US News
By M&C US News Dec 28, 2007, 18:36 GMT
French physicist calls Al Gore a 'crook' over global warming issues
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Older Talkback
People need to get their acts together and try to cooperate in bettering the environment, instead of wasting time pointing fingers at each other and declaring they have the right answers. There isn't just one cause or one answer to the problem. This debate is really getting old!
I am sure that everyone wishes it were that simple, Shane, but it isn't. Before you can do anything about solving a problem, you have to define the problem and that is where we are stuck.
Re: Noharness - Jan 4th, 2008 - 13:45:45
Before you can do anything about solving a problem, you have to define the problem and that is where we are stuck.
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I agree. Tonney clings to past data the way an old man clings to his memories. The 'problem' with that is - the old data has faded as fast as the memories. In order to maintain his 'side' of this discussion, he has (basically) lowered himself to serial name calling, demeaning others' intelligence and trashing the names and findings of scientists who don't fall into his line of thinking by calling them oil company shills.
Mr. tonney has named himself as a scientist in a previous post. But I have become a little suspicious of his proclimed title. Why would any scientist have to lower his/her self to resort to such behavior - if the 'facts' were so obvious and undeniable? One might say it might be frustration - and I would buy into that sentiment. A scientist has to be open minded to possible flaws in a 'theory' and investigate the seriousness of the challenge and make corrections based on the veracity of any new data - Not proclaim 'OUTSIDE THE USA IT IS ALREADY OVER!' - NOT close his/her mind - say the theory is 'fact' and anything that denies this 'fact' is fabricated or is idiologically or monetarily driven.
So, having said all that - I would have to point to the first 2 posts on page 6 (actually 1 that was split) - and reiterate that by by impugning the reputations of Scientists not in the GW fold - tonney has (inadvertantly) brought up the possible influence that money may have had on those who are proclimed GW backers. - And take notice - I say 'possible' and 'may' - because, unlike him, I do not claim to be priviledged with those hard facts.
BTW, here is another article - by a Russian Scientist (I guess Russian oil intersts bought him out) who has some things to add to this discussion.
It won't let me put the link in as is - so I am splitting off the http;// from the address. Be sure to Preface the address below with it.
en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
Thanks, Oops. I was amazed to find that a working scientist and I agree on just about everything concerning this 'greenhouse gas' business. I've been going by what REASON tells me, despite the apparent claims made by the scientific community. It's nice to know that a real pro agrees with my assessment, especially when I have never met him or ever discussed these issues with him.
Noharness - Jan 5th, 2008 - 03:46:17
Thanks, Oops. I was amazed to find that a working scientist and I agree on just about everything concerning this 'greenhouse gas' business.
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Are you referring to Tonney or Dr. Sorokhtin? .... LOL!
I had no 'beliefs' one way or the other - when this subject first made headlines. The data being published seemed to favor the 'theory' of GW. But I became interested in researching it when Gore published his 'findings' - that contained so much tripe. I had delved into Gore's academic records when he criticized the intelligence of President Bush (who I am not a fan of - but Gore never impressed me with his inteelect) - and found his record to be, let's just say, mediocre - at best. That is when I strated seeing a lot of data that the main stream media was squashing. I began to wonder why. Then the news hit last August about the calculations for temperature recordings being 'off' - and the horrendous placement of many of thetemperature guages used for 'today's' data. This changed the dynamics of the whole discussion - from science - to politics in my humble opinion.
There are (literally) hundreds of scientists - who have come forward with overwhelming data - debunking the 'human factor' as having any significance at all. So, it looks like the GW theory hit its zenith this past fall and has been successfully challenged as an 'inconvenient untruth.'
BTW - I wonder if any of you all caught the faux pas (a little French term) by Mr. Tonney. He proclaimed that 'OUTSIDE THE USA IT IS ALREADY OVER!' - below an article by a French Physicist - that has a first line of 'Al Gore is taking a beating in France.' - Amazing!!!!!!!!!!
I started off thinking that global warming caused by the 'greenhouse effect' might be possible, but back during the time when it first became a topic of discussion, I had my doubts about whether or not there was any global warming at all. To me there did not seem to be enough time to gather the data necessary to determine if there really was a warming trend.
For sure, the summers in my part of the world had become longer and the winters shorter and milder, but such personal observations in one area are not adequate evidence. Additionally, I remembered that my Grandfather had planted orange trees in this area when he was back in his twenties. There were no orange trees around when I was growing up, but my dad planted some around his house after he retired and they are still flourishing as I write this. We DO have prolonged warm spells and prolonged cool spells. There is a lot of noise in the signal when you are talking about weather trends.
Then came the news that Mars and the other outer planets were warming up. That, of course, means that the sun is putting out more heat. There is no other way for such a thing to happen. Seeing that I began to dig in to this 'greenhouse effect' theory and it was then that I realized how badly it was flawed.
Earth is basically a well-designed greenhouse with a passive heating system. Such systems, irrespective of their size, do not work the way the way the greenhouse theorists were claiming that they worked. I've posted what I believe to be the worst of its flaws under the USA Drought article in the USA section. The response I have received thus far is--well--mute. I think what I will eventually get is inarticulate name-calling that is the norm for these fora.
Does this help?
www.ecd.bnl.gov/steve/pubs/HeatCapacity.pdf
Thanks, Oops. Looks like I have some major reading and cogitating to do.
I read the link provided. I noticed they attached no overall conclusion to this, it was only a method, or an attempt at a method. A real attempt at science to be sure, but it looks like they are still studying it.
There is no such thing as man made global warming.
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