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Pope burned in effigy as Muslim anger simmers
By Stone Martindale Sep 19, 2006, 1:50 GMT
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Older Talkback
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Violence perpetrated by radical elements motivated by an extremist Islamic ideology is an enormous threat to civilization, including Muslims. There is a fierce battle underway between the non-Muslim West and the Muslim extremists for the hearts and minds of moderate Muslims. The extremists and their followers number in the many millions, but Islam has one and a half billion adherents and the moderates still greatly outnumber the extremists. This battle will be fought in the churches, synagogues, mosques, and media rather than on a battlefield, and its outcome is still in doubt. Anyone who provides ammunition to the extremists is their ally, however inadvertently, and the cost could be enormous. The Pope has provided that kind of ammunition with his ill-advised remarks.
Not to be outdone, of course, the extremists have responded with acts and threats of murderous violence, as if to prove that Islam is as bad as its worst critics make it out to be. Each side, it seems, is playing a game of 'What can I do to make my side lose and help the other side win?'
There is relatively little that we who are not Muslim can do to exert a direct influence on the extremists. We can implement security measures against terrorism, and we can engage in counter-terrorism measures - even violent counterterrorism measures - when the opportunity arises. In the long run, though, our influence will be greater to the extent that communication with the moderates persuades them that the extremists, rather than we, are their enemy. That is something that will not resonate strongly when it is preached by us. For that message to be powerful, it must best come from the Muslim side of the equation.
The Pope's remarks have been singularly unhelpful. Rather than condemn religious violence as it exists today, he chose to feature a condemnation of Mohammed, a man who lived many violent centuries ago, for endorsing violence for religious purposes. Having read his entire speech, I can say that his remarks in context are just as troubling as they are reported out of context. Having quoted a condemnation of Mohammed, he did nothing in the speech to distance himself from it, and his belated disclaimers of the past day or so merely suggest hypocrisy rather than an attempt to correct the record. The absurdity of it all stems from the fact that all of the major monotheistic religions can quote scriptural justification for violence, and those justifications have been acted out in past centuries - in Crusades, Inquisitions, and the like - in a fashion every bit as horrific as any terrorist action occurring today. To reject violence today by vilifying Mohammed seems to me to epitomize a combination of foolishness and misguided attribution of blame that is hard to fathom.
The Pope should do what he has not yet done - apologize. What he has done so far is in fact worse than saying nothing. His alleged 'apologies' to date, can be roughly translated as saying, 'I'm sorry if you're so stupid that you misinterpreted my perfectly innocent remarks to mean something that anyone with half a brain would realize are not what I intended.' That attitude - blaming the offended party for the problem, connotes a moral cowardice and a small-mindedness that ill befits the leader of a major world religion. By apology, I mean a true apology - the one that says, 'I was wrong, you were right to be upset, I'm sorry, and I hope you will forgive me.' Most people can tell the difference between the Pope's 'apology' and an apology.
It's not too late. The Pope's remarks have done harm, but a true, gracious apology could do immense good.
Fill in the blank:
Dinosaurs were finished by a commet. Humanity will finish because of ...........
Let me get this strait. Musilms are angry that they were refered to as 'evil and inhuman', so they are declairing war, attacking churches, and making consiperacy theories that involves everyone else plotting to destory their way of life. I am begining to think that the Pope doesn't need to issue any further appolagies. If most of these extreamist were children they would be punished for throwing such a tantrum.
What really gets to me..are the muslim people who murder in the name of their god..who burn flags of other countries..who will say or do whatever they please, and thats ok, because thats their religious rights thats what they believe in...The Pope only spoke the truth...the cartoon they were so upset over..showed it like it is...what do they expect from other countries..when you see them jumping around yelling, killing, car bombing, blowing up building..etc...and to call what they are doing a Holy War....I would like to know...just what does the word Holy mean to them??..there is nothing Holy about it....these Muslims that are causing all this trouble in the world will lose in the end...a bully is always knocked down......I would also like to know...how was a nun a threat to them..that they had to kill her?...Just goes to show who the fruitloops of the world are...
I sick to death of having to pander to the likes of extremists who are backed up every time by their moderate brothers. Where the hell is the united Muslim outcry over terrorism in the west? Where is the Muslim brotherhood when it comes to carving out a nice slice of Iraq for them to rule over?
Muslim's should be embarrised that their religion is being hijacked by gangsters and warmongers. These people are a far greater threat to Islam than any Western war machine.
Its time the moderate majority got off their back sides, cleaned house of these idiots in their midst and understood that they have to integrate into modern culture or step out of it but they can't have both.
Just wondering when the Muslims are going to
apologize to the rest of the world for all of
their extreme antics (terrorism)? These people
are a bunch of monkeys and I for one am tired
of all of the attention the media gives them.
If I want to see monkeys I'll go to the zoo.
(Apologies to those offended but that's how
I feel as of 10:57 on a Monday night.)
I would just like to say that I am glad there is at least 1 website where I can express my oppinion about this.
1) What kind of relgious people bash, disprespect and take cheep knocks at others?? Pope Benedict said nothing to anybodys offense. In fact our last Pope has been calling for unity amont religions, and tolerance. Nobody is without a sin, and no religion is free of mistakes. But doesn't God want us to forgive eachother, and live in peace? What we need is not people who will blow themselves up in the name of their relgius ideas. What we need is people who will pick up suffering and sacrifice in their lives, helping others and contributing to society. Thats what relgions teaches (or should teach), values, morality, respect.
2) I am particularly pissed off at Iranian president for encuraging the protests. If I had any sympathy and willigness to understand Iran point of view, right now I am totally turned off by the idea of these people having any sort of nuclear capabilities. It seems to me that that what they are looking for is imposing their extremist views on everybody else. I am getting a feeling that I might have actually underestimated just how many Islamic religious fantics there are out there. Its scary.
Why should he apologize any more?
These maniacs are trying to conquer the world. They need to be challenged, and they need to be stopped. Not appeased.
It's time for the rest of the world to put its foot down and stop grovelling before these madmen. Stop blaming the victims for exercising free speech, or the right to self-defense. What we are facing is not the fault of Danish caroonists, or Pope Benedict, or Israel. 9/11 took place during peacetime.
The violence we see is the product of an extremely sick culture: one that includes many people who believe it is their God-given command to convert the entire world to Islam; and many who would rather slaughter than engage in even the mildest exercises of self-examination. Muslims who are offended by this reality should challenge this reality, rather than rage against non-Muslims who dare to take notice, or take action.
pop has gon mad he must appolige
first of all I even dont trust the pape because thats not real i mean is not the real religion secondly he've got a nnazi background and definitely what he said dont upset me because he' himself from the evil side.Kill bennedict 16 and kill george bush and all of the people aligned in their ideologie.
Brilliant.
The Pope quotes an ancient king, who said Islam is violent.
In reaction to this heinous accusation, Muslims riot, kill people and protest. Violently.
You really couldn't make it up - could you?
..since there is nothing to apologize about????!!!!!
The 14th-century Byzantine emperor was right. The muslims are the bringers of evil! What else can you call the murder of a nun because somebody had a different opinion than them. What else can you call a muslim bomber who walked in between canadian troops handing out sweets to innocent children and blowing up the hildren along with the canadian troops that were killed in Afgahnistan.
The trouble with the Muslim religion is that they have no elected leader or head of their religion other than in the afterlife. This means that any bitter and twisted individual can set themselves up as a cleric or leader and spout the most bitter rhetoric of hate to suit their own ends. The part that seperates the muslims from decent people is that thousands of them will run out on the streets and persue that hate and evil because they are looking to hate anybody that does not follow their religion.
To fmoolten:
1) There ARE no 'moderate' Muslims. Each and every follower of Islam is a Muslim first. - Then comes being a man [or woman], being a father, son, brother, uncle and as a last: a native to a country.
Each and every follower of Islam will never let go of the Koran, no matter how old-fashioned.
To expect the less violent Muslims to come to 'our side', is an impossibility. They will ALWAYS take the Muslim's side.
2) There is absolutely no need for the Pope to apologise. The truth may be hard, but if you're 'offended', or your 'sensibilities' are hurt, go to court.
By murdering a nun, setting churches on fire and call for the death of the Pope, you prove the man was correct in his remarks.
3) The way to stop Islam is to stop seeing it as a 'religion'.
It's a violent indoctrination and needs to be addressed as such, before it is spread all over the world.
the pope was wrong to say wht he said
muslims are united unlike christan and catholics which have so many seperate churches for blacks,whites,asians. muslims have a mosque which welcomes all regardless to skin color. muslims therefore r more welcoming/better culutured
The Pope did not say anything offensive, it is the media that reported a lone paragraph of His whole speech (who's provoking?). That the muslims reacted as they did coincides with the comment of this King the Pope mentioned in his speech.
It seems it is an organized provocation from the arab media, that whenever anybody speaks they cite only what they need to provoke their own people, so they can run around shouting and menacing (instead of going to work or to school) and forget the problems in their own countries.
So muslims are burning effigies of the Pope..... and yet even so I don't see much condemnation from the west.....
But imagine if a group of catholics burned an effigy of Mohammed .. There would be an avalanche of criticism from every muslim nation, diplomatic action etc.
Muslims seem to think that it's Ok to condemn and slander every other religion but can't take even the mildest criticism of their own. I really am sick of the muslim faith.
Alright, For one, i am a muslim, im 16 and currently live in New Zealand. Its a great country with great, friendly people, with a large mixture of religions and beleifs. I have been living here for 11 years.
I just want to comment about all this rampage about all of the muslims as you all commented on. Firstly, no religion has just good people in it, every person has a bad side. Some people are good and some are evil, and do wrong things. I do agree that there is no need to do anything to the west. But one thing you have to think about it that, have you ever seen in the News Paper a headline named 'Another Christian killed blablabla' or 'Another Christian in jail'. This has never happend, but in the news paper there is always 'Another muslim did this, another muslim did that blablabla' On news, Arabs are not called individually by their names, but by their reilion, 'Muslims'. And this is what upsets me and fellow friends. And yes, the Pope did say something wrong, and he did apologise, im not sure if that was enough, but different people deal with it differently. And to the person quoted on the first page 'they say they fight for their god' Yes thats correct, they say that but its false. No where in our Quran (bible) does it say that, in no form, it says do not cause trouble, bring peace and harmony. And some people take advantage of that and twist it around. Not all muslims are bad, just like christians, some are good and bad, so please think about that.
Oh fer chrissakes, Unknown Muslim from New-Zealand:
Take a fricking look at the percentages of Muslim-killings.
Take a look at the amount of countries where Muslims kill.
Tell me why a critic of Islam can be nearly decapitated, shot 7 times in the leg and have a knife stuck in his belly - in broad daylight, in AMSTERDAM - and NO-ONE of you, so called 'good Muslims' protested against it.
You are NOT good people.
Not as long as you keep believing in the Koran.
Yet again we find ourselves at another Islamic debacle. The Muslim world wants to be respected, but is not willing to give any respect.
Look at all the foul hate-filled publications coming from the Islamic world - not only in the middle east but in Europe as well. Or the Iranian Holocaust contest. I do not see any Muslim condemnation for that. Nor do I see Christians/Jews rioting in the street calling for mass murder. Yet it's OK for Muslims to act this way.
As for the previous comment, it is true that the media report that a 'Muslim' was arrested - that the offenders are referred to by their religion. But these atrocities are being carried out in the name of Islam. Therefore it is very relevant to state the religion of the offender. When Christians attempt to blow up restaurants for Jesus, then we can refer to them as Christians being arrested. When Jews are arrested for planning to hijack airplanes for Moses, then we can refer to them as Jews being arrested. But at the moment it is mainly an Islamic phenomenon.
The Muslim world does not see right vs. wrong - the only see Islamic vs. non-Islamic. If it's done BY Muslims it's acceptable. If it's done TO Muslims it's a conspiracy.
When the Muslim world equally condemns the atrocities committed in the name of Islam, as much as it condemns everyone else, then we can equally respect the faith. But we have yet to see that.
Is this the way Muslims feel or the way Muslim extremeists feel?
Any claims that this is pushing people over to the extreme is living in a dream world. These people are just looking for excuses to kill others. If I was a Muslim I would condemn the action of these extremeists and distance myself from them. I would also wish to show compassion and by the very action contradict the words of the pope. I am just an athiest, but compassion is human.
I am totally agreeing with almost all of your views here about these retarded islamist groups. I myself am a muslim and in no way agree to what is going on in the world and these monkeys that have and still are hijacking the religion of islam with thier so called rightous actions.
But before i blab on soo much, i come to think to myself where are all the violence comming from? which countries? and why?
To name a few of the contries, is see...
1. Palestine
2. Iraq
3. Afganistan
4. Iran
I come to think it is the same countries the so called 'west' have intruded it's politics and powers over at one time in history.
To name a few 'islamist' groups, i see...
1. Al Quaida
2. Hamas
I come to see that that is really it? there may very well be more, but these 2 or more come from the same damn countries mentioned above, and that makes me think who is really the bully around here?
One point i would also liek to mention to you all is this. Why is the US not after Binladin no more? Is it really cause he is much harder to find than saddam? But weren't they both CIA and extremely close with the US. How should i know they still aren't close and this is all a hollywood Drama Series part gizillion starting from 9/11 and would last as long as the friggin Bold and the Beautiful. I am not convinced with the 9/11 stories, and i still can;t comprehend how after the first plane hit, and they knew the second was redirected in the same path they US did nothing till the second hit 15~20 frikin minutes later? I am not convinced the US was after Binladin when they took afganistan for the GAS pipeline that they are contracting. I am not convinced that Saddam or Iraq had any threat to the West and needed to be invaded because of the mass kurdish killing that Saddam himself back in the days got the green light from the US to do so using US weapons, when right now the US is gaining from the oil in iraq and the contracts. I am not convinsed that the US is scared of Iran and thier right of Nuclear technology. after all why does Israel have them, without mentioning the other gizzillion countries that do including the US.
Again, i am 101% against all these terrorist acts of violence that seem to spurr out from the same sources and from the same places and only to countries that have interfered in the region come to think of it. But i am also 120% against all US polocies and all the comments and acts that i find are a point made across for others by others hiding behind a think mask to get an outcome that is beyond any of our understanding.
I just think that before you all make comments such as the ones you did, (which are completely right and understandble) given truely understand the situation and the history behind all these UNKNOWNS, i suggest you look back and reflect to what the truth really is and not to just react to what is thrown to our faces on a daily basis from the bias media.
Look at Hizbolla for example. They have not made suicide attacks in the war. they have not invaded or threatened any nation. yes the kidnapped israeli soldiers, but who's standing up for the 1000's of lebanese people prisoned in Lebanon. this recent war was not because of 3 soldiers and i feel sorry for those idiots who are soo shallow to think so. these matters are way way deaper than what we may even think we truely know and understand. Plus even in hizbolla did suicide attacks they were done inside lebanon.
Has anyone come to think of this point of view! Which country in the world has the highest levels of suicides in the world! Definately not any Arab or Muslim nation. the US may come top of the list. So lets assume the few suiciders in Palestine, who's families, lives, work, land, homes, everything has been taken away. Not only would anyone become suicidal, but for the sake of argument, lets say it made him angry! well anger + suicidal = terrorism?
If you are an American, and hypothetically speaking the US was invaded hardcore by some nation. your home and land and family was killed and taken away. you see your enemy but have no means no technoligy to fight back but to starp TNT and go f*** em up. I would sure as hell do it. Would i be called a terrorist for doing so as an american in america? then why the hell are the palestinians and iraqis terrorist in thier word countries? I dunno...
Please forgive my long point of view, damn i could go on for ever. Attacks such as 9/11 are not at all related to islam or the purity of islam. Neither is the killing of many inocent people. But maybe the US had a role in it or if not, turned a blind eye on it for the greater good of the US it is in today. maybe US economy is down and marines dying, but behind every war and every fall is a great boost!
After all, the toonish Prophet pictures, the comment Bush said and the comment Pope said about islam and the prophet are all BS to me. I could care less, not cause i myself care less. But because who is Bush and the pope to me? no one i look up to nor believe in thier polocies or views. Hell some christions don;t even believe in their views. The vatican is sooo unbelievably currupt it's not even funny. Soon they'll have stocks up for grabs on the NYSE for all i know. After all, who is smarter? Definately the west and their idiologies. But just because they are smarted does that make them correct? hmmm!
Why is it that no one in the media can ask themselves the question: Did the Pope tell the truth?
As far as the bit about Mohammad teaching that his faith be spread by the sword, history and the Muslim scriptures all too obviously confirm this.
And one more thing to say to the media, stop comparing 'Christian violence' to 'Muslim violence'. Christ taught pascifism. Muhammad taught (and practiced) war. He attacked and plundered the caravans of people who had not harmed him in any way. Fact. Now, I would ask the Muslims, is this true or not? And also, please stop being childish.
Someone should burn a effigy of Mohammad, but stand back because I'm sure it will light that bomb on his turban.
If John Paul were still alive, it wouldn't have happened... Oh, yea, and don't forget: there are Christian extremists too. Like those self-rightious jerks that protest at soldier funerals, or that group that likes to bomb abortion clinics. Not that I'm defending Muslim extremists, all I'm saying is EVERYONE needs to take a good hard look at themselves before taking up any crusades.
Ronald...in response to your post....you know what would hit the fan...if that was to happen...Now I am not talking about all Muslims...just the trouble causers..........you people are nothing more then big sissies...cry babies...look at you all..jumping around with guns...like big bad boys...killing innocent people..burning flags...crying out, the pope said something I did not like even though it was true...the danes posted cartoons...boo hoo...grow up and start acting like civilized people...no one wants to hear your BS anymore !!
'We say to the servant of the cross (the pope): wait for defeat... We say to infidels and tyrants: wait for what will afflict you. We continue our jihad. We will not stop until the banner of unicity flies throughout the world,'
Not another 'word' we have to learn the meaning of from that region over there!
'We say to the servant of the cross (the pope): wait for defeat... We say to infidels and tyrants: wait for what will afflict you. We continue our jihad. We will not stop until the banner of unicity flies throughout the world,'
Not another 'word' we have to learn the meaning of from that region over there!
What's Uncity?? this is for you......explain yourself... who ever you are...
Nothing short of a beheading will do - it seems.
What is being vented by the Muslims is more than just a little anger - this is a philosophy.
I think part of what is shocking to Westerners is that we are not listening - these people are not just angry - they are telling up - unequivocally - that they intend to take us over and place Europe under Islamic rule.
Whether someone like the Pope offends them or not - this is what they believe that they should do - anyway. So being extra nice to the Muslim, as to be extra careful not to cause offense, even in the slightest way – is a bogus idea.
We can't appease this - and we may have to fight it off - literally.
Take mosque building
The Muslims wanted to build a mosque right next to the Vatican - that day should come when someone is allowed to build a Church or Synagogue near Mecca.
Notice we are giving and giving, but we are not getting back from these Muslims.
It is only so far - we can bend over backwards.
'We will not stop until the banner of unicity flies throughout the world,'
'the banner of unicity'
What is this???
Saudi Arabia better put its dogs on a leash –
If these people think we are going to 'let them' take over the West/Rest or the World they are - so dreaming !!
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Cite This Source
unicity
\U*nic'i*ty\, n. [L. unicus single. See Unique.] The condition of being united; quality of the unique; unification.
Not unity, but what the schoolmen call unicity. --De Quincey.
The unicity we strive not to express, for that is impossible, but to designate by the nearest analogy. --Coleridge.
Did any of you attend school? Or did you sleep through basic English?
Must have been asleep during the 'Unicity' lesson!
They aim to change us all into Islamic Automatons,
who will submit without reason or rationalization – under the ‘Banner of Unicity’ of the ‘Arab Republic of Islamic Totalitarian Global Rule’ or [A.R.I.T.G.R] for short?
I honestly see just a few outcomes to this.
1) It'll all blow over as the media is blowing it out of proportion.
2) It'll escalate and we'll be plunged into the bloodiest war known to man
3) Aliens will land, point out what retards we all are, bring about world peace... then eat us.
4) Muslim's will clean house, kick out the radical elements within their religion and realise that living life according to an ancient text in a modern world is kind of incompatible.
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