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Dec 8, 2007, 2:46 GMT
Bush under fire for destroyed CIA interrogation tapes (Roundup)
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Older Talkback
www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/08/america/08inquire.php
Meanwhile, the former chairmen of the Sept. 11 commission, who said the CIA assured them repeatedly during their inquiry that no original material existed from its interrogations of Qaeda figures, said they were furious to learn about the tapes.
The CIA indicated that the Sept. 11 commission never specifically asked for any tape recordings of prisoner interrogations.
But in separate interviews on Friday, the co-chairmen, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, said they had made clear in hours of negotiations and discussions with the CIA, as well as in written requests, that they wanted all material connected to the interrogations of Qaeda operatives in the agency's custody in order to get a complete understanding of the events leading up to the Sept. 11 attacks for their 2004 report.
The commission ended up getting summaries of interrogation reports and was able to forward questions of its own for CIA officers to ask the prisoners.
'The CIA certainly knew of our interest in getting all the information we could on the detainees, and they never indicated to us there were any videotapes,' Hamilton said. 'Did they obstruct our inquiry? The answer is clearly yes. Whether that amounts to a crime, others will have to judge.'
Kean said, 'I'm upset that they didn't tell us the truth.'
www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071208/NEWS07/712080310/1009
• Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., accused the CIA of a cover-up. 'We haven't seen anything like this since the 18 1/2 -minute gap in the tapes of President Richard Nixon,' he said.
• Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., said the CIA's explanation that the tapes were destroyed to protect the identity of agents is 'a pathetic excuse,' adding that 'you'd have to burn every document at the CIA that has the identity of an agent on it under that theory.'
• Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said he wouldn't side with calls for an investigation because he believed the CIA's actions were legal. 'That doesn't mean I like it,' he added.
(Guess which guy is running/pandering for the GOP nomination)
• Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich., who headed the House Intelligence Committee when the tapes were destroyed, disputed Hayden's claim that Congress was told of the tapes and their destruction.
• Lee Hamilton, former cochairman of the 9/11 commission: 'Did they obstruct our inquiry? The answer is clearly yes. Whether that amounts to a crime, others will have to judge.'
(This is the White House effort to short-circuit a Congressional investigation, by my calculations. This 'probe' will only determine if there will be any further action taken, and will NOT get into the story, itself. This is a cover-up in the making)
www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/12/08/cia.videotapes/
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Justice Department and the CIA will jointly investigate the destruction of videotapes of CIA interrogations of two al Qaeda suspects, a top official said.
The Justice Department's assistant attorney general for national security, Kenneth L. Wainstein, announced the investigation Saturday in a letter to the CIA's top lawyer, John Rizzo. The probe will determine 'whether further investigation is warranted,' Wainstein said.
'I see you're back to regurgitating the usual good-news puffery like some vulture feeding its young, so just get your talons around this...'
Your English as a second language class at the local community college didn't cover the mixing of metaphors I see.
'The Sunni Civil War
They're fighting with words, not bullets. But the rift is still dangerous.'
Eyerolls...'They're fighting with words, not bullets. But the rift is still dangerous?' Not as dangerous as the 'bullets' kind... Idiot. Thanks for another non sequitur. As long as they are not shooting at us it doesn't matter. One ting that I have seen throughout my travel in the Middle East: the Sunnis absolutely despise the shiites as agents of Iran. You lend credence to their assessment.
www.knx1070.com/CIA--Justice-Dept--Announce-Joint-Inquiry-Into-Des/1302254< br />
The issue came to light when Hayden told agency employees on Thursday that the recordings were destroyed out of fear the tapes would leak and reveal the identities of interrogators.
He said the sessions were videotaped to provide an added layer of legal protection for interrogators using new, harsh methods authorized by U.S. President George W. Bush.
Yet a well informed source told CBS News the videotapes were destroyed to protect CIA officers from criminal prosecution, reports CBS News national security correspondent David Martin.
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/08/terror/main3594729.shtml
Congressional Democrats had demanded that the Justice Department investigate. Some accused the CIA of a cover-up and described the CIA's explanation as 'a pathetic excuse.'
The Senate's No. 2 Democrat, Dick Durbin, said Attorney General Michael Mukasey should find out 'whether CIA officials who destroyed these videotapes and withheld information about their existence from official proceedings violated the law.'
'That's not a sign that we've 'won', if we cannot provide a small number of marines to lead in Afghanistan'
It is a sign that we have won if they are not necessary on either front... Idiot. We have about 2 and a half million people in our armed forces. If more were needed in either theater they could be provided. Since they are basically crossing in from Pakistan to be turned in to red mist by our air power more Marines there are just adding to the long deployments.
Taliban Bench Warmers
'They're just coming up here and getting killed.'
by Christian Lowe
IT'S TRUE THAT INSURGENT violence is on the rise in Afghanistan, with a surging Taliban taking up tactics first used against U.S. forces in Iraq, including suicide bombs, improvised explosive devices, and vehicle-borne IEDs. Afghan civilians and national security forces are being killed in greater numbers this year than any year since the 2001 invasion. According to an Afghan diplomatic source, 700 civilians have been killed so far this year--some in poorly-targeted U.S. bombing raids--but a large proportion of those have been the victims of insurgent attacks.
The other side of the story is quite different, however. Along with the rise in Taliban--and to some extent, al Qaeda violence--has come a sharp increase in the number of insurgents killed by Coalition (mostly American and Australian) troops and Afghan security forces. The Afghan diplomat said about 3,500 Taliban have been killed this year, and several top commanders captured.
There's been a major tactical shift recently in how the Taliban insurgency attacks Coalition forces. Of course, IEDs and suicide bombings are up 20 percent over last year's 5,388 total, but there have also been a number of large-scale engagements waged against allied patrols that wind up resulting in high enemy losses. It seems anathema to the usual tactics of an insurgency, where small hit-and-run attacks prove most effective at driving government forces and their allies out of the fight. And it speaks to a growing trend of military incompetence within a Taliban depleted of its experienced, native-born fighters.
In September alone, a number of engagements
involving hundreds of Taliban fighters resulted in resounding defeats for the insurgents. In two separate battles on September 27, Coalition forces claimed 165 Taliban fighters killed. And just this week, NATO forces and Afghan soldiers reportedly trapped 250 Taliban fighters in a village north of Kandahar after an attempted insurgent ambush. That's counter to the basic tenets of guerrilla warfare which abhors mass--the more fighters you pull together in one group, the bigger the target. The Soviet-fighting mujahedeen were only able to mass in significant numbers after U.S.-made Stinger anti-aircraft missiles eliminated Soviet air cover.
So, why the sudden wave of mass attacks? A lot has been made in recent news reports of the increase in foreign fighters joining the ranks of the Taliban, with some of those stories insinuating that the development is a measure of the insurgency's growing strength and influence. The New York Times reported on October 29 that the foreign fighters 'are not only bolstering the ranks of the insurgency. They are more violent, uncontrollable and extreme than their locally bred allies.'
But a top American commander based in Kandahar--where the Taliban movement was born--explained that from his perspective the foreign fighter influx is actually a sign of weakness. The high body count is a result of 'ineptitude' he said, and stems from the fighters' lack of experience and training.
'In this type of war, when you mass against forces like us . . . without firepower, we're able to destroy them quite easily and we've shown that over the last six to seven months,' said Col. Thomas McGrath, the American commander in charge of training Afghan security forces near Kandahar. 'They're bringing in cohorts of young men who really don't know any better and it's been a colossal failure for them.'
'BAGHDAD, Dec. 5 -- Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Wednesday that a stable and democratic Iraq is 'within reach.' But he cautioned that threats remain, pointing to insurgent efforts to create a stronghold in northern Iraq as U.S. commanders seek more than 1,400 additional Iraqi and U.S. troops there.'
Gee, thanks for proving my point again.
'Gates, whom I respect enormously, has to go back and report to Bush and tell him what he wants to hear; while Petraeus is the guy who actually has to make this thing work'
No, that is not what gates has to do. Regardless, none of what you have posted is refuting anything I have said, moron. You complete moron. The fact that you are posting things like: 'despite a recent decline in violence across the country', 'a stable and democratic Iraq is 'within reach.' underscore the point that you are/were WRONG when you declared Iraq lost. You have been wrong in rooting for the terrorists to kill Americans so you can gave the pleasure of whining about Bush, you have been categorically WRONG in your self proclaimed expertise about strategy, history, indeed just about EVERYTHING you have posted on. You are the anti-oracle.
Most telling is what you cut out of your cut and pastes:
''We need to be patient, but we also need to be absolutely resolved in our desire to see the nascent signs of hope across Iraq expand and flourish.''-Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates
'Gates said he and Iraqi leaders discussed not only how to 'sustain the progress of recent months but to build upon it,' and he congratulated Maliki on his recent signing of a bilateral agreement outlining the main steps toward creating a long-term strategic relationship with the United States.'
So you cherry pick and censor to paint the most bleak picture of the mission in Iraq and elsewhere? Why? Because you are a defeatist and a liar.
to be clear,winning or losing the war in Iraq has nothing to do with making it right or wrong .Strange however that neocons always seem to find a justification for this war that is based in false premises and downright lies .Just as the next war being prepared against Oran is based on similar lies .The reports stating that Iran is not working on anynuclear weapons emanates from no less than 16 intelligence agencies,all legitimate USA ,all reaching the same conclusion .So the right wuestions in this case are ,why has Bush been hammering on Iran for allo these years,lying to you all ....again,knowing damned well he was lying .And why has this report by your own intelligence agencies found it's way to the public ,amking Bush and Cheney look as fools in the eyes of the world community and the american people (minus the small segment of brainwashed specimen) ?Thje result of it all was the scrambling of the neocon idiots like John Bolton wailing that the intelligence people have it all wrong,that they have no authority to derive political conclusions from their findings (if so ,you guys don't either,right ?) .
So the meror stands naked,and still some people are praising him for his beautiful garments.But the people laughs at these pathetic clowns .
'U.S. news agencies say the CIA was advised by a former senior White House official not to destroy videotaped interrogations of terror suspects'
LOL! YEs, you are finally getting it... I only had to post it 3 times but eventually you found it on your own, you MORON. Even though it undercuts your own argument: That Bush ordered the shredding of the tapes in some Nixonesque attempyt at a cover up, you stupidly post it yourself because you only read the headline: 'Ex-White House Aide Knew of CIA Plans to Destroy Interrogation Tapes'
Yes they Knew about it, They ADVISED THE CIA NOT TO DO IT! The CIA thankfully did it anyway. Good on them.
'There are now 1,646 separate linked articles on this under Google News' first story, and that's up from an hour ago at 1,538. Bad news for the Bushies[sic]
You complete FOOL! Are you not even reading what you post yourself? The BUSH ADMINISTRATION TOLD THEM NOT TO DESTROY THE TAPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW IS THAT BAD NEWS FOR THE 'BUSHIES'????
Can't you even read what you post yourself? Do you even understand what you are cutting and pasting?
'This is the White House effort to short-circuit a Congressional investigation, by my calculations. '
You are a moron, look at what you posted:
'The reports say former counsel Harriet Miers urged the intelligence agency to preserve the tapes before they were destroyed in 2005. The New York Times says officials in the Justice Department, along with some senior members of Congress, also advised the CIA to keep the tapes.'
'This is a cover-up in the making'
Moron. You posted: 'The videotapes were ordered destroyed by Jose Rodriguez, who was then in charge of the CIA's covert operations division. The Times says he did so without informing the CIA's legal counsel. '
'The cover-up of the cover-up commences'
Moron... Read what you posted:
'U.S. news agencies say the CIA was advised by a former senior White House official not to destroy videotaped interrogations of terror suspects. '
'Just as the next war being prepared against Oran[sic] is based on similar lies '
Tonny, you iranian coward, if you want to defend Iran go back home and live under the mullahs instead of escaping to the west and defending them as they oppress your own people, you miserable sellout.
There is no western freedom, no welfare state for you to leech off of and you might actually get stoned to death or publicly lynched for having the wrong opinion, but at least you wouldn't be such a sniveling coward.
Bottom line:
The White House advised against it, the CIA did it anyway. Good for the CIA. I actually hope there is another overblown 'congressional investigation'. It will show the democrats as the appeasing sellouts they are, continually undercutting ANY attempt to protect ourselves in a time of war. Congresses approval rating will drop even FURTHER.
Be my guest. Do what you do best, do the ONLY thing you actually DO. Abandon all reason and logic in a quixotic attack on your perpetual scapegoat that will further make you and yours look like idiots who live on your own little planet and weaken the USA in a time of war in the process.
Gee, that strategy worked so well recently with the 'General Betray us' effort! People just loved that! Nothing backfired there you morons! LOL!
How about this: Make sure that each terrorist has a 'dream team' of lawyers! That ought to go over well! Lie, obfuscate, put on a big show, ham it up, grab some headlines.... Turn this non story in to a big deal. I think you will be given all the rope you need to hang yourselves, AGAIN.
'....haell yes ah got rid o thim! Nooo, ah din't burn'em...I got th varsity in here ta do th deed fer me...ah hired Sandy Berger! Haell boyh...he dropped his pants an stuffed thim tapes in lahke he wuz robbin th Walmart...walked rahght outa the oval office with em!'
anyway merry xmas you bunch of mangey bastards
Merry Christmas SP4.
...and a happy Hanukkah!
One other thing: Bush isn't the guy who destroyed any tapes....weird, huh?
right you are sp4 bush only ordered it done.
I have just one question for all of those that are so against waterboarding, uncomfortable positions, sleep deprivation etc. Let's say that your child, mother lover, spouse, whoever you love most in this world is being held by a group of terrorists that are known for sawing off heads. The CIA has one of these terrorists that may well have info that can save you loved ones life. Do you honestly say 'NO!, no torture of any kind-just tough talk'? Honestly?
...except THAT is not illegal, and no one really knows if he did or not. I'd say those are two pertinent points, huh?
Given the climmate between the White House and the CIA, I seriously doubt they are just jumping at their commands.
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