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By Karyn Chenoweth Oct 5, 2007, 13:59 GMT
Chris Matthews on 'criminal' Bush administration
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Older Talkback
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The US was able to defeat and remove the Nazis in Europe, in less time than it's taken Bush to secure the road to the Airport in Baghdad. (which is still not secure)
Think about that reality SP4.
We can do that in one hour now.
Are you advocating that course of action? I have friends who think dropping a fatboy on Iraq is a viable solution. Their rationale is that no one would resist after that. Hard to argue that point, eh?
Now, you're experiencing a vastly different war. The combatants don't really belong to any nation, but are propped up by certain ones.
A defined group of folks in the world see this as a legitimate fight for freedom, justice, or whatever sick silly reasons they have for their actions. They have little to lose, and lots to gain. Their victories are esoteric, to say the least.
They hate you. They would kill you to make a point. They don't really want to do anything but dominate you. When they dominate you, they will then enslave you. This is not new. Men have done this for centuries, but used other means.
And they are dominating you. They have govenments all over the world spending time and energy dealing with them. We are crappy at it. The reason is politicians ignore it until lots of folks start dying.
We have laws to protect terrorists because we refuse to pass laws to deal with them. International treaties protect them. The UN will not speak out against terror. They will actually calll them freedom fighters, while they ignore the monks in Mynammar. Telling, huh? It seems to me that's endorsing violent overthrow, but that's just me.
This is, arguably, Bush's biggest error: Not getting a Constitutional Amendment to deal with the new legal landscape. Of course, no one else did, either, in the last 30 years.
Bush, badly, but correctly, has confronted this, and is the first president to do so. No matter who is president next, they will HAVE to deal with terror. It is now a permenant political football, like the cold war. He'll never get a medal for it, but it will benefit everyone, even the dem f--ks who WANT us to lose!
SP4 you should not talk about it in the future tense you have already lost and will just lose some more until some one or every one gets pissed off and puts your present american administration behind bars for their criminal acts.
re: your comment ... 'We can do that in one hour now. Are you advocating that course of action? I have friends who think dropping a fatboy on Iraq is a viable solution.'
Uh SP4 ... we didn't use a 'fatboy' to defeat the Nazis.
Remember?
Gauwd you sure like to mix up the facts.
re: your comment ... 'even the dem f--ks who WANT us to lose'
That's a YOUR lie and distortion ...
Name one Dem who says they 'Want to Lose' ... Name one Dem who says we shouldn't go after the 'real' terrorists. (Use their actual words ... not yours, or Rush's 'make-believe' ass-umptions)
Hello SP4???You've been asked about the Bush-Saudi connection by some people here .You dragged in everything but the kitchen sink trying to avoid the question .I'll try to explain to you a few facts about the Bush-Bin Laden-Saudi connection .Ever heard about the Carlysle investment group ?Never ?Well let me tell you it is one of cornerstones of understanding why Bush,Cheney and the neocon waspnet you so defend are not too keen on pointing the finger to the Saudi's ,you see it is not ALL about defending the oil lobby !There is more to it .Cheney's friends and the Saudi's are co-investors in this venture .As Carlysle invests in armamant they even gain from the aftermath of 9/11 .How convenient and patriotic .
Matthews is Great. Sometimes the truth needs to be told. He is right about Cheney. What a detriment to our nation that guy has been. Embarrassing, really. Can't wait to get some fresh faces in the Oval Office
Forget sparring with SP4 - he has appointed himself the wise one - knowledgable on every and any subject. Personally, I think he is an elderly, retired teacher who has waaay too much time on his hands!
You know the nicest consequences for the USA and the rest of the world with a new,more intelligent administration ?Less paranoia,closer ties with the rest of the world,a more efficient approach to terrorism,less ennemies,better health care,more empathy,less looting from the state coffers,less torture,eventually less terrorism ,but of course that remains to be seen.The kind of people SP4 stands for are either dismissive or paranoid to everything that they don't understand .
SP4-
I hope that you will bear with me thru some comments comparing the
making of objective assessments based upon facts, with making subjective
assessments based upon seeing things thru a prism of partisan politics.
Consider if you can, that when we were attacked on 9/11, the demonrats
were at the helm of government. Consider that instead of going after the real enemy relentlessly, the demonrats chose to attack elsewhere and create
a new enemy that had nothing to do with 9/11, because of incompetence, and a mis-directed sense of revenge. A WW11 parallel would be for the USA to have attacked China, after Pearl Harbor, instead of Japan, with our leaders chosing their own scapegoat, claiming China was not a democracy, etc., rather than directly taking on our real enemy. What would you think of that? Would you appaud such action just because you belonged to the same political party that was in charge?
Suppose that the demonrats started digging a big hole in the desert in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and pouring everything we've got into it, instead of sticking to the task of going after the real enemy. Suppose they claimed that this tactic was a winning strategy, but it would take a hell of a long time to win this way, or dig to China, so be patient and shut up.
I suppose in your mind, you would only choose to support this if you were a fellow demonrat, but you would not support this stategy if you were of a different political breed. Suppose in reality, this type of stategy actually
benefited the original enemy, and it became part of the enemy stategy to bog us down digging a hole, rather than concentrating on the real enemy?
Would you expect to be supportive of all this just because you were a demonrat? This would be seeing reality thru a partisan prism.
I can honestly tell you that I would not support such activities regardless
of whatever political party the persons who made such bad decisions did belong. I would expect any, and all objective minded citizens to see the craziness of such leadership. Is this what you would expect, or would you
expect some people to blindly support the bad decisions just because they
belonged to the same policial party as the persons who made the decisions?
This is one of the paragigms your generation is going to have to deal with: Who, exactly, are you refering to?
The official government?
The fanatic crazies?
The religious government?
other...tribal, etc.?
When you say 'Saudis' who are you refering to? Can you put a finger on it?
Take Iran's 'government'
President alphabet soup
Radical paramilitary hizbo's, rev. guard...hell...more than one!
Religous authority
Tribal, Kurds, ethnic
who would you say, is in charge..of exactly... what?
Nancy Pelosi goes to Syria: See's Assad... who, exactly, is he and what, exactly is his role? I would say he's the day-to-day authority, but the hizbo's are the paramilitary crazies. Then there's the religous dickheads AND the tribal authorities!
Each has it's power base. When you are talking foreign policy with Assad, what, exactly are the ramifications? WHO, exactly, are you dealing with?
You're living in a different world than you think. Iranian paramilitary takes Brit hostages...the President HAS to back their play! Otheriwse he's exposed i.e. he's not 'the real power'.
Abbas walks around trying to convince everyone HE's the power in Gaza.
Anyone actually believe this?
Condi Rice and others prop this point of view up.
When you decide to ask me again about the Saudis' be specific. That way we have a common reference to discuss it.
The 'normal' American people are sick of both sides, at this point.
The GOP are saddled with Craig playing poster boy for hypocrisy refusing to give up his seat, when another Republican would be sure to replace him.
This endless war goes on, and neither Party is capable of doing anything to end it. Bush is permanently deluded and immovable, and his own party is running away from him personally, while at the same time Giuliani and his '9/11 Tourette's Syndrome' cannot move beyond 9/11 in every speech, and Romney tries to 'out-tough' him, as that's the red-meat crap that the fundraisers for the GOP and troglodytes like SP4 want to hear.
All that matters is finding a solution to unburden the people of the mounting costs, and to get their family members home. The recent Iraqi government corruption testimony only proves that we're wasting our time trying to prop them up.
news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1362579.php
The real shame is that SP4 and others fear will come in some form, whether we're in Iraq for 10 months or 10 years. We should be protecting our own borders, and strengthening our own intel agencies, and working with other nations to deter terrorist plots. That would require 'real ID' and other technologies, and a firm immigration policy, and the public appears unready to pay that price. As usual, we're our own worst enemies.
(This link vividly describes how the Sunni insurgents who've been responsible for many U.S. deaths are now being paid off to go after al Qaeda - we did the same thing in Afghanistan, and look how THAT ended up)
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2414588.ece
FOUR months ago the scene would have been unthinkable. Captain Henry Moltz of the 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment led a small group of men up the deserted street to a single-storey municipal building of mellow ochre brick that had been cracked by mortar blasts during months of ruinous fighting with Sunni insurgents.
At the entrance he was greeted with a kiss by Sheikh Sabah al-Janabi, a leading member of the tribe that had spearheaded many of the pitiless Sunni attacks on American forces in and around the little town of Jurf as Sakhr, 25 miles south of Baghdad.
As Moltz, 28, ducked out of the sun into the sparsely furnished interior last Thursday, a second sheikh was waiting for him with another kiss and a look of eager expectation. Moltz swiftly put him at his ease. “Sheikh, we have the first payment,” he declared. An aide pulled from his knapsack a thick, heavy wad of used notes tied with rubber bands, and placed it on a table. Then came another, and another, until the table was piled high with 19 bundles of 2.5m dinars each – worth $38,000 (£19,000) in all.
Moltz looked the second sheikh, Taleb al-Janabi, in the eye. “If you keep to your contract and keep fighting the enemy, we owe you the balance,” he said. The balance is $189,000 (£93,000), to be paid over three months if the sheikh sticks to his side of the bargain and drives out the largely foreign fighters of Al-Qaeda in Iraq who have set up camp in date palm groves along the banks of the Euphrates in Ruwiya, to the west.
SP4-
I just read your latest post. Help me understand just what in hell are you ranting about. Are you drunk, stoned, insane, or all of the above?
He's a frustrated, wanna be writer, so he uses this site to get his fix.
Was he on a different story or does he have voices in his head asking him questions with nonsensical answers.
Ride on Chris, be careful though there are those who will accuse you of renouncing your citizenship out there.
The right wing neo-con nut-jobs out there (and on this board they know who they are) hate to admit to any errors in judgement, then cannot come up with a real plan to fix anything---nothing can be fixed if one does not believe there is a problem.
...have one thing in common: everything is a conspiricy.
Keep reading the posts, my insight will come to you. Also, try some brevity.
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