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May 16, 2008, 21:28 GMT
Obama hits back at Bush over appeasement comments (Roundup)
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Older Talkback
'I think that christians[sic] are no better or worse than muslims.'
Maybe the people themselves but Islamic theology promotes violence. Christianity does not.
'but Islamic theology promotes violence'
... as much as catholic theology promotes child rape.
'you, somehow, want to attach McCarthyism to republicans'
Ronald Regan did not show signs of McCarthyism. Bush and his followers do show signs of McCarthyism. It is not particular to republicans, but rather the current administration, its followers, and their thinking.
Republicans are no better or worse than democrats.
ABRIDGED to save space.
By MARK STEYN
'That's enough. That that's a show of disrespect to me.'
That was Barack Obama, a couple of weeks back, explaining why he was casting the Rev. Jeremiah Wright into outer darkness. It's one thing to wallow in 'adolescent grandiosity' (as Scott Johnson of the Powerline Web site called it) when it's a family dispute between you and your pastor of 20 years. It's quite another to do so when it's the 60th anniversary celebrations of one of America's closest allies.
President Bush was in Israel the other day and gave a speech to the Knesset. Its perspective was summed up by his closing anecdote a departing British officer in May 1948 handing the iron bar to the Zion Gate to a trembling rabbi and telling him it was the first time in 18 centuries that a key to the gates of the Jerusalem was in the hands of a Jew. In other words, it was a big-picture speech, referencing the Holocaust, the pogroms, Masada and the challenges that lie ahead. Sen. Obama was not mentioned in the text. No Democrat was mentioned, save for President Truman, in the context of his recognition of the new state of Israel when it was a mere 11 minutes old.
Nonetheless, Barack Obama decided that the president's speech was really about him, and he didn't care for it. He didn't put it quite as bluntly as he did with the Rev. Wright, but the message was the same: 'That's enough. That's a show of disrespect to me.' And, taking their cue from the soon-to-be nominee's weirdly petty narcissism, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden and Co. piled on to deplore Bush's outrageous, unacceptable, unpresidential, outrageously unacceptable and unacceptably unpresidential behavior.
Honestly. What a bunch of self-absorbed ninnies. Here's what the president said:
'Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.'
It says something for Democrat touchiness that the minute a guy makes a generalized observation about folks who appease terrorists and dictators the Dems assume: Hey, they're talking about me. Actually, he wasn't or, to be more precise, he wasn't talking only about you.
[...]
Increasingly, the Western world has attitudes rather than policies. It's one thing to talk as a means to an end. But these days, for most midlevel powers, talks are the end, talks without end. Because that's what civilized nations like doing chit-chatting, shooting the breeze, having tea and crumpets, talking talking talking. Uncivilized nations like torturing dissidents, killing civilians, bombing villages, doing doing doing. It's easier to get the doers to pass themselves off as talkers then to get the talkers to rouse themselves to do anything.
And, as the Iranians understand, talks provide a splendid cover for getting on with anything you want to do. If, say, you want to get on with your nuclear program relatively undisturbed, the easiest way to do it is to enter years of endless talks with the Europeans over said nuclear program. That's why that Hamas honcho endorsed Obama: They know he's their best shot at getting a European foreign minister installed as president of the United States.
[...]
In his 2002 letter to the United States, bin Laden has a lot of grievances, from America's refusal to implement Sharia law to Jew-controlled usury to the lack of punishment for 'President Clinton's immoral acts.' Like Barack Obama's pastor, bin Laden shares the view that AIDS is a 'Satanic American invention.' Obviously, there are items on the agenda that the free world can never concede on 'President Clinton's immoral acts' but who's to say most of the rest isn't worth chewing over?
[...]Are the political ambitions of the broader jihad totalitarian, genocidal, millenarian in a word, nuts? Or are they negotiable? President Bush knows where he stands. Just before the words that Barack Obama took umbrage at, he said:
'There are good and decent people who cannot fathom the darkness in these men and try to explain away their words. It's natural, but it is deadly wrong. As witnesses to evil in the past, we carry a solemn responsibility to take these words seriously.'
Here are some words of Hussein Massawi, the former leader of Hezbollah:
'We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you.'
Are his actions consistent with those words? Amazingly so. So, too, are those of Hezbollah's patrons in Tehran.
President Reagan talked with the Soviets while pushing ahead with the deployment of Cruise and Pershing missiles in Europe. He spoke softly after getting himself a bigger stick. Sen. Obama is proposing to reward a man who pledges to wipe Israel off the map with a presidential photo-op to which he will bring not even a twig. No wonder he's so twitchy about it.
''but Islamic theology promotes violence'
... as much as catholic theology promotes child rape.'
KORAN commands to kill infidels, this is only a small portion, I could go on for pages:
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.
..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43
If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8
You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71
Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74
Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89
Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65
It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28
Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....
As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)
....And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers...
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... nor follow
the religion of truth... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.'
Qur'an, Sura 9:29
But you knew that already... right?
'Republicans are no better or worse than democrats.'
If the Democrats were running someone with an appreciation of the threat we face and the will to confront it in a meaningful and intelligent fashion then I would vote for them in a heartbeat.. Obama is not a Harry Truman or an Andrew Jackson though... He is a Jimmy Carter.
'If the Democrats were running someone with an appreciation of the threat we face and the will to confront it in a meaningful and intelligent fashion then I would vote for them in a heartbeat.. Obama is not a Harry Truman or an Andrew Jackson though... He is a Jimmy Carter.'
I guess you are right (not) only a Republican't can appreciate 'the threat we face', when in fact the Republicant's have put us more at risk, whil bumbling everything they try and do. You could not be more wrong, but then again you are use to that!
Like I said: If one isn't against who you believe they should be against than one is a bigot terrorist. I think you have made your point perfectly clear.
Peace be with you. May:
(a) muslims marry christians.
(b) republicans marry democrats.
In order to decrease the inbreeding.
...I don't see any indication that Bush wants to single out anyone for their beliefs, just their actions.
Obama is on record as appeasing the Iranians, so Bush is merely stating the obvious.
He never:
Obtained 500 records on his political enemies, like the Clintons
Pardoned Puerto Rican terrorists so his wife could win an election, like the Clintons
Let Osama Bin Laden go when a foreign gov't offered him up, like the Clintons
So, that being the case, I think we can file this under the heading that you-are-just-a-little-more-than-full of crap.
ppperfect, if you want someone who understands totalitarian criminals, John McCain happened to have spent morre than five years, in advanced study, at their hands. I'd suggest it is he who understands this better than any TWO other candidates.
The North Vietnamese should have waterboarded McCain until the rat drowned.
'I don't see any indication that Bush wants to single out anyone for their beliefs, just their actions.'
When Bush kneels at the feet of muslim leaders like he does the pope (a symbolism of his singling out and bias) then you might have a point. Until then, he is biased to christians.
'guess you are right (not) only a Republican't can appreciate 'the threat we face', when in fact the Republicant's have put us more at risk, whil bumbling everything they try and do.'
Clinton had the opportunity to kill bin laden at least 4 times before 9/11.
'Like I said: If one isn't against who you believe they should be against than one is a bigot terrorist.'
If you are not against the terrorists you are a piece of s**t.
'Peace be with you.'
I had plenty of peace until I saw your soul brothers flying aircraft full of people in to buildings full of people. Now I don't like people who make excuses for their savagery.
'When Bush kneels at the feet of muslim leaders like he does the pope (a symbolism of his singling out and bias) then you might have a point. '
Not that Bush did that or anything... So 'kneeling at the feet of muslim leaders' is what you are after, eh? No wonder you are for Obama.
'If you are not against the terrorists you are a piece of s**t. '
I feel sorry for the handful of people (none from Iraq) that were so mentally ill that they committed a very stupid act. Just like I am sorry for anyone who associates those handful of people with Iraq and invades Iraq and starts killing people.
Am I 'against them'? I don't think it matters too much ... they are all dead. If they were alive then I would certainly like them tried in a court of jurisdiction and if found guilty then put to death, as I would say about anyone who murders, whether christian or muslim. But, to extend that death sentence beyond the original parties, as has been done, is a travesty of justice and a travesty of decency.
'I feel sorry for the handful of people (none from Iraq) that were so mentally ill that they committed a very stupid act.'
You 'feel sorry' for them... it was a 'Very stupid act'... Gee, don't sugar coat it or anything... It wasn't barbarity or inhuman savagery... it was just 'stupid'.
'. Just like I am sorry for anyone who associates those handful of people with Iraq'
Are al Qaeda in Iraq? Why yes, yes they are in Iraq. Do you want to turn Iraq over to them? Yes, yes you do.
'and invades Iraq and starts killing people.'
They have been doing a magnificent job of killing each other...
'Am I 'against them'? [the terrorists behind 9/11] I don't think it matters too much '
Another Obama supporter heard from.
'. But, to extend that death sentence beyond the original parties, as has been done, is a travesty of justice and a travesty of decency.'
So bin laden and the wqhole system that made these monsters are completely innocent. Therefore, there is no problem selling out to them, even if that will invite more attacks until they get everything they want from us.
Yup, you are an idiot. But 'peace' lance, see, I wrote 'peace' like it signifies something. Easiest thing in the world to type out 4 letters on a keyboard, you sanctimonious idiot: peace...
It has been decided by those who you defend that there will not no peace until the USA leaves the Middle east, abandons our allies there and converts en masse to islam. I do not want that kind of 'peace'. That is capitulation.
...because the so-called 'black' running is smarter, sharper and better educated than the most of the other world leaders put together.
...because, in a democracy, America's election process is the toughest in the world and weeds out the weak faster than a blind man playng Texas Hold'em.
...because, in America, we work at righting the wrongs of the past, and offer a system where anyone who has the brains, if the work for it, can do what Obama is doing, right now.
I hope that answer's your question.
Why indeed:
... as long as they are christians.
The way Obama treated his alleged muslim ties like the plague is very revealing.
Also, I would not say that the selection process is very good. It tends to weed out those that can't stomach to lie every day because that is what it takes. It is hyper-competitive and deception provides the competitive edge. Hardly something to be proud of.
Also: 'anyone who has the brains, if the work for it, can do what Obama is doing'
Actually, mostly what it takes is power, arrogance, greed, a political machine and piles upon piles of money. Nothing moves without the proper payoffs. But, once the whip of the party picks you up it must be one hell of a ride.
What is that I have heard about a black man being chosen by naive whites to become President of the United States ?'
The whole 'racist' thing might hinder you there.
Abridged:
The problem Barack Obama is stuck with - whether he likes it or not, and he doesn't - is that during this campaign he did in fact say, and moreover did in fact say several times, that as President he would be entirely willing to sit down with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and other rogues with no preconditions whatsoever.
That is why, for a second day Friday, the customarily unflappable Obama rather flappably chose to go on a tear over President Bush's remarks to the Israeli Knesset. He called those remarks 'appalling' and 'divisive' and much else, presenting himself as the victim of an untoward attack.
He is no such thing.
Here is what Bush said, before the Knesset on a visit celebrating Israel's 60th birthday: 'Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them that they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is - the false comfort of appeasement.'
Nothing that has not been said many times, by Bush and by others.
Nothing that was inappropriate when speaking to the elected officials of a country that is surrounded by genocidal anti-Semites who have vowed its destruction - among them Ahmadinejad, who intends to attain nuclear weapons to get the job done.
And nothing, let it be noted, that specifically cited Obama, or anyone else, by name. Bush might easily have been talking about warm and fuzzy Jimmy Carter, who lately did such a swell job of winning over the hearts and minds of Hamas.
Ah, but Obama has said he would treat unconditionally with Ahmadinejad, that's a problem.
And so he emphatically replies that certainly he'll be tough on those Holocaust-denying, death-to-Israel-hoping, nuke-seeking Iranians, isolating them until they give up their doomsday desires. Isolation in this case, though, wouldn't count a meeting with President Obama. Which is not really very severe isolation at all. What is the man talking about?
Until the Iranians relent on their crazed aspirations, Tehran poses an existential threat to the Jewish state. Obama pledges he'll always be with Israel. But it's not Israel that's causing him so much trouble. It's his own insufficiently formulated thinking.
www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/05/17/2008-05-17_obama_doth_protest.h tml
Barack Obama met secretly with a controversial Imam this week in Michigan.
Imam Hassan Qazwini has hosted Louis Farrakhan at his mosque and is close to the Hezbollah Spiritual Leader who issued the fatwa to blow up 300 U.S. Marines and embassy officials in 1983.
Imam Hassan Qazwini, head of the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, met privately with Sen. Barack Obama at Macomb Community College on May 14, 2008. (Detroit Free Press)
Imam Hassan Qazwini met privately with Senator Barack Obama this week in Michigan. The Detroit Free Press reported:
A Muslim leader from Dearborn met privately with Sen. Barack Obama during his Wednesday visit to Michigan.
Imam Hassan Qazwini, head of the Islamic Center of America, said in an email that he met with Obama at Macomb Community College. A mosque spokesman, Eide Alawan, confirmed that the meeting took place. During the meeting, the two discussed the Presidential election, the Arab-Israeli conflict, and the Iraq war, according to Qazwini.
At the end of the meeting, Qazwini said he gave Obama a copy of new book, American Crescent, (his book on why Islam is good for America) and invited Obama to visit his center.
The meeting with Obama came about after Qazwini had asked David Bonior, the former U.S. Rep. from Michigan, if he could meet with Obama during his visit. Qazwini was not selected to be part of a group of 20 people who met with Obama, but Qazwini later got a private meeting with Obama, Alawan said.
Debbie Schlussel wrote about Imam Hassan Qazmini and saw Farrakhan speak at his mosque in 1998:
In 1998, the mosque--then in Detroit--was the first mosque to which I went undercover. I wrote about it in The Detroit Newsistan, before the paper became Muslim-occupied territory under such boneheaded individuals as editorial page editor Nolan Dhimmi Finley. At the time, the mosque hosted Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who delivered a long hate-filled rant against Jews and Christians (and in praise of Saddam Hussein). When Farrakhan called Jewish Americans 'forces of evil' with a 'Satanic mentality.' Imam Qazwini and his congregants gave him a standing ovation. That's not to mention that the Imam and other Muslim officials introduced Farrakhan as 'our dear brother' and 'a freedom fighter.'
Iranian Human Rights activist Banafsheh Zand Bonazzi wrote to add this on the meeting:
Here we have one of the most unnoticed Mullah promoters, someone who is allegedly a member of the Mullahs secret agent network (VEVAK), now living in the U.S. and said to be working in brainwashing people in Dearborn, on behalf of the terrorist regime of Iran, meeting with Obama. I would bet my bottom dollar that he has a message from his presumed bosses in Tehran for this Democrat candidate. But how come this isn't being reported more widely?!
gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/05/barack-obama-meets-secretly-with.htm l
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