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By Stone Martindale Sep 19, 2006, 1:50 GMT
Pope burned in effigy as Muslim anger simmers
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Older Talkback
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Violence perpetrated by radical elements motivated by an extremist Islamic ideology is an enormous threat to civilization, including Muslims. There is a fierce battle underway between the non-Muslim West and the Muslim extremists for the hearts and minds of moderate Muslims. The extremists and their followers number in the many millions, but Islam has one and a half billion adherents and the moderates still greatly outnumber the extremists. This battle will be fought in the churches, synagogues, mosques, and media rather than on a battlefield, and its outcome is still in doubt. Anyone who provides ammunition to the extremists is their ally, however inadvertently, and the cost could be enormous. The Pope has provided that kind of ammunition with his ill-advised remarks.
Not to be outdone, of course, the extremists have responded with acts and threats of murderous violence, as if to prove that Islam is as bad as its worst critics make it out to be. Each side, it seems, is playing a game of 'What can I do to make my side lose and help the other side win?'
There is relatively little that we who are not Muslim can do to exert a direct influence on the extremists. We can implement security measures against terrorism, and we can engage in counter-terrorism measures - even violent counterterrorism measures - when the opportunity arises. In the long run, though, our influence will be greater to the extent that communication with the moderates persuades them that the extremists, rather than we, are their enemy. That is something that will not resonate strongly when it is preached by us. For that message to be powerful, it must best come from the Muslim side of the equation.
The Pope's remarks have been singularly unhelpful. Rather than condemn religious violence as it exists today, he chose to feature a condemnation of Mohammed, a man who lived many violent centuries ago, for endorsing violence for religious purposes. Having read his entire speech, I can say that his remarks in context are just as troubling as they are reported out of context. Having quoted a condemnation of Mohammed, he did nothing in the speech to distance himself from it, and his belated disclaimers of the past day or so merely suggest hypocrisy rather than an attempt to correct the record. The absurdity of it all stems from the fact that all of the major monotheistic religions can quote scriptural justification for violence, and those justifications have been acted out in past centuries - in Crusades, Inquisitions, and the like - in a fashion every bit as horrific as any terrorist action occurring today. To reject violence today by vilifying Mohammed seems to me to epitomize a combination of foolishness and misguided attribution of blame that is hard to fathom.
The Pope should do what he has not yet done - apologize. What he has done so far is in fact worse than saying nothing. His alleged 'apologies' to date, can be roughly translated as saying, 'I'm sorry if you're so stupid that you misinterpreted my perfectly innocent remarks to mean something that anyone with half a brain would realize are not what I intended.' That attitude - blaming the offended party for the problem, connotes a moral cowardice and a small-mindedness that ill befits the leader of a major world religion. By apology, I mean a true apology - the one that says, 'I was wrong, you were right to be upset, I'm sorry, and I hope you will forgive me.' Most people can tell the difference between the Pope's 'apology' and an apology.
It's not too late. The Pope's remarks have done harm, but a true, gracious apology could do immense good.
Fill in the blank:
Dinosaurs were finished by a commet. Humanity will finish because of ...........
Let me get this strait. Musilms are angry that they were refered to as 'evil and inhuman', so they are declairing war, attacking churches, and making consiperacy theories that involves everyone else plotting to destory their way of life. I am begining to think that the Pope doesn't need to issue any further appolagies. If most of these extreamist were children they would be punished for throwing such a tantrum.
What really gets to me..are the muslim people who murder in the name of their god..who burn flags of other countries..who will say or do whatever they please, and thats ok, because thats their religious rights thats what they believe in...The Pope only spoke the truth...the cartoon they were so upset over..showed it like it is...what do they expect from other countries..when you see them jumping around yelling, killing, car bombing, blowing up building..etc...and to call what they are doing a Holy War....I would like to know...just what does the word Holy mean to them??..there is nothing Holy about it....these Muslims that are causing all this trouble in the world will lose in the end...a bully is always knocked down......I would also like to know...how was a nun a threat to them..that they had to kill her?...Just goes to show who the fruitloops of the world are...
I sick to death of having to pander to the likes of extremists who are backed up every time by their moderate brothers. Where the hell is the united Muslim outcry over terrorism in the west? Where is the Muslim brotherhood when it comes to carving out a nice slice of Iraq for them to rule over?
Muslim's should be embarrised that their religion is being hijacked by gangsters and warmongers. These people are a far greater threat to Islam than any Western war machine.
Its time the moderate majority got off their back sides, cleaned house of these idiots in their midst and understood that they have to integrate into modern culture or step out of it but they can't have both.
Just wondering when the Muslims are going to
apologize to the rest of the world for all of
their extreme antics (terrorism)? These people
are a bunch of monkeys and I for one am tired
of all of the attention the media gives them.
If I want to see monkeys I'll go to the zoo.
(Apologies to those offended but that's how
I feel as of 10:57 on a Monday night.)
I would just like to say that I am glad there is at least 1 website where I can express my oppinion about this.
1) What kind of relgious people bash, disprespect and take cheep knocks at others?? Pope Benedict said nothing to anybodys offense. In fact our last Pope has been calling for unity amont religions, and tolerance. Nobody is without a sin, and no religion is free of mistakes. But doesn't God want us to forgive eachother, and live in peace? What we need is not people who will blow themselves up in the name of their relgius ideas. What we need is people who will pick up suffering and sacrifice in their lives, helping others and contributing to society. Thats what relgions teaches (or should teach), values, morality, respect.
2) I am particularly pissed off at Iranian president for encuraging the protests. If I had any sympathy and willigness to understand Iran point of view, right now I am totally turned off by the idea of these people having any sort of nuclear capabilities. It seems to me that that what they are looking for is imposing their extremist views on everybody else. I am getting a feeling that I might have actually underestimated just how many Islamic religious fantics there are out there. Its scary.
Why should he apologize any more?
These maniacs are trying to conquer the world. They need to be challenged, and they need to be stopped. Not appeased.
It's time for the rest of the world to put its foot down and stop grovelling before these madmen. Stop blaming the victims for exercising free speech, or the right to self-defense. What we are facing is not the fault of Danish caroonists, or Pope Benedict, or Israel. 9/11 took place during peacetime.
The violence we see is the product of an extremely sick culture: one that includes many people who believe it is their God-given command to convert the entire world to Islam; and many who would rather slaughter than engage in even the mildest exercises of self-examination. Muslims who are offended by this reality should challenge this reality, rather than rage against non-Muslims who dare to take notice, or take action.
pop has gon mad he must appolige
first of all I even dont trust the pape because thats not real i mean is not the real religion secondly he've got a nnazi background and definitely what he said dont upset me because he' himself from the evil side.Kill bennedict 16 and kill george bush and all of the people aligned in their ideologie.
Brilliant.
The Pope quotes an ancient king, who said Islam is violent.
In reaction to this heinous accusation, Muslims riot, kill people and protest. Violently.
You really couldn't make it up - could you?
..since there is nothing to apologize about????!!!!!
The 14th-century Byzantine emperor was right. The muslims are the bringers of evil! What else can you call the murder of a nun because somebody had a different opinion than them. What else can you call a muslim bomber who walked in between canadian troops handing out sweets to innocent children and blowing up the hildren along with the canadian troops that were killed in Afgahnistan.
The trouble with the Muslim religion is that they have no elected leader or head of their religion other than in the afterlife. This means that any bitter and twisted individual can set themselves up as a cleric or leader and spout the most bitter rhetoric of hate to suit their own ends. The part that seperates the muslims from decent people is that thousands of them will run out on the streets and persue that hate and evil because they are looking to hate anybody that does not follow their religion.
To fmoolten:
1) There ARE no 'moderate' Muslims. Each and every follower of Islam is a Muslim first. - Then comes being a man [or woman], being a father, son, brother, uncle and as a last: a native to a country.
Each and every follower of Islam will never let go of the Koran, no matter how old-fashioned.
To expect the less violent Muslims to come to 'our side', is an impossibility. They will ALWAYS take the Muslim's side.
2) There is absolutely no need for the Pope to apologise. The truth may be hard, but if you're 'offended', or your 'sensibilities' are hurt, go to court.
By murdering a nun, setting churches on fire and call for the death of the Pope, you prove the man was correct in his remarks.
3) The way to stop Islam is to stop seeing it as a 'religion'.
It's a violent indoctrination and needs to be addressed as such, before it is spread all over the world.
the pope was wrong to say wht he said
muslims are united unlike christan and catholics which have so many seperate churches for blacks,whites,asians. muslims have a mosque which welcomes all regardless to skin color. muslims therefore r more welcoming/better culutured
The Pope did not say anything offensive, it is the media that reported a lone paragraph of His whole speech (who's provoking?). That the muslims reacted as they did coincides with the comment of this King the Pope mentioned in his speech.
It seems it is an organized provocation from the arab media, that whenever anybody speaks they cite only what they need to provoke their own people, so they can run around shouting and menacing (instead of going to work or to school) and forget the problems in their own countries.
So muslims are burning effigies of the Pope..... and yet even so I don't see much condemnation from the west.....
But imagine if a group of catholics burned an effigy of Mohammed .. There would be an avalanche of criticism from every muslim nation, diplomatic action etc.
Muslims seem to think that it's Ok to condemn and slander every other religion but can't take even the mildest criticism of their own. I really am sick of the muslim faith.
Alright, For one, i am a muslim, im 16 and currently live in New Zealand. Its a great country with great, friendly people, with a large mixture of religions and beleifs. I have been living here for 11 years.
I just want to comment about all this rampage about all of the muslims as you all commented on. Firstly, no religion has just good people in it, every person has a bad side. Some people are good and some are evil, and do wrong things. I do agree that there is no need to do anything to the west. But one thing you have to think about it that, have you ever seen in the News Paper a headline named 'Another Christian killed blablabla' or 'Another Christian in jail'. This has never happend, but in the news paper there is always 'Another muslim did this, another muslim did that blablabla' On news, Arabs are not called individually by their names, but by their reilion, 'Muslims'. And this is what upsets me and fellow friends. And yes, the Pope did say something wrong, and he did apologise, im not sure if that was enough, but different people deal with it differently. And to the person quoted on the first page 'they say they fight for their god' Yes thats correct, they say that but its false. No where in our Quran (bible) does it say that, in no form, it says do not cause trouble, bring peace and harmony. And some people take advantage of that and twist it around. Not all muslims are bad, just like christians, some are good and bad, so please think about that.
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