Obama, McCain woo Christian voters at faith forum
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Aug 17, 2008, 3:04 GMT
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Wait until Christian voters hear about his vote to allow doctors to deny care to babies who had survived an attempted abortion. That's right, Obama voted to just allow babies born alive to just die:
Documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an IL state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion - even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language, copied from a federal bill passed by Congress without objection in 2002, explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion. Obamas legislative actions in 2003 - denying effective protection even to babies born alive during abortions - were contrary to the position taken on the same language by even the most liberal members of Congress. The bill Obama killed was virtually identical to the federal bill that even NARAL ultimately did not oppose.
www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/08/breaking_news_n_1.html
Doug Johnson of the National Right to Life Committee drew my attention to a previously unnoticed January 2008 article by Terence Jeffrey stating Barack Obama actually did vote against a version of the IL Born Alive Infants Protection Act that was identical to the federal version, contrary to multiple public statements Obama or his surrogates have made to rationalize his opposition to the IL bill for the past 4 years.
Since then we have found 2 separate documents proving Barack Obama has been misrepresenting facts.
In fact, Barack Obama is more liberal than any U.S. senator, voting against identical language of a bill that body passed unanimously, 98-0. In fact, Barack Obama condones infanticide if it would otherwise interfere with abortion.
Here is the statement with documentation released by NRLC this morning...
New documents just obtained by NRLC, and linked below, prove that Senator [Barack] Obama has for the past four years blatantly misrepresented his actions on the IL Born-Alive Infants Protection bill.
Summary and comment by NRLC spokesman Douglas Johnson:
Newly obtained documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an IL state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion - even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language, copied from a federal bill passed by Congress without objection in 2002, explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion. Obama's legislative actions in 2003 - denying effective protection even to babies born alive during abortions - were contrary to the position taken on the same language by even the most liberal members of Congress. The bill Obama killed was virtually identical to the federal bill that even NARAL ultimately did not oppose.
In 2000, the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act was first introduced in Congress. This was a two-paragraph bill intended to clarify that any baby who is entirely expelled from his or her mother, and who shows any signs of life, is to be regarded as a legal 'person' for all federal law purposes, whether or not the baby was born during an attempted abortion.
Full article and links here:
www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/08/breaking_news_n_1.html
take your politics and shove them where the sun don't shine. You are not commenting, but politicing. What are you, a paid stooge of the GOP(Graft,Obfuscation,Prefidy)? I repeat, because you are a little more than dense in the head department, Sod off, yank-er.
Canadians can't vote here you pathetic loser. No one on either side of the border cares what you think. Go off yourself.
McCain was sharp, fast and funny. He actually appeared to have more energy than Obama. And he was a heck of a lot sharper. McCain never hesitated. He had the ease and confidence of a man who has firmly thought through his positions and is comfortable with his beliefs.
Like Obama, McCain never shyed away from tough questions. While Obama occasionally answered questions more thoroughly than McCain, Obama's slower pace and rambling answers came off as nuanced and lacking in confidence when compared to McCain.
I've just watched the forum a second time. I don't know how he did it, but McCain had more charisma tonight than Obama. This just wasn't the way it was supposed to be! anyone who thought it would be a lopsided election with Obama's youth, superb communication skills and strong position on the issues simply sweeping away the wrinkly old white haired guy needs to think again.
If tonight was Round One, McCain won handily. Obama is in for the fight of his life!
I see the GOP dirty trick department is active again.Defending unborn life ?Once it is born it will be unprotected :the people from the GOP have no problem defending the use of cluster bombs,land mines and other weapons of mass destruction aimed specifically at civilians .When will the USA sign the treaties that ban these weapons ,most other countries di?Double standards and hypocrisy rule unfortunately .Perhaps time to reflect on moral issues in a brader perspective .True christians should consider moral standards on larger issues such as these rather than confine their principles on moral issues fed to you by those that want you to look away from moral equally important issues.
Why give attention to one only?
The candidates are doing nothing more than their mating dance to get the evangelical votes. From their perspective it only makes sense. But I have my doubts that either candidate is really concerned for any religious denomination other than that the winner of the November elections will be sworn to uphold those rights for the American citizens.
By far McCain hold to the closer standards for conservative Christianity. But that would more likely be because of the Republican Partyfs dictates on such issues, rather than by his personal choice.
Rick Warren will likely come out of this forum as the winner with all the additional popularity hefll gain through it. With Billy Graham in the twilight days of his life, and Jerry Falwell gone on to heaven where hefs finally getting his pastoral theology straightened out, Warren is probably looking to become the new gspiritual advisorh to the president. However, in the process hefs walking a very fine line. It is illegal in the United States for a pastor to endorse any political candidate from his pulpit or platform for preaching.
I personally find political forums of this nature distasteful all around. Although the separation between Church and State issue has been blown light years out of proportion in the past 50 years, this is one area where I personally feel it should be maintained and politics should stay out of religion and vice-versa.
'?Once it is born it will be unprotected '
Barack Obama voted against protecting babies that survived an attempted abortion. Stating that is not a 'dirty trick', it is the fact.
'the people from the GOP have no problem defending the use of cluster bombs,land mines and other weapons of mass destruction aimed specifically at civilians'
That is a lie. None of our munitions are 'aimed specifically at civilians'.
'When will the USA sign the treaties that ban these weapons'
When countries like Belgium can be counted on for genuine support in institutions like NATO instead of getting a free ride and complaining about the way other people defend you.
'Double standards and hypocrisy rule unfortunately '
Tell me about it.
'True christians should consider moral standards on larger issues such as these rather than confine their principles on moral issues fed to you by those that want you to look away from moral equally important issues.'
You are too ill informed to lecture, too morally skewed to judge and you don't have a vote in our elections. Fix your own country before you would presume to tell us how to run ours.
I don't want to get to overheated about what occurred tonight, but I do think McCain had a clear and decisive victory over Obama. It all comes down to something that Phil Bredesen, the Democratic governor of Tennessee recently said about Obama: Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.
By that standard, McCain did extremely well and Obama did very poorly. McCain's answers were direct, confident and, most importantly, serious. When asked about what leaders he would consult as president, he first suggested Gen. Petraeus, architect of the surge, who he correctly praised as one of America's all-time great military leaders. By way of contrast, Obama suggested he would seek out the advice of a 'typical white person', err, his grandmother and his wife Michelle, who's still trying to decide whether she's proud of her country.
When asked 'At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?,' McCain answered 'At the moment of conception.' Obama's answer here was flaming-dirigible bad:
Whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is, you know, above my pay grade.
That spectacularly inept metaphor is going to haunt Obama throughout the rest of the campaign.
one can see both these guys are not right in the head .
everyone in their right mind knows God is a fairy tail just like santa claus and the easter bunny .a story that was thought up way back and passed on for generations .im 68 and was told that story when i was a kid...
tonny from belgium: 'Defending unborn life ? ... the people from the GOP have no problem defending the use of cluster bombs,land mines'
Obviously the solution, in this insane world, is to kill unborn babies by inserting land minds up the vessels of their incubators.
Sure, it may seem gruesome and insensitive, but that is the way it works. Sometimes compromise produces the strangest bed fellows. Such as when christians mass kill muslims without mass killing muslims. It isn't that they are killing muslims, it is just that the corpuscular vessel that they are terminating happens to be occupied by a muslim at the time.
There is no sense to such acts, and they are not relegated to the U.S. It just happens that at this time the U.S., and Bush, are the biggest and most powerful hypocrite and bringer of death that the world has ever seen with hundreds of millions of dedicated followers that drink the sugar water of jesus in order to rationalize anything.
The choice is obvious: Kill and you are a killer. Don't kill and you are not a killer.
Also, using ideology as an excuse to mass kill people is plainly stupid and not a legitimate reason for mass killing people.
Spreading democracy by mass kill people defeats democracy.
Spreading the values of jesus by mass kill people defeats jesus.
People that do such things are a sham and have dishonored themselves.
Another dirty trick from those in the GOP dirty trick internet task force that claim Obama kills babies (how revolting can you get making such scandalous free affirmations ) is simply by obfuscating the difference between a baby ,embryos and unborn life .Make the definitions as nebulous and unspecified as possible is the motto from these fine gentlemen ,that way you make every counter argument difficult .Fine then,state your arguments about the right to abortion a little bit less elusive and then we can yalk .Accusing a presidential candidate to be a child assassin could only be used by the GOP 's revolting dirty trick department .Is Karl Rove still working with you guys ?Remember the swift boat campaign?That one worked out really well for you,but times are changing .It will probe more difficult to impose your gross lies on the majority of the people .and with idiots like SP4 on your side,you are in fact counter-productive .Thank you for showing to the rest of the world how insane you all are and what kind of democracy you stand for .The issues are the economy,climate change,the price of the petrol,your financial crisis amongst others .By taking the discussion to other terrain you only show that you fear those subjects .We al know why...
ain't no Canucks here, dickweed. Try again. EssPee doesn't need a wimpy little slut like you to defend him. But then, who am I responding to except the multi-personality disorder man, EssPee itself.
Yes, Tonny, Karl Rove has an ironclad strategy:
Just let them be who they are.
Positively diabolical, huh?
Obama, who belongs to a Pseudo-Christian-Hate Cult, certainly does not need to have Karl Rove undermine him...he did that all by himself.
I know it's hard to swallow, but the Catholic Church, no matter what you think of them, is anassailable on the subject of life, unborn or otherwise. You'd know this if you would inform yourself, or at least admit you are biased. Curiously, the liberal churches, Catholic, Southern Baptist, etc., all still oppose abortion. In fact, almost as many Democrats as republicans do.
As for the issues, we just witnessed the Democratic Primary, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but health care hardly ever came up which was somewhat of a surprise, until you consider the presumptive candidate. In fact, they trashed the supposed health care candidate.
Oil seems to even had it's run, and it looks to me like the dems look more like Republicans every day! I know, it's a sham but it IS uplifting Tonny! What does Nancy Pelosi communicate when she rolls on domestic drilling?
I think that, pretty much skewers your diatribe, through and through. The American political system is complex, Tonny, and you really need to study a lot harder.
Of course, it's been a pleasure.
Of course if you are Republican and a Catholic you are right on the money about everything - right SP? Abortion is a slippery slop, and there isn't one rule that works for every situation regardless - such as, would you abort a fetus to save the mother who already has several living children, etc., etc. Generalization is never good in any situation!
sp4 said awile back hat if he had his way he would kill every democrate he could. and i beleive it.
when you get right down to it
Mccain is a phoney bastard just like bush and sp4 is.
and bush is phoney and deranged too.....like sp4 ...lol
' Abortion is a slippery slop, and there isn't one rule that works for every situation regardless'
If a baby survives the attempted abortion and is alive on the table then what? It is no longer abortion is it? Obama voted to just let those babies die. That is beyond even what the abortion advocates would advocate.
let god sort them out.
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