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Jan 3, 2007, 8:43 GMT
FBI details Guantanamo abuse witnessed by its agents
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Older Talkback
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What as hame .Can anybody please explain to the world if there is any justification for this kind of behaviour .To me it looks that since communism is no longer an alibi to feed the military-industrial complex with trillions of dollars ,a new ennemy is carefully groomed and fed to serve as a new justification for overspending on miltary needs .Indeed there is no better way to create a cohort of so-called terrorists than to antagonise a new community .It would have been far easier to spend all those dollars on social security and medicare ,helping also poor people allover the world .But no ,Halliburton,Lockheed,Boeing,Raytheon anda few hunderd of other companies currently engaged in wartrading haveother interests .Do not forget who rules the US ,is it Carlysle,Halliburton,etc or is it the people .Make a wild guess .THe only thing different in a democracy like the US is that you are carefully manipulated to vote for whoever the capitalist entrepreneurs want you to elect .
Feel sorry for you but there is no way out .Even your press and media arein the hands of those companies .THe new ideology is now officialy patriotism.Cast your brains away.Fowx does the thinking for you
Close the facility! Secretive detention centers invite this sort of abuse especially when our leaders established them intentionally to side-step the traditional justice system along with its well-established rules for detainee treatment. Moreover, putting inexperienced poorly instructed and poorly lead individuals into positions of power seems to have been the source for many recent instances of such abuse. Sounds like a field test of the Stanford experiment.
May the day come when the atrocities committed by the power-hungry
warlords in the White House return as brutal fruit from a vine they
themselves poisoned.
What has become of our country? Where is our righteous indignation? Are we in the US only capable of being self-righteous? When I was in high school I participated in letter-writing campaigns for Amnesty International supporting political prisoners in places like China. Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined that I would grow up to live in a place where military tribunals rob individuals of the right to a fair trial, and where the use of torture would become a seriously debated issue.
Really, hasn't this gone on long enough? Red states, blue states, whatever. This is our country. As long as we continue to allow this we are all to blame.
hey blaine . the way you discribe how incompetent people are appointed to do the job , is right-on . that is an excellent discription of how our liberal government here in canada goes about the job . congratulations , now you to can enjoy the same standards with new house and senate . my point is ; it is not if , but when the crowd that is detained at gitmo. and their free roaming buddies , finally get around to sticking a nuke or someother unpleasant thing up somebodies butt , for my money , the interragators can do what they please . if it's your city that gets whacked , and you servive , i 'am pretty sure you'll come around to my way of thinking . i'm not the kind of person to take a wait-and-see attitude when dealing with people as dangerous as these people are . particularly with the resorces that are available in this day and age . such resources , and these dangerous 'detainies' , are just no fun at all . bleeding hearts ? no thanks .
Do any of you people read what you write. First know that i'm not in favor of the war but since the people in charge put us there the only answer is to WIN at any cost.You bleeding hearts and the ACLU make me and any red blooded american sick. Maby you should go to some of the websites that show these scumbags sawing of the heads of their captors with no remorse for their feelings but you people are up in arms over what we do. Wake up people this is a war weather you like it or not and we need to win.
G.W.Bush has got to be the WORST President of the United States of America in recorded history.
He has, by his policies, brought worldwide shame and condemation on the American Flag.
I bet Abraham Lincon is turning in his grave.
OOoops typo!...Abraham Lincoln.
..I wonder what old ABE have to would say to George...???
They call that torture? Huh? No missing fingers or toes? No missing eyes? No slavering, drooling idiots from electric shock?
One thing in this tread I agree with - you've become a bunch of domestic sheep.
Give me a break!!!! How about a detailed report of treatment given enemies captured by Russia, Bosnia, Libya, Israel, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanastan, Iran, China etc. I'm sure all is above board there; no evil doing there. Hell, some of the punishments for petty crimes in some of those countries are considered torture by most of the world. Sometime, in order to beat a swine, you have to become one.
The prisoners at Gitmo haven't been found guilty in a legal proceeding.
Can any of you who support our governments policies at Gitmo grasp the signifigance of that omission?
If not, please go back to elementary school.
We've abandoned the most basic principle of true American justice.
To Jerry I'll ask ... If we become like our enemies, how are we any better then them??
hey get real . where do you get off thinking that we think we are better than them ? we're no better than them .we don't think we are . but we do hold that our life-style is very much well worth preserving . when this is all said and done , would you rather stick your butt in the air 5 times a-day , or would you rather party down , and groove to some rock n roll ?
Who cares.
Rock n Roll fan ...
You miss the point completely.
o.k. get real . what exactly is the point then , that i have completly missed ? enlighten me .
And Americans talk about democracy! America is and always has been a warmongering nation - you only have to go to Arlington cemetery to see that. When news of Abu Grain broke, Bush, Cheyney, Rumsfeldt et all were quick to ascertain that this was the work of only a few 'rogue' elements. A few? The US Army is riddled with them. US troops in Iraq have virtually no knowledge of the country and its history, they are loud mouthed bullies - just as they were in Vietnam. They treat indiginous people - and particulartly anyone who is Muslim - as 'geeks'. Anybody who - like our 'red-blooded' American friend above who is made to feel sick by anyone who disagrees with his self-righteous beliefs, should realize that it is, in fact, they who are sick. They are very sick people, indeed. If those of us in the rest of the world disapprove of their 'red-necked' ideas (i.e. America is best, biggest, toughest, strongest, and of course always right),we are dubbed -yellow livered etc. When human beings subject others to the kind of treatment being dished out at Guantanamo (and no doubt elsewhere) - and when this treatment is seen to be part of a government policy -- then those people forfeit the right to being considered civilised.
Im from Ireland and I know that because of americas war crimes and multiple breeches of the geneva convention and now invention of a new term for prisoners of war (enemy combattants), america is the most despised country on this plannet.
I feel very sorry for the good american people who have written condemming this
american terrorism but it is the idiots like rock and roll twat who isent even american that is giving that part of the world a bad name.
When are bush cheney and rumsfeld going to be imprisoned?
And will they expect to be treated like this if they think its fair and christian.
Sadly, it must also be stated that even those Americans who disapprove of Abu Graib and Guantanamo (etc) but who voted for Bush are equally guilty. They cannot blame others when they themselves have contributed to the atrocities. For Democrats who are dismayed by what has been, and is being, allowed to happen, it is understandably a hand-wringing time. Sadly, they cannot claim to belong to a civilised nation and unfortunate as it may be, they will be tainted with the brush of those currently in power. Americans all too often ask themselves why the rest of the world seems to hate them. Answer: Abu Graib, Guantanamo, Vietnam, naive American foreign policy, the belief that anybody can be steamrollered by the monolithic American 'culture (Coke, Hamburgers, garbage TV, lack of taste.
Why do people all over the world detest Americans? If you red-necks can't figure it out, here are some suggestions:
1. Disgusting, arrogant and rude treatment by
Immigration officials.
2. Numerous cases of incorrect US data leading to detention and deportation of British citizens.
3. British citizens detained and shackled in jail for up to 28 hours without food or water pending deportation, without access to lawyers or family, even when US data has been proved wrong and no offence has been committed.
4. US now requires 34 separate pieces of personal data 72 hours in advance of flying.
5. All British visitors to be fingerprinted and photographed on entry, and thus criminalized. This does not happen to US visitors to Britain, where they are treated with courtesy rather than officious rudeness.
6. Personal data passed on by US authorities and US airlines to private companies.
7. In 2006, US will require biometric records of eyes, ears, fingerprints etc on passports. In other words, The United States is dictating to other countries what information should be on their passports. There are no guarantees as to how this information will be used by the United States once it is in their possession! This is akin to the KGB.
8. Why go to a country that treats you like a criminal when there are so many other places to go where you are welcomed and appreciated?
9. U.S. blockades Cuba while John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy repeatedly attempted to have Castro assassinated. They also deliberately set out to bring down the economy of Cuba out of continuing paranoia about Communism even after the Cold War and collapse of the old Soviet Union.
10. U.S. attacked Grenada, Libya, Panama, Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Sudan - all in the name of ANational Security@.
11. 1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran and installs the Shah as dictator.
1954: U.S. o vefrthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
1963. U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1963-75. American military kills four million people in Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos)
1973: U.S. stages a coup in Chile. Democratically elected Marxist President Salvador Allende is murdered. General Pinochet is installed as dictator. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA givers them $3 billion.
1981: U.S. Reagan administration trains and funds ‘contras’. 30,000 Nicaraguans die as a result.
1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
1983: U.S. White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.
1983: U.S. invades the small Caribbean nation of Grenada. The fiery leftist President Maurice Bishop had been assassinated days earlier. The initial invasion in October consisted of some 1,200 US troops. At the time of the invasion, a delegation of 500 Cubans were in the country. They included doctors, engineers, teachers and construction workers, who were there to help build an international civilian airport for Grenada. When the US forces moved in they landed at the airport, they killed more than a dozen Cubans and more than 40 Grenadian soldiers. The U.S. quickly consolidated its occupation of the island and expanded its force to more than 7,000. By December a pro-American government was established.
1989: CIA agent Man uel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties.
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
1991: U.S.enters Iraq. President Bush Snr reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
1998: Clinton bombs ‘weapons factory’ in Sudan. It was actually making aspirin.
1991-2000. American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. United Nations estimate 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in ‘aid’. Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people in the 9/11 disaster.
12. Torture in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, (the word >torture= often downgraded by politicians using doublespeak as Astress and duress@).
13. Total failure of American media - and sickening bias on the part of Fox News - to tell the truth about the Iraq War.
14. Corruption of the Bush administration and neo-conservatives, especially with regard to disenfranchising voters in Florida in the 2000 elections.
15. Massive greed by Bush administration and business associates in grabbing oil and construction contracts in Iraq and elsewhere. The corruption of awarding many of these extremely lucrative contracts to Halliburton (in which Bush and Cheyney have stakes).
16.
U.S. government has shown utter contempt for the United Nations.
17. Arrogance born of military power ... disrespect for other cultures ... penchant for foisting American >democracy= on other nations, whether they want it or not.
18. George Bush jnr denies US is seeking to create a new American Empire but plans for administering Iraq are similar to the >assimilation= of the Philippines . AWe come, not as invaders or conquerors, A President McKinley said then - Abut as friends to protect the natives in their homes, in their employments and in their personal and religious rights.@ An estimated 200,000 civilians died between 1899 and 1902 as the US benevolently assimilated the Philippines!!! Similarly, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died in the current war.
19. Bush says ANow that Saddam has gone, the world is a safer place.@ This is an oft-repeated falsehood. There were no terrorists in Iraq prior to the Bush=s War on Iraq, which created the conditions for terrorists - i.e. poor security, open borders and a population with a grievance. Those countries that joined the Bush alliance (Britain, Spain, Australia, Philippines, Japan etc.) are now considered legitimate terrorist targets.
20. The Patriot Act and Homeland Security Bill has resulted in fear amongst Asian and Muslim immigrants to the US. 18,000 have been deported - many having lived for years in the US legitimately and with children who are born Americans - a massive increase. The Patriot Act enables US government agencies to storm into peoples homes, take their computers and any other >evidence= they feel they need, and arrest them, in ways that once were considered a major violation of civil rights.
21. The current American paranoia is reminiscent of the McCarthy days, creating an atmosphere of fear at the mere mention of the words Muslim, Asian, or foreign.
22. American financial support which enabled the IRA to carry out terrorist attacks on Britain and Northern Ireland for more than 30 years.
23. The entire New-Conservative agenda, which in many respects is akin to Nazism.
24. An appallingly naive and simplified view of the world.
25. Utter disdain for environmental issues. Failure to sign up to the Kyoto agreement to cut greenhouse gases. The greed of a nation using a disproportionate amount of the world=s finite resources with no attempt to save energy or conserve the environment.
26. Cultural isolation caused by paranoia about Cubans, Muslims, people from the Middle East (and France). Refusing entry to, or demanding six months notice for visa applications (which are not completed for eight months or more) from artists, musicians, opera singers so that many now do not think it is worth the hassle applying. As a result, US Festivals will not book foreign artists, who don=t want to go anyway. New CDs are not released because there is no tour support. Famous opera singers and other musicians from France, Spain and Italy are not getting the work they used to get. Others have been refused entry to collect prizes they have won. Without art and music, the dominant images US citizens see of Muslims are of crazed extremists while the most striking they see are images of torture at Abu Ghraib and bombed children. This utter paranoia and cultural isolation is playing into the hands of extremists at a time when reaching out to moderate, cultured Muslims and exchanging the best cultural and artistic ideas with them would be especially beneficial.
27. Total failure to address the humiliation of the Palestinians by the Israelis. Total failure to understand the negative effects of the Israeli-Palestinian problem on the Arab world (i.e. how it fosters hatred of the West). Turning a blind eye to Israel=s contempt for United Nations resolutions - whilst going to war partially on the grounds of Saddam Hussein=s contempt for United Nations resolutions.
28. This attitude will almost certainly turn anti-Israeli organisations such as Hamas against the United States and Britain - and, together with the US attitude to poverty, environmental issues, world trade and its own neo-Conservative agenda, may well result in Hamas etc forming loose associations with Al Qaeda.
29. There are now more people willing to become suicide bombers - and more people who support them B in Palestine than ever before as a result of the Iraq War and the U.S. failure to address the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with any degree of seriousness (not least because no President can be elected in the U.S. without the Jewish vote).
30. The United States is the world=s greatest consumer and the world=s greatest polluter - yet its isolation, insularity and ignorance, it refuses to take heed of the problems of poverty, global warming and other environmental issues. Moreover, the number of people worldwide killed by famine, flood, mudslides, and hurricanes probably caused by global warming, far outstrip the number of victims from terrorism. Ergo - it is by far the greater problem.
31. Total failure of the US to address the question of world poverty - and particularly Arab poverty - is appalling. Ethiopian coffee farmers selling coffee beans for ,1 not surprisingly are resentful that the same beans sell for ,250 in London. Unfair trade breeds poverty - and poverty breeds discontent, resentment, hatred of the West - and terrorism.
32. Yet, today, one in five Arabs live on less than $2 a day, a total of some 60 million people worldwide. This figure is likely to double in the next five years (as of 2005). 10,000 people die from poverty every day, compared to 3,000 people who died in A9/11'.
33. Poverty is getting worse. The world population is exploding from six billion to nine billion, which causes greater destruction of forests (by people who need firewood) and greater use of water, which is getting shorter. In Lebanon, the need for water may well eventually cause a war with Israel. Similarly if Ethiopia, whose population is set to double in the next 20 years, drains water from the Nile for drinking and irrigation, it could cause war with Egypt.
34. Neo-conservatives argue that terrorists are not on the poverty line, but often come from rich families. This misses the point. It may sometimes be true - but it ignores the fact that, given the above figures on poverty - and the hatred of the west emanating from them, the 'War on Poverty' is infinitely more important than any 'War on Terror'. Addressing the former may win hearts and minds. Concentrating on the latter simply creates more terrorists - a truism that most informed people and governments understand, but which seems to escape Bush and the neo-conservatives in the United States.
35. The U.S. election costs two billion dollars. What would that have done to help the war on poverty? Americans speak of their country being the 'greatest democracy in the world' But no one can become President without massive injections of money or without the Jewish vote, or Irish, black or Hispanic votes. And how does the Patriot Act serve civil liberties and democracy. Worse - anybody who disagrees and puts forth such arguments is instantly labelled as a Commy, a Red, a pointy-headed liberal etc etc etc.
I look back at what various U.S. administrations and the CIA have done to countries with whose democratically elected governments they disagree: Chile ... Guatemala ... Laos ... Vietnam ... Cambodia ... Venezuela ... Cuba … Grenada. I look back at how the US supported Osama Bin Laden - the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. I look at Honduras, where workers are paid 56 cents an hour and the owners of a Korean T-Shirt factory receive $2.20 per dozen T-shirts - which are sold in the U.S. for $15 each! I look at the millions living in poverty, scavenging for food on landfill sites, in Latin America where the US has propagated >Free Trade= when they really mean >Free Markets loaded in favour of US exports - at a time when the US government continues to subsidise heavily its own farmers - thus making it impossible for Latin American farmers to compete. I look at the collapse of the coffee bean industry .... at the bananas I am forced to buy in Britain etc etc etc. And I cannot conclude anything other than how hateful American foreign policy really is.
I look at the obscenity of the National Rifle Association – incessantly rabbiting on about how guns don't kill people only people kill people. Rubbish! Guns do kill people. That is their very purpose.
And I look at the gas guzzling vehicles, the appalling waste, the massive overeating throughout the United States and I conclude that this is a country that in its neo-conservative insularity simply doesn’t give a damn about the rest of the world.
It is not good enough to say: “Ah Yes, but Americans as individuals are very different. They are not. Individuals vote for Administrations. Individuals voted for Present Bush and his Neo-Conservatives. They are equally to blame for the hatred incurred worldwide against them.
Sorry about the typos - it's mostly apostrophes,dashes, dollar signs etc.
Thank you Sam. (but the terrible thing is most of them arent intellegent enough to read, understand it and are too stupid to believe it.
but to the ones who had the aptitude to read it and absorb it, Sam's
reasons are a few reasons why you are isolated and hated.
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