting shiites. The american people would cringe at the fact that the people we liberated are the most extreme of the muslims. the shiites are brainwashed from birth in thier madrassas. they are hell bent on destroying the west and infadels and if we can help them meet allah with less collateral damage than say a suicide bomb then we need to be there killing them. also bush would never admit to being there for oil but if you liberals want to continue to eat your organic fruits and drive your mopeds we need to make sure that we can keep gas from going up to $15 dollars a gallon. i dont know why a party of people on welfare would object to cheap trade.
backbone- Are you crazy? Did I just read what you said? You want us to have another tragedy so people will stomach what we are doing abroad? There is a reason people don't want us to keep fighting in that country. It doesn't make sense for us to be there unless you are thinking in terms of making certain individuals and corporations billions of dollars or global domination. Imagine if a country invaded the U.S. for no reason and took it completely over. You wouldn't like it either.
See, half of you ignorrant people jump to religion as your sole purpose to argue. Thats exactly what that dumb ass bush did and look where it took him. You christians believe in Jesus as your God?!?! thats the dumbest thing i have EVER heard. Why dont you read the BIBLE. NOWHERE IN THERE DID HE SAY WORSHIP ME!! HE ALWAYS SAID 'WORSHIP THY FATHER' first you say he died for your sins then you say, there will be a second coming of Jesus?? make up your minds you dumb idiots. Religion is a joke to 97% christians out there. Us Muslims take our religion seriously. We believe in ONE God! Thats it. no intermedieries like you people use. Crosses, pictures of Jesus, Virgin mary ect. If Jesus was God why were his last words on the cross 'God, why have you forsaken me' TELL ME YOU LOSERS?? IF HE IS GOD WHY CANT HE JUST COME DOWN AND WHY WOULD HE REFER TO ANOTHER GOD??? you people are so quick to blame Islam when you dont know a single thing about it. why dont you see what Islam really says instead of believing what the stupid media feeds you. ALL MEDIA= JEWS. JEWS HATE MUSLIMS. BIG CORRELATION. AMERICA IS DUPING ALL OF YOU LOSERS IN A ABYSS OF LIES AND SCANDALS AND YOU FOOLS EAT IT ALL UP LIKE ITS CANDY...open your eyes and stop listening to CNN and all the other media. they only want you to hear and see what they want you to hear and see. remember that. please look into Islam with an open mind and i gaurantee, you will change your mind about Islam.
I agree that our military conducted itself shamefully in the way that the Tillman and Lynch incidents were handled and manipulated, but to suggest as one commenter has, that the 'US government is now worse than the soviets were' is simple evidence of profound ignorance. There is nothing in the entire history of our nation and government, including its absolute worst hours, that compares to the systemic, blatant, perverse and pervasive public deception that characterized the soviet government. Obviously, that person is too young and too naive to know or comprehend the truth of the soviet regimes.
At least the Tillman Family and Jessica have a congress they can come and talk to. If the red neck republicans were still in charge, they never would have made an apperance.
Backbone - you admit that 'Iraq was a mistake' and then go on to suggest that we should flatten the place and double our effort so that we don't look like loosers? You're sick dude - wake up and smell the oil.
and you dont think the democrats are using people like shehan tillman and lynch as propaganda come on
Why is it that whenever anyone speaks out against the war, they are branded with a hateful label? Its simple; Bush lied to the American people and got us into a war that we should never have been involved in. Now he refuses to listen to congress despite the fact that they are answering the call of American voters. Besides, didn't George W declare victory on an aircraft carrier a few years ago? What's up with that?
If our country was under a severe threat, most Americans would rally to defend our flag. This war needs to end.
ummm dylan tabor......
that's not quite right, and definitely not American.....
I'm sorry to whoever feels differently, but I didn't vote for Bush either, but I also know he is probably doing a better job than I could in this situation, and the Democratic party messing with everything he does is not helping matters....so, if u can't support the president in these times, how bout trying to shut up, instead of making stupid threats that u will never truly fill out, and idiotic comments about how you can't support America anymore because our President made a stupid decision with only the information he had at the time.
Whether you like it or not. You will still need the Mideast oil to fuel your lavish lifestyles that you refuse to give up. so until you can give up the hummers and the trucks, stop fantasizing about 'telling the mid east to beat it' it is the oil that you’re after and it is the oil that will keep you the faithful dog.
Kevin you need to read a little more. Osama bin Ladin in a Sunni.
Ill have you know i was a nurse in iraq and i voulonteered i also joined the day after september 11th and furthermore i was also in katrina helping save the folks who stayed behind to protect thier drug trade and loot the city
Oh, and to hark back to my earlier post on Tillman, Jessica Lynch's story was also seized by the media and sensationalised.
When the military was asked about her case, they commendably gave the 'combat veteran hero' answer they would have given about any soldier.
Because they know what happens when people that weren't there and have no context try to analyze events they know nothing about.
They invariably say stupid things like she isn't a hero because her gun jammed when her unit was attacked. The media loves to do stuff like that, analyze who is a bigger hero, who fought harder, who flew into the heart of darkness, who did more, harder, better, faster...and then bash them and tear them down when they expose the 'real story' the next week.
And when Lynch tried to be modest and honest and deflect credit to her comrades, and downplay the danger she was in, the media used THAT as well, to attack her first and then the military for 'lying.'
Thanks, people, for creating heros in one breath and tearing them down in the next. It would be sad if it weren't so predictable.
Hobbs, 'I and the Father are one'? Is that enough for you? 'If you have seen me, you have seen the Father'? There's two. 'Before Abraham was born, I Am' There's three?
You want me to look into Islam with an open mind? DO those Palestinian children who are brainwashed that the 'jew is evil' given a chance to examine Islam with an open mind? Are the hate-mongering imams in Europe examining things with an open mind, living off of Socialist European countries while decrying the evil of western society?
Mr. Dylan Tabor: Please remain where you are, we will be in touch with you shortly.
'Ill have you know i was a nurse in iraq and i voulonteered i also joined the day after september 11th and furthermore i was also in katrina helping save the folks who stayed behind to protect thier drug trade and loot the city'
Kevin, you're still an a-hole, and I would also bet that you are quite gay.
Guys i hope you all know that it is the shiites that are evil and the taliban and osama are both shiites osamas family are sunnis and that is why he rebeled it is the sunnis who tolerate western ideals
if i were gay wouldnt that make me a liberal shame on you liberal for labeling me you are worse than imus
This war was initiated because of our addiction to oil and our conviction that the world's resources are ours to squander. I wonder why we would spend hundreds of billions of dollars in an attempt to impose our will on people unwilling to accept it rather than investing the same capital to become energy self sufficient and better custodians of our environment.
The greatness of this country was born from the determination of people oppressed in their native lands who undertook great hardship to make a better way. No one gave freedom to them. Today we feel that we can short cycle this process and GIVE people 'freedom' as only we understand it.
God Bless the Tillman's and Jessica for standing up for the truth. The liars
have fooled most of the American population and it will be hard to get the
message out to everyone. Love ya.......
Jessica Lynch is in fact a Hero. It has taken a lot of courage to persist with honesty and truth in the face of massive government bureaucratic deception and dishonesty implicating her.
kevin, im honestly not really worried about who's a sunni or who's a shiite, or Jew, Satanist, Christian, Buddhist, etc. The main idea is that people are shooting at and bombing americans over there, I'm more worried about those people getting home safe than who we are trying to take out. We just need to finish with this war as fast as possible and get out, and save the most lives possible in the long run.
has anyone forgot that we do not have any honorable reason to be in Iraq than to just right a horrendous wrong which we caused, mainly the annihilation of the Iraqi peoples and their murderous Saddam Hussein. There are many countries like this one we could have invaded but nooooooooooooo! they have oil!, African countries do not!
If we wanted honorable deaths, we should have gone after the Saudis who perpetrated the 9/11 disaster and their murderous leader. But the CArlyle group is a friend of the saudis, so we go after their neighbors.
There is nothing honorable about a war in Iraq, but a war against Al Quaeda would have been.
'Kevin Cormier,' it is truly disgusting that people like you continue to perpetuate hate and ignorance.
Hey Hobbs, you're wrong on ALL counts. Jesus did say he was God. Jesus explained that the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are ONE God (after all God has the prerogative to be anything he wants...He's God, you blockhead). There will be a second coming of Jesus because he said there will be, it's as SIMPLE as that (take your own advice and read Revelation, you arrogant idiot). I do not hate Muslims, but I do disrespect Islam. Unlike you, I will not attempt to portray myself as an authority on Islam. All I know is what I can see with my own eyes. Wherever in this world that modern-day Muslims have assembled they have brought death to their own people and to others around them. Modern-day Muslims are intolerant. Modern-day Muslims do not create or invent, they use and destroy. Modern-day Muslims kill themselves, they kill other Muslims, and they are reactionary to the point of sheer insanity. Modern-day Muslims are living and acting out a lie. Modern-day Muslims will likely bring about the Apocalypse, and it is from them that the Anti-Christ will likely emerge. Go to hell, Hobbs. You're hateful and you, and all others like you, are unnecessary among us.
It goes back to the saying 'you break it.You own it' This was said by an intelligent and experience man. The US government did not listen. Now where are we? Our young men are coming home without arms and legs, paralized and more and more are dying each day at very young age.
Why? this war should not have been.
This is not the first time that the suggestion surfaced that the 'heroic' branding of Jessica Lynch's ordeal was fabricated by the military, yet who in the military responded proactively to diffuse the lie? Certainly not the 'Commander-in-Chief' who could have demanded the truth and conveniently failed to do so. Ultimately, Jessica's testimony before congress serves to underscore how self-serving this administration truly is. George Bush demonstrates his contempt for the American Citizen when he decides for us that we can't handle the truth, or worse, that his version of the truth will somehow mask the dirth of leadership qualities he posseses. What a sad little naked emperor he is.
Reading the anti-American comments I can't help but wonder why you so fiercely hate America yet you're quite content to take advantage of living here with all its glory. If you hate it so much, please leave. There are plenty of other industrialized, well developed countries out there where you can live and hate us from afar. If you don't like America so much, how come you enjoy everything that's been brought to you by America? You are exercising a fundamental 'Americanism' simply by bashing the place. I'm not saying I support or don't support anything. I just want you to stop and think for a minute: You weren't complaining when you set your security alarm last night and went to bed knowing you'd be safe. You weren't complaining this morning when you had breakfast. You weren't complaining when you parked your $50,000 car in your 2-car garage in Suburbia. So, if you can't stand America so much, I'd rather you didn't partake so freely of American liberties and please move to Eurpoe. There you will find plenty of like-minded American-hating individuals just like yourself and you can leave me and all other Americans in peace.
It goes back to the saying 'you break it.You own it' This was said by an intelligent and experience man. The US government did not listen. Now where are we? Our young men are coming home without arms and legs, paralized and more and more are dying each day at very young age.
Why? this war should not have been.
all you idiot who bash the president of the USA...feel free to catch a boat to china...most of you are nothing but a bunch of fat doughnut eaters that sit behind a desk job that someone gave you because you too stupid and ignorant to get something yourself...quit leeching the freedom that many honorable men and women gave to this country...and crawl back under your rock...post your whines and cry baby antics from inside china and see how far you get.
whiners and lamers.....
Once again, i don't really think we should care as much about the reason we are in iraq as much as the fact that we ARE ALREADY THERE. I really am not worried if we are there for oil, to settle an old score or any of that. People, much like Tillman and Lynch are being shot at, and their willingness to have even signed up for that job makes them heroes. We should take our heroes out of Iraq ASAP, but as soon as possible does not seem like right now..
If all of you would just ignore Cornier... maybe he would go away.
He has used the safety of our most 'liberal' of freedoms... to spew his words with such venom... the vitrol that comes in his writings is nothing less than combative. He neds a Day Job!
Thank God... that he is not on a college campus... He has served his country as a nurse, he says,, but he must have suffered the pain and embarrasment of administering too many backfiring enemas.
Why is it now, after already being honored by the American people and government that Jessica Lynch decides to express this sentiment? I didn't hear Lynch mention any of this when she was in the focus of the public's eye.
Jessica Lynch is a worthless peice of crap...she probably watch the movie 'Private Benjermin' and thought she was going to day camp when she signed up....maybe the Goverment should have just told Kevin Tillman..his brother was shot and killed by freindly fire..because he wasnt where he was suppose to be nor communicated his postion...but instead elected to run around like John Wayne with his SAW.
Who is a hero? Who isn't a hero? Who is our enemy? Who isn't our enemy? While some here think they have the answers to these basic questions, I don't see how clarity is possible given the complete absence of thought regarding our military objectives during the last five-plus years. Do you really want to make it an issue between Saddam's guys versus Osama's, or between a military that lies to protect us from its incompetence versus an army that is either infighting or openly incompetent? Feel free to turn off every media outlet and continue to tell yourself that all is well, all the while railing against the government in every area outside of those who wear uniforms. America is a big, broad land to the point that lunatics such as the rightwingers who have attempted to communicate here might feel at home. Just don't confuse the thoughts going through your heads as in any way reflective of the reality experienced by everyone else.
despite all this insane babbling and finger pointing on political leaders and religions. No matter what, there won't be a day that goes by that I won't thank any soldier or their family for what they are and what they do.
There is no evidence that Jessia Lynch was sexually assaulted by Iraqi soldiers. Does this 'journalist' feel no shame about printing conjecture as fact?
THERE IS NO MORE REAL TRUTH LEFT. PEOPLE LIKE TO TELL THEIR OWN TRUTH ABOUT THE REAL TRUTH.
In response to those, you included Kevin Cromier (sp?), who think keeping our military in Iraq is a good idea. Why do I feel the need to remind everyone I speak with that the whole supposed reason for going to war was retailiation for 9/11? Why does no one ever mention Osama Bin Laden? It couldn't be because his cronies, oops I mean family, and the Bush family are thicker than thieves (pun intended) could it? Face it, the Bush dynasty has had it out for Iraq and Saddam since ol' papa George screwed it up 17 years ago. After stealing the presidency priority one was getting Saddam, whatever way they had to do it. I don't think, at least I pray, that Dubya had anything to do with 9/11, but I do think his little team of puppet masters were thrilled to have something to use to get the American public to JUMP at going to Iraq. So here we are, we were all duped by a man who WOULDN'T EVEN GO TO WAR HIMSELF when it was his time. We should have never been there and I can thoroughly understand the Iraqi people's hatred of us. How would you react if America were invaded by an army whose leader had no problems killing you or your children for some oil?! Also, how dare you call Jessica Lynch a slut on this discussion thread! What, she wouldn't go out with you and your still crying like a baby??? Your infantile comment has nothing to do with anything and it only shows your true reason for opening up your uneducated mouth. Go ahead and call me a liberal whiner, whatever. Truth is truth and if you need to be lied to so you can sleep at night then so be it. I grew up in a military family, my father was front line in Vietnam (similarities to Iraq?) and my brother was a SEAL in the first Gulf war. Let's not mince words, I believe in my right to defend my family and my country, but invasion and murder of people who had NOTHING to do with 9/11 is not defense, it's cowardice with some dollar signs behind it.
this comment is for mr kevin cormier. in your comment regarding pvt. lynch you called her a slut . as a veteran of deasert storm a am ashamed of you. jessica w2as a prisoner of war. were you? my guess is no. if you had any pride in your military service you would not have said such a thing. i also believe that the only reason you referred to her as a slut is that she wouldn't give you any . hell i can't blame her for not because it seems your just a whiney B***h you has no pride in his country. as for our political problems i believe All politicians are crooked what we need is for a good ole red blooded american to take office and quit taking all of these lower countries crap
. the whole world used to fear us because we took no crap from anyone now they laugh and mock us knowing we as a country are week. ive got two words for them and they are nuclear weapon.
Let’s have a big hand for Kevin. After all the bravado he displayed in his earlier post, I wouldn’t have had the guts to admit that I was a nurse. Kevin, as I thought from your first post, you fall into the category of “rear echelon commando.” On my few trips from the delta to Saigon, I used to run into those guys. The closet they got to combat was watching it at night from the bar on top of the Rex Hotel. If you really believe in this war, go back as a combat medic and see what real soldering is all about. I flew my 313 missions and I know what it’s all about. I also know what your job was about because spent some time in the 36th Medical Evac on my way home.
Pat Tillman's service in the military was incredibly noble, selfless and brave, and I am grateful to him for doing it. His death was so terribly tragic, because he did not have to be there, and he had such a successful life and could have had anything he wanted outside of the military, but he sacrificed it all in the service to his country. It was not long after his death that I learned that he may have been killed by 'friendly fire.' That news added to the pain of hearing of his death.
As a military vet myself, I know what kind of unsavory things commands can do. Bad enough they show human fallibility, but many are also supreme pragmatists, aggressive Type-A personalities. Despite that, the fact is, the truth came out fairly quickly. That's more than one should hope for in a war.
I suppose Jessica Lynch has heard many more stories about herself than I have. I don't recall any detailed accounts of her as 'a fighting hero.' Perhaps it faded with time? The most thrilling account of her experience that I remember is of her lying helpless and semi-conscious in one of Saddam's hospitals, when our military rescue team swooped in on helicopters, rescued her from the hospital and took her home. Yes, I recall some nay-sayers claiming that it was all an unnecessary use of force on our side, that the doctors fully co-operated with the rescue teams and no one even fired a shot at our men. So what? That was a gutsy, thrilling rescue.
Afghanistan a country, which bankrupted USSR, nobody but a complete fool, would jump back in; bush is responsible primarily but the present armed forces generals who served in Vietnam and are now are running the show knew this could not be won.
Iraq a disaster since day one, nobody but a maniac would get us involved; bush again is the primary person responsible but congress, the cowards they are have allowed this to go on without the slightest objection except for Ron Paul and a few others, should be voted out of office on their term expiration. I could go on and on – but you get the point.
The troops who are maimed and who have lost their lives and the financial burden that bush has gotten us into is unparalleled in my lifetime, we are the laughing stock of the world except it is so serious we have made enemies in every corner of the globe. I certainly hope we learn something from this. From a disgusted Vietnam vet and US citizen.
I see a lot of religious fervor and posturing against the media in these comments. The two are very much the same. All organized religion is not really about religion, it is about control, whether islamic or christian. Much the same may be said about the media, it's about control, control of information fed to those to be controled. 'Who is that' you may ask, why it are us, you and I.
The gov leaks to the press to sling mud, to 'control the situation' or 'minimize collateral damage'. It is done by organized religion the same way, because we, the people (or perhaps sheep) are too stupid to grasp the significance of the reality, at least in their estimation, and must be 'protected from ourselves'.
Koresh, Khomeni, Al-Sadr, Jones, Bush, Cheney, Trump, et.al. are all examples. Jim and Tammy-Faye, the list goes on and on. If it is a big organization, it is about control, period. Don't think for one minute that the flap about Tillman or Lynch is anything but, nor is it likely to change. Similarly, I know several christian and islamic folks who are as chagrined by this as any and who agree that it is the so-called leaders, those who need to control, whom are, in fact, the real culprits here.
I do have pride in my country how dare a liberal accuse me otherwise. I am not a bush supporter but i am a conservative who will not ever support the party of hipocracy and furthermore who are you to talk about propaghanda you liberals spew out lies to unedeucated minorities and union workers pledging change but these people are still in the same place they have been. take for instance the black community. liberal democrats have only made them more dependant on welfare while supporting so called black leaders such as shapton and jackson who are more racist than anyone and have only taken away the communities sense of independence. the more conservative minorities who havent bo0ught in to these politics such as the chinese have flourished financially. this is the worst form of propaghanda. finally i was a medic before i became a nurse and i was in baghdad so eat it you veitnam hippy
Most people in this country have absolutely no idea what will happen to this world if we pull out of Iraq and the country and then the region completely unstable. First of all, the very least of our problems is the price of gas is going to absolutely go through the roof and we will likely run out. Secondly, China and Russia will get involved and thus World War III will be inevitable. This sounds like a crazy theory but it is exactly what is going to happen if we pull out now. The president knows this and that is why he will fight for the stability regardless of cost just as we all should. If that part of the world collapses the world will quickly follow. I pray for this ignorant liberal country.
Mr. Comier does being a 'slut', as you put it, make it acceptable that Ms. Lynch was taken prisoner, raped and injured?
As I recall being a slut means enjoying sex ALOT and with as many partners that are willing. If indeed Ms. Lynch is a 'slut' I wonder how many military men are 'sluts' and still serve our country with great patriotism, and yet being a slut is not the first thing that is mentioned about them.... mmm...
As for Mr. Tillman, I can see how you know for a fact that he was a coward and was indeed shot by his own. Since you where there you must have been the one to have pulled the trigger. How good of you to have done so. Please, be quick and jump on the firs plane to Washington, your witness statement is severly needed. Oh, but.... where you actually there?
You claimed to have served our country? Please go back and correct all the wrongs, I'm sure you will be awarded well.
On a personal note, I look forward to the next Presidecy. What we have at this time has been off track not just with the war(s) in the middle east but our nation as well. It is my hope we all vote our conscious and choose wisely, after all the office of the Presidency works for us, we are the Employer.
After reading every single post, I found 3 that were intelligent and had some real content. Now THAT'S the real American tragedy.
kevin cormier, does benig a medic/ nurse qualify you as a combatant soldier
I THINK NOT. you were stuck in a field hospital safe and secure while real true soldiers were facind hell on a daily if not hourly basis.while i do agree that you served your time and thank you for that you are still a whiney B***h for calling jessica a slut . and as i figured you know nothing about bieng a pow
to kevin cormier: You are a complete joke. you're probably some snot-nosed teenager writing from the safety of your teeny-bopper bedroom while waiting for your mommy to call you down from dinner. So let's see, you knew jessica lynch, you know what it is to be hated (that's are real eye-opener), you were a nurse, a medic in Afghanistan and in Iraq. I bet you were a warrior in Tolkien's underworld too! You are a laugh a minute. Please continue to spin your fiction for us! I'm sure you're making people like you so very proud. Eat it snot-boy!
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