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Jun 12, 2007, 18:47 GMT
BACKGROUND: 100 million deaths under communism
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Older Talkback
And how many political deaths have there been from democracy?
....exactly
So its Communisms fault that the US carpet bombed Cambodia? I can see counting numbers who were killed in gulags and such, but throwing '100 million killed by Communism' out there is just stupid.
I am not a communist, but I am continually frustrated with the ignorance of the seemingly most educated among us regarding what communism is. Communism is an ECONOMIC system, not a political system! A dictatorship is to a democracy as capitalism is to communism. The press pushes this propaganda with Cuba regularly, calling it 'Communist Cuba' as naseum; this is like calling America 'Capitalist America!' Communism is not exclusive to dictatorships to more than capitalism is equivalent with democracy. Communism is NOT responsible for deaths, the fascist dictators who run the country are! An economic system is not responsible for killing people. Sheeesh.
Hmm.. Maybe they should create a memorial commemorating all the millions of deaths that were a result of American Imperialist Intervention in Latin America and the Rest of the third world. Lets start, 75,000 in El Salvador, over 200,000 in Guatemala, Hundreds of thousands in Iraq, Vietnam, African nations and the list goes on and on... Plus these figures do not include the thousands of 'Disappeared' that were snatched by UNITED STATES BACKED FASCIST REGIMES all over the world!!
Also WHY DONT THEY MAKE A MEMORIAL COMMEMORATING THE MILLIONS OF NATIVE AMERICANS THAT PERISHED due to starvation, forced relocation and countless massacres DURING THE BIRTH OF THE UNITED STATES!!!!
THE UNITED STATES SHOULD LOOK INTO ITS OWN HISTORY BEFORE TRUMPETING AND POINTING THE FINGER AT OTHERS!
how many have died in the name of 'god'? perhaps a memorial should be errected for this as well
Unfortunately Russia has not finished killing people.
There can be no doubt that President Putin is behind the recent assassinations in Moscow and London. His is the mind that is directing these evil acts with total deniability, of course. What Putin has established in the Kremlin is a Murder Inc. Mafia controlling total political and economic power. Death squads are roaming out from the Kremlin. Anyone who threatens – this power – is eliminated. The first act of nucleur terriorism came not from Al-Qaeda and Osma bin laden but from the Kremlin and President Putin. Just as Russia was about to emerge from 1000 years of darkness, into the light of democratic freedom - Putin and his KGB gang has plunged his people back into the abyss. Quoting the famous Russian writer Vladimir Sorokin “Germans, Frenchmen and Englishmen can say of themselves: 'I am the state.' I cannot say that. In Russia only the people in the Kremlin can say that. All other citizens are nothing more than human material with which they can do all kinds of things.” This is the Russia, Putin has created. An immoral, lawless wasteland. He is a traitor to his country. He is a traitor to his people.
By
larry Houle
www.eudemocracy.net
Wow. A lot of hard feelings here. Admittedly, lumping many events under a single umbrella makes for some unfairness. Rather than preach to a brick wall, let me move on to something else interesting about this story: Given China's efforts to pretend Tiananmen Square, aren't they angry that a sculpture was modeled after something from that 'incident' in order to commemorate these deaths? This seems to be an affront equal to any time the U.S. government publicly supports Taiwan.
OK, the US is not innocent but I believe the point is this: first, in terms of scale of horrificness, communism dwarfs all others. Second, if you want to complain about killings in the name of God, again atheism (communism) dwarfs all others. If you hate the US so much, go somewhere else for a few decades. Then we'll talk about how awful the US is.
Since there is a Communist Party, communism is a political system that starts with the economic principles of Socialism which is an economic theory. Don't hide behind semantics to defend this horrible bastardised system of domination.As to how many have been killed by Democracy, that is a government, political system that killed lots of Nazis, Fascists and Communists thank you and working on killing Islamists nuts.
If one believes that Communism is a better way to live, it is very easy to go to Communist thinking countries but you had better hurry because they are finding quickly the obvious advantages of Capitalism and Democracy. Look at China and Russia. Cuba is the main Communist held land and when wacko dies, Cuba will drop that stupid starving habit as soon as they can get boat building back in business. The class hating jealousy of the non achievers towards the winners never succeeded in bettering anyone. The motto, 'Take away from each according to his ability to produce and give to each according to how much he can need,' only made the producers slack off so as not to be robbed from so all became desperately needy.Death to communism and class hate. Workers of the world,, Work, !!
And how democratic is capitalism? Ask Hitler.
No one has died because of democracy, at least not when it has been pluralistic. However, millions have died both directly and indirectly because of capitalism which, at least in it's present form, is hierarchical and anti-democratic. The dirty little secret of capitalism is that it is no more inherently democratic than is communism. Pure participatory democracy is when all institutions, *including the means of production* (aka. your job), are democratically managed from the bottom up. This is not capitalism, but 'socialism', and the allegedly democratic US government and it's corporate handlers have spent trillions of our tax dollars to ensure that no truly socialist example succeeds in rising to such prominence that it exposes capitalisms dirty little secret to the world. Hopefully that will all change as the 'Bolivarian Revolution' of participatory democracy and endogenous development takes root in Bolivia, Ecuador, and Nicaragua, and eventually spreads through South America and into the entire so called 'third world'.
Six Billion Tortured to Death Under Capitalism
In reference to the 'Bolivarian Revolution' I of course forgot to mention the vanguard nation of this anti-imperialist struggle for independence, Venezuela.
How many deaths can be attributed to Capitalism and the unbriled pursuit of Consumerism as a lifestyle? How much of the catastrophe of global warming can be attributed to Capitalism and Consumerism.
Another load of crap for this president to dump on us.
Let's take a look at the way that researchers arrived at some of those numbers...focusing on China, in particular, under Mao. These 'historians' basically blame Mao for the fact that during the Great Leap Forward, China was hit by droughts in some areas, and floods in others, the likes of which the country hadn't seen in a century or more. Then they extrapolate out from there to say that a lot more people *would have been born* had it not been for all the people who died. In other words, Mao is guilty of 'killing' people who were never born.
So I guess in that case Bush can say, 'We will never know their names' and not be lying...for once.
In other instances, 'researchers' from this Black Book as much as hold communist movements responsible for EVERY death, regardless of cause, that took place in countries where they held power. To do so makes about as much sense as saying, 'Abraham Lincoln killed millions'.
Compare this to the Bush regime's constant denial of the Lancet study's scientific assessment last year that over 650,000 people had died as a result of the occuaption in Iraq. This number was arrived at by scientific means that were rigrous, and accepted by all kinds of international humanitarian bodies, as well the US government itself--it supported the same methods to estimate the deaths in Kosovo, for example.
It's time to fight for truth. If communists have something to answer for, so be it. We should all learn from our mistakes. But lying about the past to serve an imperialist agenda doesn't help anyone understand the truth, and it sure as hell doesn't make anyone any more 'free'.
How many deaths can be attributed to Capitalism and the unbriled pursuit of Consumerism as a lifestyle? How much of the catastrophe of global warming can be attributed to Capitalism and Consumerism?
Larry Houle are you stupid on purpose?
Do you live in Russia? NO.
Traitor to his people? Of course he is with 80% approval ratings.
And they count revolutions as people dying under communism? Okay why dont we just blame everything on Communism. I really dont see how an economic system is to blame for the actions of dictators.
And I agree, why dont we count the millions of Native American and African dead due to Western Imperialism.
Right on! The restof you morons who think communism is so great should try living under it for a few years. When you came back you would kiss the soil of the USA. Death to communism and the sooner the better.
I dont think that the United States has Finished killing people either even within its own borders, And I especially do not think that The 'DEATHS DUE TO COMMUNISM' dwarf those caused by the genocidal actions of a country that markets itself as a Democracy. The millions of Native American deaths and the destructions of entire nations is white washed and smeared with a shiny lacquer in order to hide it. What do you call reservations my friends 'THESE ARE DETENTION CAMPS' places where you put people you do not want and you marginalize them in order for them to allow you do your ethnic cleansing easier.
Furthermore, some of those 'DEATHS BY COMMUNISM' in southeast Asia came about as a direct result of United States actions, during the Vietnam war the United States promised the Hmong people their own country if they helped them fight the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong. Well the United States was defeated and abandoned the Hmong to their own demise. I guess that if they cant give back the lands they stole from the Native Americans they cant give another group of people a country.
Another point Cuba is much better off under communism than whenever it was called the 'Gangsters Playground' during the 1930's and whenever the island was full of brothels corrupt US backed dictators and the people sold themselves as objects to the American underworld.
Bolivia and Venezuela turned towards a Socialist model Why? Well because the US BACKED NEOLIBERAL POLICIES HAVE ROBBED IT OF ITS REASOURCES and left people starving and void of a national Identity and they want to reclaim that which they have lost and is rightfully theirs.
One thing I must make clear is that the ones in power in the United States are the ones to blame for this distortion of History not the masses of citizens that are kept dormant with trash propaganda like this.
When they built the memorials to the 6 million Jewish victims of the Holocaust, I'm sure there were a couple embittered ex-Nazi's who protested -- just as there are some embittered ex-Marxists here. These people will never feel abashed at the multitude of Communism's victims; they feel more comfortable pointing elsewhere - capitalism, democracy, whatever - and making arguments about moral equivalence. The truth, though, is that COMMUNISM (not capitalism, not U.S. Imperialism, not even (gasp) religion) is the worst scourge of mankind, the movement responsible for the most death and tyranny, the number one manufacturer of human misery and poverty in history. If you can't deal with that fact, that's YOUR problem. But don't expect anyone to listen to you.
America has given me the freedom to get an education, study hard, work hard, buy my own home and raise a family. My grandparents and great grandparents were Catholic immigrants from Germany and Italy who came to America in the 1800's and early 1900's with very little but the clothes they had on. They worked as carpenters and farmers and my parents worked hard too as a scientist and a nurse. Free enterprise is what they took too, owning their own land or businesses or working for a company as an employee and keeping profits therefrom for their families. I have received little from them financially but received something of immensely more value...a work ethic as well as my Catholic faith.
I now own my own business and support my family as we pay off our mortgage and save for the future. I cannot imagine having the freedom to work or the freedom to save or the freedom to practice my Catholic faith in any of the communist countries.
America truly is a great place to live and work. I hope we can keep it that way...that we do not become socialistic with the government providing for us instead of ourselves or with fanatic islamists or evangelicals or secularists denying our freedom to remain Catholic in our thinking.
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