US News
Mar 8, 2008, 16:34 GMT
Bush vetoes torture-ban law, saying it ties CIA hands
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Older Talkback
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I see a lot of american posters today saying that water boarding is ok.
They have to justify it to themselves because the only other option is to admit finally to themselves that their government and security services are in fact according to Geneva and international law,WAR CRIMINALS.
After world war II the germans found it extremely difficult to come to terms with the fact that their leaders had been so convincing on their reasons for hating the jew and for invading other states. They found it difficult to accept responsibility for the war crimes of their elected representatives.
I suppose to carry on denying it will make the bad taste go away.
Will the realization hit home only after impeachment and war crimes tribunals in the Hague.
The people in question are not legitimate combatants. Therefore, they have no rights as soldiers. Technically, they should be shot on the battlefield, or tried as human rights violators themselves.
You see, Brian, Geneva was created to protect legitimate combatants in war. These would be soldiers fighting for a particular nation.
Who does Geneva really protect? None of the nations we have fought in the last 40 years abide by it, either and no one has been punished for it. If a treaty is not protecting the signatories combatants, what good is it.
Terrorists do not fit this description. Furthermore, Geneva is not law, it is a treaty and can be abrogated.
By the way, Brian, the jews were never combatants, so Geneva never applied to them. If you want a treaty to punish human rights abusers, start with terrorists and not the government of the United States.
Let's take a stroll down memory lane. Who, actually, has ever honored Geneva in the last 40 years? Answer: almost no warring nation. If anyone has towed the line, it would be the United States. Like I explained above, if you protect anyone other than legitimate combatants, what good is it?
No thanks. A treaty that ties one parties hands is not a treaty. By the way, Saddam said in interviews, before his death, he fully intended to restart his WMD program for chemical weapons as soon as the UN inspectors left, and took steps to do so. This being the case, that and the 500 WMD's found, makes you pretty much just a little more than full of crap.
And where was the outrage and trials for all the governments who have tortured legitimate combatants? N. Korea, Vietnam have gotten a pass from the so called world community forever. Iran, Syria, etc., numerous African nations, all have tortured legitimate combatants and the UN, or any other group, has never gone after them for this. it seems to me that this vaunted justice depends entirely on who's being tortured.
It seems to me we should apply the cold war standard of retaliation here. Abrogate Geneva (we are not signatories on certain parts anyways, so it doesn't apply to us) and proclaim a response of equal treatment for terrorists as they have demonstrated on us. If the idea of nuking a whole city is legitimate in the eyes of the world, why is waterboarding one raghead terrorist so repugnant?
This would include torture, the killing of their families and other methods they employ on their enemies. You see the problem with this war is that not enough folks are dying so there is no incentive to win. Governments, including ours, ignore the issues until some event happens.
Sums up why I think the US is so evil.
i like mccain .and sp4 likes mccain now.
so now we will have to put up with sp4 putting everyone down again if someone don't like mccain .so if mccain gets in we all know where sp4's nose will be once again
im blubbering just like sp4 now...
Mikey:
Anytime someone from the UK insinuate we're evil, tell them to focus that razor sharp insight on themselves. Go take a look at how YOU handle the same problems i.e. N. Ireland, MI5, etc.
As for McCain, he's a republican, I'm a republican so, yes, it's likely I'll vote for him. As for liking him, I'd rather have another Bush or Reagan, but one is not available.
Sums up why the UK is so hypocritical.
...f--king love the UK in America. We love the French, The Germans and the Japanese, the Aussies, and anyone from the Caribbean, even the Cubans! Heck, we let 12 million Mexicans just walk over the border! You will never find a nation more open to foreigners in the world!
It's been my experience that, when most Americans meet foreigners, they really want to get to know them. We are also grateful for what their nations have done to help us.
Americans are some of the most self-deprecating people in the world. Heck, we'll be the first to realize how rediculous we look, telling India they don't need nukes when we have 5,000 of them, but realizing that may still not make us wrong.
And if you wish to pass judgement on us, so be it, but don't be surprised when we point out a few things to you. Do we bitch slap terrorists? You're goddamn right we do, just like MI5, Mossad, KGB, or outsource it like they do too. We also put caps in terrorists asses like other nations do, and that we do not apologize for.
I don't mind a high standard like Geneva, just as long as you get every terrorist in the world to sign up first. If not, why not ask the world to pressure them before they pressure us?
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