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May 30, 2008, 6:09 GMT
US Army suicides up from a year ago (corrected)
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What the article fails to mention is that the suicide rate of our soldiers is very close to that of the general population in the same age group. More spin and lies of omission from the media.
actually I heard it was lower than the corresponding age roup in the general population
Actually everybody is just guessing unles statistics are made,meanwhile another view on the subject
rinf.com/alt-news/contributions/general/emails-suggest-cover-up-of-vets -suicide-rate/3190/
Tonny, you can find lots of differing stats on the subject via the internet. Some say more suicides,some say less and others, about the same. All I can say is that I'm sick to death of being manipulated through outright lies and also lies of omission by both the right and left media in this country. Some honesty without a political agenda would be refreshing.
It's just a very sad situation at any rate whether it's lower, higher whatever. All these so-called statistics don't make it better does it? Nor blaming it on propaganda - my heart goes out to all of them and their families.
Marci, I'm not saying that all suicides aren't tragic-they certainly are. I'm saying that choosing one group whose suicide rates have gone up and not reporting that they've also gone up in the general population is sketchy at best. If the media reported that Moveon.org suicides were rising but failed to report that the numbers basically coincide with the general population, I'd see that reporting as biased and as having a political motive. I can spot it being used on both sides and it's a an underhanded practice.
To Kathy:
It dosn't matter that the population is increasing, what matters is that more of these people are killing themselves. I am against useing this fact for pollitical gain, but the fact remains, more of them are killing themselves.
Why should there even be a discussion about whether the statistics are right or wrong - I agree that's it's a sad situation in any case, and don't feel it necessary to put the blame on right or wrong statistics on anyone one way or another - seems pretty petty!
'It dosn't matter that the population is increasing, what matters is that more of these people are killing themselves.'
Its the hot new trend Dan, all the cool kids are doing it.
there is still NO mention of the US soaring desertion rate.The US are now coming down really heavily on their deserters.Try GOOGLE SEARCH for discussion WWW.(Nice to hear both sides even if you don't agree)
'there is still NO mention of the US soaring desertion rate'
Because it isn't soaring...
and exactly where is the proof of your assertion? It's not OK to make a point without backing it up. All you do is come across as a moron. So where are your sources? Do you have any? Or are you just some brainwashed nay sayer?
Just so that you don't get a blister on your finger trying to Google, read this, from the International Herald Tribune (Global version of New York Times): US Army desertion rates rise 80 percent since 2003 Iraq invasion; highest rate since 1980. According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared with nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared with 3,301 last year.
So, I think that effectively shuts you up.
It looks like that poster took about 6 minutes to come up with stats about a situation that you say doesn't exist. Are you lazy or just stupid.
To the 3 sockpuppets:
The story you linked back to was from the associated press.
www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/17/america/NA-GEN-US-Military-Deserters .php
American thinker does a good job eviscerating it:
ABRIDGED:
Associated Press writes a story headlined, 'Army Desertion Rate Up 80 Pct. Since '03.'
'Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003....While the totals are still far lower than they were during the Vietnam War, when the draft was in effect, they show a steady increase over the past four years and a 42 percent jump since last year....Army desertion rates have fluctuated since the Vietnam War - when they peaked at 5 percent.'
According to this AP story, 9 in every 1,000 soldiers 'went AWOL' in fiscal ending September 30, 2007. In the year ended September 30, 2006, nearly 7 per 1,000 were AWOL. The article uses the terms AWOL and desertion interchangeably even though they are not the same. A deserter is a member of the armed forces who remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away permanently or goes away from his unit with the intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service. e.g. during times of war. Article 85 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
When you click on a side-box video on MSNBC's version of the AP Story, NBC's Brian Williams tells us that 'the number of desertions is way up since the 6 years we've been at war.' Then Jim Miklaszewski tells us of a dramatic spike in the last two years that appears to be due to multiple combat tours in Iraq. Miklaszewski tells us that during the (you guessed it!) Vietnam War, deserters fled to Canada. Likewise in this war, after 6 months in Iraq an Army PFC fled to Canada with his family... just like Mik's generation did 40 years ago. And of course they interview the other solider who fled to Canada, who is naturally against the war, and therefore is shown denouncing the war, stating that his reason for deserting was that it was a 'bogus war'... no WMD... 'no links to international terrorism'.... You've heard it all before.
This is all interesting. But are these rates that AP hypes in its article high or low relative to other periods in history. Relative to other wars, for instance. What do you think?
According to author Rod Powers (who spent 23 years in the Air Force), the desertion rates per 1,000 for the Army and Marines from 1997 through 2004 are as follows:
ARMY
1997 2,218 4.58 per 1,000
1998 2,520 5.20 per 1,000
1999 2,966 6.13 per 1,000
2000 3,949 8.16 per 1,000
2001 4,597 9.50 per 1,000
2002 4,483 9.26 per 1,000
2003 3,678 7.60 per 1,000
2004 2,376 4.91 per 1,000
Marine Corps
1997 1,375 7.94 per 1,000
1998 1,460 8.43 per 1,000
1999 1,689 9.75 per 1,000
2000 2,019 11.66 per 1,000
2001 1,310 7.57 per 1,000
2002 1,136 6.56 per 1,000
2003 1,236 7.14 per 1,000
2004 1,297 7.49 per 1,000
Look at the above rates of Army desertion in the years just prior to the Iraq war. Years 2000, 2001, and 2002 (8.16, 9.5, 9.26) show higher rates than we have had during this 'terrible quagmire' of an Iraq war, with its multiple tours of duty.
Why doesn't AP correspondent Lolita C. Baldur discuss that?
Powers states that in the fiscal year the Iraq war began (the invasion was March 2003) the desertion rate was 7.6 per 1,000, the same as 2006, a terrible year for the U.S. in Iraq. The AP article seems to be confused as to fiscal years. According to Powers, the desertion rate was quite low, 4.91, for fiscal year 2004 (from October 1, 2003 through September 30, 2004), not fiscal 2003 as stated in the AP article.
A rate of less that 5 per 1,000 eight months after the start of the Iraq War? This is a rate that was much lower than the rate prior to the beginning of the Iraq War.
The AP article also does a poor job of putting these desertion rates in historical context. It was just a year and a half ago that another news organization was exclaiming how historically low the desertion rates were then: 'U.S. Military Desertion Rate Drops'
With about 15 minutes of internet research, even a non-journalist can put the Iraq War desertion rates in context. What was the desertion rate during World War II?
'Desertion during World War II was no less a problem than in previous wars. Desertion rates peaked at 6.3% [that's 63 per 1,000] in 1944, but dropped to 4.5% [45 per 1,000] the following year. During the war, 21,049 soldiers were sentenced for desertion...' Desertion And the American Soldier: 1776-2006, Robert Fantina, Page 116.
That was 'The Greatest Generation'! So how great is today's generation of soldiers who have a desertion rate of 1/10th the rate of The Greatest?
Of all the guys who served during World War II, over two thirds of them were drafted. What percent of today's soldiers are draftees?
www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/military_desertion_rates_and_t.html
So no, no '80% rise', no 'soaring desertion rates', just a bitter little thing writing her bitter little anti-military babble on the internet, not surprising you are wrong again.
In re: Rod Powers. Exactly what are his credentials? I would prefer to believe a source like the New York times than some name randomly dropped in. So, that does NOT 'effectively shuts you up' as you so ineloquently put it, Mr. SP's sock puppet toe jam. By the way, is Rod Power the younger, dumber brother of Austen Powers? He could be, considering the fantasy world you live in.
'In re: Rod Powers. Exactly what are his credentials? '
Just so that you don't get a blister on your finger trying to Google, read this: Rod Powers is a retired Air Force First Sergeant with 22 years of active duty service.
Experience:
Rod has covered the US Military for About.com since 1999. He is the author of ASVAB for Dummies and Barrons' Officer Candidate School Tests. Rod is wholly familiar with military life, having been stationed or deployed to several bases around the world during his 22 years of service. His military decorations include the Meritorious Service Medal with three oak-leaf clusters.
Education:
Powers is a distinguished graduate of the Air Force NCO Academy, Senior NCO Academy, and the Air Force First Sergeant Academy.
And what are Lolita C. Baldur's military credentials? Oh yeah, she doesn't have any.
'I would prefer to believe a source like the New York times than some name randomly dropped in. '
They are DOD statistics, not randomly dropped in.
Here, The Washington post believable?
Don't Believe the Desertions Story
New Army statistics showing that desertions have risen 80 percent since 2003, and that desertions are at their highest rate since Vietnam, have been swept up into the debate about the Iraq war.
But a look at the numbers shows that this story is not as clear -- nor, necessarily, as significant -- as it would seem. The only clear trend is the increasing willingness of both the pro-military and anti-war factions to appropriate any statistic in their effort to make their case and, in the process, divide our society.
The Associated Press suggested that this seemingly dramatic 80 percent increase is connected to the fact that 'the Army continues to bear the brunt of the war demands with many soldiers serving repeated, lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.' CBS News picked up the AP story and added that 'nearly 64 percent of last year's desertions were reported from April to December... which would suggest the pace is picking up.'
[...]The facts, unfortunately, do not fit the trend. The Army desertion rate is about the same as it was before the Iraq invasion. Yes, there were 4,698 deserters in 2007, compared to 3,301 in 2006. That's a 42 percent increase in one year. But there were 4,483 deserters in 2002, and 4,597 in 2001. The decline in 2003, 2004 and 2005, according to the Army, had more to do with changes in personnel policies -- and efforts to identify soldiers likely to desert from basic training -- than the war.
washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/11/dont_believe_the_desertions_st. html
'By the way, is Rod Power the younger, dumber brother of Austen Powers? '
Did you pat yourself on the back for that witty remark?
Who is Rod Powers ?
You'll forgive the copy and paste for once;
Rod Powers is considered one of the premire experts about U.S. Military career information on the Internet. He has more than 30,000 articles about U.S. Military career information on the About.com U.S. Military Rod Powers is a retired Air Force first sergeant, with 23 years of active duty service, 11 of those years as an Air Force First Sergeant. He has helped thousands of military members, recruits, and military applicants since he took over the About.com U.S Military Careers Information site in 1999. He has a reputation for 'telling it like it is,' so questions may not be answered based on 'what you want to hear,' but will be answered based of the bast available information, concerning the service/situation
In other words he is a reired officer from the recruitment office,not exactly a source that is credible,an expert on dishing out informtion perhaps but not a credible source of unbiased information .A bit like the guy from Pepsi telling you their product tastes better than coca-cola.
is an enlisted man with a rank one step higher than an SP4. A fricking enlisted man. Wow, I am really, really impressed with the credibility that brings. 'Meritorious Service Medal with three oak-leaf clusters.'
Now there is an impressive decoration. You get those stupid things for brushing your teeth. From the sounds of his 'credentials' he sounds like a REMF who never got into the heat of things. He's an AIRFORCE enlisted man? An Airhead? A clerk? Oh, come on boy, get us some real person with real experience and knowledge of the situation. As you have come up with with nothing, I will continue to believe The New York Times.
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