In photos: 'Hillary Clinton suspends her campaign'
US Features
By M&C News Jun 7, 2008, 19:40 GMT
Bill Clinton - View Bill Clinton Pictures - Bill Clinton News
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Chelsea Clinton - View Chelsea Clinton Pictures - Chelsea Clinton News
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Hillary Clinton - View Hillary Clinton Pictures - Hillary Clinton News
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Older Talkback
The Photos are excellent. Thank you M&C for uploading them.
It really doesn't matter who win's the U.S election. All candidate's worship AIPAC's money and will inflict more wars in the M.E. and the M.E will race to arm themselves with nuclear weapons for defence/deterrent purposes. As long as Israel exists; there will never be peace on earth.
put the word out:
We don't scare easily.
Defense Policy: In the middle of a war on two fronts, Barack Obama plans to gut the military. He also wants to dismantle our nuclear arsenal. And he wants to keep you in the dark about it.
The Obamatons of the mainstream media have failed to report one of the most chilling campaign promises thus far uttered by the presumptive Democrat nominee for president.
He made it before the Iowa caucus to a left-wing pacifist group that seeks to reallocate defense dollars to welfare programs. The lobbying group, Caucus for Priorities, was so impressed by Obama's anti-military offering that it steered its 10,000 devotees his way.
In a 132-word videotaped pledge (still viewable on YouTube), Obama agreed to hollow out the U.S. military by slashing both conventional and nuclear weapons.[...]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnz1KF9ZjjE
You can bet that Obama will not make this sweeping indictment of our security forces again as he tries to move to the center in the general election. But this is what he thinks, and this is what he plans to do.
His campaign Web site doesn't list a separate category for military or defense under 'Issues.' But search shows near-identical language there regarding nuclear weapons.
While there is fat in the defense budget, defense spending both as a share of GDP and the total federal budget are still at historically low levels, despite the war.
And while cutting fat out of the defense budget is a worthy goal, Obama would cut beyond fat to bone.
Caucus for Priorities aims to redirect 15% of the Pentagon's discretionary budget away from 'obsolete Cold War weapons towards education, health care, job training, alternative energy development, world hunger and deficit-reduction.'
On the chopping block: the F-22 Raptor, the V-22 Osprey, the Virginia-class sub, the DDG-1,000 destroyer and the Army's Future Combat System.
Cutting allegedly 'unproven' missile defense systems is music to Kim Jong Il's and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's ears, let alone all the PLA generals wishing our destruction.
Yet Obama wants to kill a program that's yielding success after success, with both sea- and land-based systems. The military just this week intercepted a ballistic missile near Hawaii in a sea-based missile defense test.[...]
In contrast, John McCain has vowed: 'We must continue to deploy a safe and reliable nuclear deterrent, robust missile defenses and superior conventional forces that are capable of defending the United States and our allies.'
RE:'Who will stop him?'
A number of corporations for starters, but then there is also Bubba Jones and the Republicans. Do you really think that they will just sit around and let this bunch run over them? I don't.
RE:'He hasn’t been in the senate long enough to know anything. Look at his record, he has missed most of his votes. Just kike when he was a state senator.'
Perhaps I should have said that he has been in politics long enough to know better. He certainly understands what happens if he annoys the wrong people. By the way, if there any out there still thinking that his past will catch up with Senator Obama now, had best disabuse themselves. There isn't a DA in the country who would try to indict the newly elected nominee of the Democrat Party.
RE:'Yes, the legislative branch is supposed to be a check on the executive. The democrats will have both if Obama is elected. They will have a sizable majority in the legislative. Not having obama IS the only check and balance we will have for at least the next 4 years. '
You forget that the people of this country are and always have been the final check, which is what I pointed out in my previous post. How do you think Bubba Jones is going to react when his job disappears? You think we had a high misery index under President Carter? You ain't seen nothin' yet.
RE:'You can’t just unilaterally abrogate specific terms on something like NAFTA.'
True, but there are other trade treaties pending.
RE:'The Canadians have rightfully said that if we were not going to live up to our word (remember that funny joke? Our word? Does that mean anything any more? Not in the face of hope ‘n change) then the whole thing was open for re-negotiation. When it was negotiated it was at $11 a bbl, now it is at $130 and rising. Where do you think we get most of our oil? That is just an example. The clear point is that you have someone who is dangerously naive and who has complete disdain for American sovereignty who is going to be making these compromises.'
We buy about fifty-percent of our crude from the Canadians. Most of that comes from 'oil sands' and is only profitable for the Canucks because they happen to also have quite a bit of natural gas handy. The price of oil closed $139.54 on Friday. We may as well call it $140/bbl. I'm here to tell you, Bubba, that the only way the price of crude is going to go down in the currently climate is if Congress unbends and allows development of resources in US jurisdiction. By the way, the Chinese are now in a position to steal US oil thanks to Cuba. I KNOW they have been buying the equipment that would allow them to pull that off. John McCain continues to support this stupidity.
Back to our existing treaties. They are NOT being adequately enforced. Mostly because the US will be called big bad greedy assholes, but so what? We are already living with that label.
RE:'80+% of the crude oil used in the world today goes in and out of the Strait of Hormuz that connects the Gulf of Oman to the Arabian gulf. The Iranians have repeatedly threatened and tried to close it off. They have mined it.'
I know and I remember what happened the last time they did.
RE:'1) If we turn over Iraq too soon it will become stage for a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The sunnis and the shiites will be at each others throats over who gets control over the oil and it’s wealth. It doesn’t matter who wins, either side will set up a failed, terrorist friendly state in the geographic center of the middle east. Look up Mackinder's heartland theory and read about the concept of pivot points. Iraq is the hub of the middle east. If it is a successful democracy then stability will spread, if it is a failed terrorist state, then islamist terrorism will spread. It is that simple and that obvious.'
Yes, I agree. You and I have agreed on this in the past. No argument from me on this point. Invading Iraq made sound strategic sense. Whether or not there was a good moral case for it was and remains the issue. As I am sitting here writing this, C-Span is broadcasting testimony before Congress by Iraqi MP's. They are saying that we should withdraw our troops. They are proposing that we should withdraw on a timetable. They are also saying that the do NOT want us to have permanent bases in Iraq. They are also saying that the scheduled withdrawal should not last beyond two-to-three years. This is what they are telling Dana Rohrabacher. The Iraqis are insisting that there is no local threat with which they cannot deal with alone. We are about to be leaving Iraq whether we think it is a good idea or not.
The Iraqi position tells me three things.
1) They really do want us to leave. This should surprise no one. As much as we have in common with the British and as much as we genuinely love each other, we were sick and tire of each other by the time Germany fell.
2) They know that an immediate withdrawal of US troops would result in disaster.
3) They are, wisely in my opinion, doing their absolute best to get ahead of political developments in the United States. They can see what is coming.
There are no flies on Iraq's political leadership. If Barak Obama is elected there is great risk that we will simply withdraw at once, so they are agreeing with him in advance that US troops should be withdrawn, but then they ask that this be done on a schedule that allows them to take full control of their country. It seems very unlikely to me that even Barack Obama would refuse such a request from Iraqi leadership.
If Senator McCain wins the election, they fear that they will be pressured to accept a permanent US troop presence in Iraq. I happen to agree with Senator McCain on this point, we do NEED to maintain a permanent presence in Iraq, but the Iraqi's aren't having that. They also fear, quite reasonably, that there is a war brewing between the US and Iran. Were I an Iraqi I would say, 'We've had enough fighting, thank you very much. Please fight your war from some other direction.'
RE:'2) If our allies in the region see that we cravenly run from wars that we started there will be no incentive to help us do anything. If we are a country that can not be believed then you will see the gulf states stop cooperating with issues like terrorism and trade. Want to see the dollar take a bigger hit? Watch what happens when they start trading oil in other currencies.'
Do I want to see the dollar to take a bigger hit? No, but then I do not see how it can be avoided at this point. The dollar is done, stick a fork in it. As for the cooperation of our alleged allies, I think they are done with us. Their own politics are coming into play. After all, the lodestone of all politics in every country in the Middle East is the Koran, not Enlightenment Era Philosophy. Further, without the support of Russian and India, we will NEVER be able to do very much about Iran.
3) If Iran is allowed to acquire an atomic bomb they can make good their threat to close the Strait of Hormuz. They will too. They will also probably make good on their threat to wipe out Israel.
Yes, I agree. They certainly WILL close the Strait of Hormuz. They will not close it forever, but just long enough to separate us from what is left of our European and Asiatic allies. They are already paying dramatically higher prices for liquid fuels than we are. If we impose a blockade on the Iranians in an effort to bring them to heel, we will immediately broaden the war. Our remaining 'allies' will not support such a blockade and they certainly will not help us out in the ensuing war. If we are to tackle Iran without help, then we need to do a great deal of preparatory work prior to hostilities. We had best hurry that up because there are no flies on the Iranians (they are crazy, not stupid) and they will begin hostilities at time and place suitable to THEM.
The real answer to the Iranian problem is three-fold. First, we MUST tap our own resources as a stop-gap. Just the mere announcement that we intend to do would drop the price of oil dramatically. Second we MUST start working on substitutes for crude, RIGHT NOW. Third we must continue to enact increasingly strict fuel economy standards. We must find a means of staying on this course in the face of falling crude prices, because the price of crude WILL. This is not a problem that the free market can solve. Also, this approach will be of great use to us and everyone else once the Straits of Hormuz are closed--and they will be.
As for Israel, Ahmadinjad is ALREADY making good on his threat. He does NOT need nukes to do that job. The Israelis themselves are doing that job for him, helped along by AIPAC and the UN. No, I am not crazy. Take a good hard look at the stuff AIPAC has been championing and read the pages of Ha'aretz and the Jerusalem Post. The Israelis have come down with the same debilitating disease afflicting our own Democrats. Despite all the decrying of AIPAC by Arabs and anti-Semites, AIPAC and the UN are the two best allies they have. HAMAS and Hezbollah are shaping the battlefield ahead of the war as I sit here writing this. They have been doing that for a long time now. They have studied General Giap closely and they are doing a good job of emulating him. Hell, I'll quote the wily old Jungle Fox:
'We paid a high price [during the Ted offensive] but so did you [Americans]... not only in lives and materiel.... Do not forget the war was brought into the living rooms of the American people. ... The most important result of the Ted offensive was it made you de-escalate the bombing, and it brought you to the negotiation table. It was, therefore, a victory....
The war was fought on many fronts. At that time the most important one was American public opinion.'
More in my next post.
RE:'Not really. I do not support the cap and trade nonsense,'
Okay, so here's a little bright spot on a news site. That's good to see.
RE:'but he also supports allowing states to decide whether or not they can drill off shore.'
Oh, do give me a break! If he is doing this just to pander to his Democrat buddies, it's a very stupid thing to do. He is hard core on national security, how can he hide behind his 'federalism' on this? I think he has decided that the Democrats are right about this is what I think. He is for damned sure buying into the rest of their watermelon blues. How do we otherwise explain his backing the Democrats when it comes to drilling for oil in Alaska?
RE:'He supports nuclear power'
And he's going to get oodles and oodles of heartfelt support from the Democrats on that, now isn't he? He will NOT get any support for the development from the Democrats and he WILL go along with them to create bigger monster than the SEVEN TRILLION dollar monster that just recently danced around on the floor of the US Senate.
RE:'and he has PROMISED not to get caught up in an international agreement like Kyoto unless China, India and Brazil also get on board.'
So did the Democrats! Kyoto was DOA, remember? 95-0! Oh, and he uses his 'federalism' to hide his support for OTHER watermelon nonsense. Quoting OnTheIssues.Org:
==========
Q: Schwarzenegger has proposed that California be allowed to implement much tougher emission requirements than apply to the rest of the country. Do you side with the governor or with the Bush administration?
A: I have to agree with the governor. I'm a federalist. The states should decide to enormous degrees what happens within those states, including off their coasts. The people of California have decided they don't want oil drilling off their coasts. The people of Louisiana have decided that they do. I applaud the governor's efforts and that of other states in this region and other states to try to eliminate the greenhouse gas emissions that are causing climate change. Suppose that the governor and I are wrong, and there's no such thing as climate change. We adopt these green technologies, of which the US and the innovative skills we have and the entrepreneurship and the free market cap-and-trade proposal is enacted. Then all we've done is giving our kids a cleaner world.
==========
RE:'A reoccurring theme in your whines about McCain is that he doesn’t deliberately offend democrats just for the sake of offending them. Maybe he isn’t stupid…'
You cannot oppose Democrat Ooglia without offending them! Their political approach is to act like a spoiled child in front of the news cameras. Oh, then they call you names and they swear to God and any who will listen that you are greedy blackguard who wants to destroy everything. So, if you are going to oppose them, you must NECESSARILY offend them and put up with their childish behavior.
RE:'For the Zillionth time, your choice is between someone who is going to give you some of what you want, someone who will listen to what you have to say and someone who doesn’t give a rats ass about National Security.'
He is NOT going to give me some of what I want. He isn't going to have the wherewithal to give me what you and I want. He does NOT listen to me or a great many other Republicans. Whenever we try to talk about what we want he gets mad, swells up and blows shit at us. He has gone out of his way to piss us off and guess what! He succeeded!
RE:'I hope it’s your friends and loved ones this time then. '
I don't blame you one bit for saying this. The truth is, I hope it does not happen at all, but there are no guarantees and there will not be any guarantees, even with John McCain in the White House. The truth is, those people mean us harm and they intend to do us harm and they will not go away just because we put an ersatz Republican in the White House. And, they will be after us just as hard as they ever have been with Barack Obama in the White House. It won't make any difference. That risk will remain the same irregardless. I don't buy the notion that electing a Democrat will increase that particular risk. If anything, a Democrat would have a freer hand to respond to another atrocity than a Republican would. The Democrats would not oppose Barack Obama after such an event.
RE:'If 9/11 didn’t get peoples heads right, and it didn’t obviously, you are going to have to reconcile yourself that a large segment of the population is simply oblivious and will be until something unimaginably horrible happens. You seem to have joined them, indeed, they are just clueless; You are something worse.'
I think that the World Trade Center Atrocity got the vast majority our heads right. What fouled everything up was Donald Rumsfeld and his gross mismanagement of the War in Iraq. Congress, I remind you, President Bush's approval rating hovers around 31% while the approval rating of Congress has been as low as 14%. People have more faith in large corporations than they do our sitting Congress.
What amazes me is that the Republicans, NOT being led by John McCain, have capitulated. They have shown all the vigor and willingness to fight that you would find in a beached jellyfish. Have I made you good and mad? GOOD! Maybe I can make a few more Republicans mad. You are all a bunch of spineless boobs who do not deserve my vote!
RE:'When Jimmy carter was elected we weren’t in the middle of a 2 front war against an enemy committed to murdering as many civilians as possible.'
Whoa! Wait a cotton picking minute! We were up against the Soviet Union back then, Bubba! They had targeted every US city of any size with them great big county-killin' nukes! Talk about being committed to killing as many civilians as possible! The Soviets were dead serious!
RE:'We didn’t have a debt that was 60% of gdp. Indeed, the USA was at arguably the height of the dynastic cycle.'
Boy, you really did buy into that revisionist bullshit they teach kids in college, didn't you? After Richard Nixon? After we had Henry Kissinger running around telling us that we would have to settle for being a second rate power? Give it a rest! Richard Nixon wrecked this country and the wrecking had nothing to with Watergate. Watergate was just the cherry on the frikkin' rubble.
RE:'At this critical juncture we do not have the luxury of electing someone as incompetent or as morally cowardly as Carter or Obama. Obama is actually worse then Carter by leaps and bounds. He can talk his way out of anything. Carter just looked hapless. Obama will have the failures pinned on the usual suspects.'
Oh, its worse than you realize! Guess who is about to become one Obama's key advisors! I'll give you a hint. It ain't gonna be Newt Gingrinch!
RE:'They were like pigs at the trough. They have made an undeniable mess. There is simply no excuse for the waste over the past 7 years. One of the few that stood against it was McCain which is why they hate his guts. Poorly lead? Perhaps. But the precise truth is that THEY screwed up. Again, McCain was one of the only ones shouting about the disgusting waste of money that is only going to get exponentially worse under Obama. '
Oh, I ain't all that upset about them rooting around in the trough with the Democrats. We will never put an end to that kind of crap. The best we can hope for is to keep it down to a dull roar. As disgusting as that is, it is not the real harm they did to us. It was there sloth and their failure to enact the things they promised that sticks in my craw. I could forgive a hundred bridges to no-where had they taken care of business.
You are, of course, completely correct about what will happen under a Barack Obama administration when it comes to porking around. It is part of the Democrat's self-destruct mechanism.
RE:'The obvious issue is how you go about doing it. The Khmer Rouge fixed their crude oil energy requirements in a few weeks by blowing up anything that ran on internal combustion. In the mean time, what then? Price controls? Nationalize the oil companies? Rationing?'
1) Conservation first. We build vehicles that use less fuel.
2) We tap our OWN resources and use them wisely.
3) We get serious about developing sources for bio-diesel. Bio-diesel can be grown in the oceans. It need necessarily be grown in tanks ashore where they would take up invaluable crop land. I would encourage the oil companies to develop this kind of resource. Oh, an there are also the reserves of methane clathrates that remain untouched to date. There is also cellulosic methane. We have the technology to make that in hand right now and are doing nothing with it.
RE:'All he needs is enough to be able to stop a veto override for Iraq and Afghanistan. North Korea and Iran will have to simmer a bit more.'
I think the issue over Iraq is moot. We'll be there for at least another three years. Obama would not be able to say no to the Iraqi's requests. Afghanistan is a completely different bucket of worms. There we are relying entirely too much on our spineless allies and we need to put more boots of our own on the ground, or our allies who do have spines will throw up their hands in disgust and go home. Obama did NOT promise to leave Afghanistan and has in fact promised the exact opposite. He and the Democrats made a bad move by insisting on the ouster of Musharaff. The newly elected 'democrats' in Pakistan are capitulating to Taliban demands.
Neither the DPRK nor Iran ever simply 'simmer'. Either or both will strike at a time of their choosing.
RE:'Regardless, for the Zillionth time, you have a choice between someone who will confront/engage and someone who will capitulate/appease. (yet you know this)'
Yes, I do. I also know that he is of considerably less danger to us than Jimmy Carter ever was and is now. I think that a President Obama will never be anything more than a puppet operated by Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. He will become Nancy's fall guy very shortly after his election.
RE:'Yet you are going to vote for the most rotten one.'
Voting for Harry Reid? Nah. I can't. He's from Nevada. I can't vote for Nancy Pelosi, either. They, by the way, are the two I would most like to see retired.
Re:'At this point the heavy lifting is done in Iraq and Afghanistan still has support. We simply cannot afford to lose either.'
The fate of Iraq is already cast with the Iraqi's making the throw. I agree, we can ill afford to lose Afghanistan.
RE:'At what cost? The death of the USA?'
Again, I think your estimate of American courage is entirely too low. I think you have bought into the news-puke's portrayal of us just a wee bit too much.
RE:'Look, I won’t be here, I live in the red part of the bulls eye but I do not appreciate the woman and children that I see every day being so “blithely“ sacrificed in your bazaaro-world scenario of allowing Americans to be murdered in order to properly “motivate” the survivors.'
Bubba, we lived with this very same risk from 1941 to 1991. The truth is, the very worst the Islamists can do is nothing compared to what the Soviets could have done and threatened to do--at least when it comes to using nukes against us. In some ways we are still fighting that war because at least half the battle was against leftist ideology. Nothing has changed. Remember Nancy Pelosi wearing that scarf over her head? She is just as much an enemy of this country and the ideas it was founded on as Nikita Kruschev was.
I find it far more worrisome that the Democrats aid and abet the infusion of Islam into our society, even going out of the way to encourage its instructions in our school systems in the name of multiculturism. They would not dream of allowing Christian children do what they ENCOURAGE Muslim children to do in our schools, yet you hear damned little about this from the news-pukes or the Goopers. Amadinejad is right about something here. The nukes are not nearly so important to this struggle as religion and ideas.
'Who will stop him?'
A number of corporations for starters'
Ok, to recap. you want to elect obama because you believe he will wreck the economy, lose us the wars and drive the USA in to the ground there by waking up the American public to the evils of socialism. Now you think that the cooperations can stop him? Firstly cooperations are not lawmakers, secondly they can pack up and move to the Bahamas and be done with the BS, thirdly What you are after is the destruction of our economy to make it 'pure capitalist'... Why would you want these 'corperations' to even slow him down?
'Do you really think that they will just sit around and let this bunch run over them?'
They will not have a choice.
'He certainly understands what happens if he annoys the wrong people. '
He is the messiah. He doesn't have to worry about annoying people. You just don't get it. (I wonder if you understand how dangerous this is? Hitler used the same shtick, I wonder if anyone voted for him because they thought he would be a cautionary tale for Germany.)
'. By the way, if there any out there still thinking that his past will catch up with Senator Obama now, had best disabuse themselves.'
His followers do not care if he has broken the law. You still do not seem to understand that this is not about rational examination of his record and qualifications for them. How could it be?
'You forget that the people of this country are and always have been the final check'
Again, you are not getting it. There are many who will elect/reelect him because he is not Bush or because he is black or because he says the things they want to hear. This is not about merits or qualifications. This is about his cult of personality. When he screws up the narrative will be because the neo-cons stopped him or because he wasn't allowed to go far enough or because of racism... Not because of his actions. When he fails it will be someone else's fault, the usual suspects. Look how he has handled all that has been thrown at him! Deny, stall, tell people they do not understand, question their motives for wanting an explanation and when left with no other choice, toss someone under the bus and proceed with business as usual. There haven't been any changes in core beliefs here and certainly not in the direction the campaign is taking. He is continuing on exactly as before and the people are eating it up.
'ow do you think Bubba Jones is going to react when his job disappears? '
Yeah, another great depression is what you are rooting for.. So much for your grand kids. After the last great depression Bubba Jones was rooting for communism. We got the new deal. the only thing that got us out of it was the build up for WW2. This is what you are hoping will save the USA? Breadlines? When I read what you have written I honestly cant comprehend how someone who is as articulate as you are has come to such an incredibly boneheaded conclusion.
'I'm here to tell you, Bubba, that the only way the price of crude is going to go down in the currently climate is if Congress unbends and allows development of resources in US jurisdiction.'
So, wouldn't it be easier and more patriotic to focus your attention on that then wishing for a catastrophe on my country? Oh, I forgot, that would mean work.
'John McCain continues to support this stupidity.'
No he does not. He supports allowing the states to drill. That is an opening. What you are insisting on is all or nothing and you are not going to get 'all'.
'They are NOT being adequately enforced. Mostly because the US will be called big bad greedy assholes,...'
And Obama will do that? Have you seen the atrocity that is the 'Global Poverty Act'? Of course you have, again, I keep forgetting, you want an economic collapse in the USA. If you haven't look it up: 'Global Poverty Act', it just ships billions of American money out of the country via the UN and turns over American sovereignty to people who despise us.
'I know and I remember what happened the last time they did.'
Well this time will be different! We will unconditionally negotiate!
'
Yes, I agree. You and I have agreed on this in the past'
And the oil price shocks will cause a world wide depression along the lines of the 1930s... People literally starving to death in developing countries. People hungry here. But I keep forgetting, that is what you want.
'Invading Iraq made sound strategic sense.'
I was against it, vocally, because I thought it would outlast our attention span. I am getting pretty goddamn sick of being right and ignored.
' As I am sitting here writing this, C-Span is broadcasting testimony before Congress by Iraqi MP's.'
I wonder what the German, Japanese, Philippine, etc 'mp's would have said. Actually no, I do not wonder or care. We have to do what is best for the USA first.
' We are about to be leaving Iraq whether we think it is a good idea or not.'
You got all of that from C-span.
'The Iraqi position tells me three things. '
You got all of that from C-span.
'Do I want to see the dollar to take a bigger hit? No, '
Well yes, yes you do. That will bring about this collapse you are after faster.
'The dollar is done, stick a fork in it. '
Give me yours then.
' As for the cooperation of our alleged allies, I think they are done with us.'
Better just roll over and take it, eh? You sound, are at your core, pretty cowardly I am afraid. There is still leverage that we have with the gulf states. Indeed we provide their security.
'Yes, I agree. They certainly WILL close the Strait of Hormuz.'
World wide depression. (what you are after)
'They will not close it forever,'
It doesn't matter. If free passage cannot be guaranteed without some kind of tribute then investors are not going to be putting their assets through the gulf. The price of oil will go through the roof. Look at our gdp and look at how much oil we consume. There is a direct correlation to the decimal point.
'but just long enough to separate us from what is left of our European and Asiatic allies.'
'We had best hurry that up'
And Obama will somehow do that...
'This is not a problem that the free market can solve. '
Not when government stands in the way as it is. Had we been able too drill wherever we needed to we would not be in this mess. Is that what people are going to be persuaded to believe? Don't bet on it.
'lso, this approach will be of great use to us and everyone else once the Straits of Hormuz are closed--and they will be.'
Our economy is interlocked with world wide economies. When they go down, we will go down.
'He does NOT need nukes to do that job.'
Whatever... I am an American. I have been to Israel and found it to be nice, I liked the people there. Whether or not they are at war with the 'palestinians' is irrelevant to the situation we are discussing. Feeding them to the mullahs is not going to buy one second of peace, it will only wet their appetite.
' AIPAC and the UN are the two best allies they have.'
So you talk about the power to shape public opinion yet you think that Obama and the democrats will somehow be held accountable, even in their first term? Can't you see how good he is? What a brilliant con artist he is? God, how you have underestimated the capacity for people to believe what they want to believe.
'The war was fought on many fronts. At that time the most important one was American public opinion.''
''I have to tell you, you know, it's part of reporting this case, this election, the feeling most people get when they hear Barack Obama's speech. My, I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often.'' -Chris Matthews 'news reporter'
'More in my next post.'
Give me time to catch up.
Here, go read this and tell me if you are not doing the same EXACT thing that they have done. Tell me where a never ending cycle of working for the worst for the USA will lead to...
www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/the_audacity_of_the_democrats.html
we've had liberal presidents before. Outside of Carter, they all bought into containing communism.
Bush, in his bumpkin act, dis something that not even Barack the magic negro can beat: He set the terms for success.
No one who wants the job of President will be able to walk away from the Middle East. You can watch him twist and shout, but he's not going anywhere. He will have to project power to even stay in office. No president, from now on, will be able to retreat as Clinton did.
Nope, he's trapped. His advantage is that he has a constituancy that will ignore anything short of murder to keep him there and they'd probably greenlight that to get his ass in the White House.
'No one who wants the job of President will be able to walk away from the Middle East. '
Watch him. He is as serious as a tumor.
'His advantage is that he has a constituancy that will ignore anything short of murder to keep him there and they'd probably greenlight that to get his ass in the White House.'
And keep him there... Regardless of how far he drives us in into the ground.
Well noharness, my replies got deleted and I am not going to retype them. This has gotten very tedious.
Suffice to say you are acting like a big spoiled child who is throwing a temper tantrum because you are “pissed off”. Oh well.
I would be very happy if you would take your traitorous ass out of the USA and use some other country as your toilet if you can’t get everything that you want. You are no better in your ideas then the very worst of what you proclaim to want destroyed. Indeed, you will be voting for them.
Thanks for helping to make a mess that someone better then yourself is going to have to come along and clean up.
RE:'Here, go read this and tell me if you are not doing the same EXACT thing that they have done. Tell me where a never ending cycle of working for the worst for the USA will lead to...'
Quoting the article:'The opening event setting the stage for Obama's ascension was the contentious 2000 election. When Bush was declared its winner, Democrats fumed that the election had been stolen by the Republicans.'
I argued (with local Republicans) that the wisest thing the Bush Campaign could do was to back off and let Al Gore have it. I thought then, and still think now, that it would have been far better for the GOP to be in a position to complain about how Al Gore had stolen the election. Their reaction to what I said was not too terribly different from stuff I have been taking from you. I knew before I opened my mouth on the subject that I would be espousing 'heresy' and took it all in stride. They were, after all, already aware that I was neither a fan nor a supporter of George Bush. Was I right? I'll let you be the judge.
Again quoting the article:'Though the Democrats and their media shills are responsible for creating that illusion, Bush and the Republicans are to blame for generally ignoring or responding weakly to the Left's relentless assault on America's war-time morale. Instead of using the power of the White House pulpit to broadcast a steady, convincing message on the importance of presenting a unified national front in the face of totalitarian Islam, America is instead often treated to incongruous platitudes like, 'Islam is a religion of peace.' Instead of a forceful, direct calling-out of the Democratic Party, the State Department and CIA on their numerous subversions of Bush policies, those subversions are usually referred to by the White House as 'disagreements.'
It is never a good idea to allow your enemy to run around unopposed in your rear areas. It is an especially bad idea to praise your enemy. Islam is only a religion of peace when it is the dominate religion and all of its dissenters are dead or subjugated as a second class citizen. Women living under Islam are third class citizens.
Quoting the article one last time:'Ideological descendants of Marx and Rousseau now lead the Democratic Party and they have turned it into a disloyal opposition to an increasingly accommodating GOP.'
The accommodation of these sick little leftists MUST STOP. If the only means available to me is to try and make them self-destruct, so be it, but no more being nice and gentlemanly to the bastards because they do NOT deserve that kind of treatment. You do realize that there is one sorry little worm, regularly seen on CNN, that hangs around here, do you not? He refers to people like you and me as 'Right wing thugs.' He stated, on television in real time, that he was willing to do anything to take right wing thugs like you and me down. How about it, Bubba? Are you a right handed wing nut ready to go around breaking windows at night?
So who is doing the most damage, Bubba? Me because I think it a worthwhile risk to try and jar the American public out of its stupor, or John McCain, who would just as soon let them go right on sleeping? The John McCain who has made no effort to rally his party or to improve its morale? Whatever happened to the CO's who would take care of their outfits and where have all the good noncoms gone? It doesn't look to me as though the GOP has either one at the moment. Show me a GOP that isn't lying around like dead jellyfish on a hot beach and I might change my tactics.
Yes, this has been tedious. It's part of that doing-more-than-pulling thing. To help relieve that tedium, I'll just hit the highlights.
First, I will reiterate for what must be the tenth or twelfth time that my goal is NOT the total collapse of the US economy. Nor is it my intention to destroy the United States. You keep mis-charactering my clearly stated intent. All's fair in public debate, I suppose. I will again point out that do not expect us to arrive at 'pure Capitalism', that is just the target. Capitalism is an ideal, not an actual existent. Right now, this country is not even remotely capitalistic. We are living with a mixture of Mercantilism and Socialism. Capitalism has nothing to do with the way we live now-a-days.
I do believe that the Democrats will self-destruct, simply because I cannot see how they can avoid it. They have already overplayed their hand with S3036 and they are not even in full power yet. Let's take a hard look at what will happen after Obama is elected. I know, the best I can offer is reasonable speculation. That is all anyone can do and it is what we ALL do when we think about whether or not we want to vote for a particular candidate.
I think that the first thing that will happen is that Senator Clinton will run amok again on health care. She and Obama are going to clash. The news media, being what it is, will cover that in detail. Do you know what is really strange about the differences between them on health care? Obama's plan is far less expensive and far less coercive than Hillary's. That's right. As bad as Obama' plan is, it is no where nearly as bad as what Hillary would impose upon us. This debate will be acrimonious, prolonged and bewildering. The American public will NOT be impressed. If the Democrats ever do manage to get this load of do-do down signed into law, the general public is going to be even less pleased with it than they have been with the HMO's. Imagine this, Hillary wants to fine you for not participating in her system. How well do you suppose this is going to go down in Texas? Or Oklahoma? Hell, I doubt if it will sit well in Arkansas.
The environment. Barbara Boxer will run amok. This will frighten the bejeebers out of her fellow Democrats because they will see right away that she will be dragging them over the cliff. The Democrats are too stupid to EVER allow the drilling inside US jurisdiction, so the price of oil will go from $140/bbl to something over $200/bbl. Have you thought about what kind fight will break out between Democrats on this issue? It's gonna be truly nasty. You know what? I think that they will be stupid enough to actually turn some of this idiocy into legislation. Bubba Jones and the Soccer Mom's are gonna be real pleased with $8-$10 gas, now ain't they?
Nancy Pelosi hates diesel. She will do everything she can think of to outlaw it everywhere possible. She likes ethanol, which makes me wonder about her sobriety. These two together are a deadly combination. The price of groceries will likely double, perhaps triple. BuBba Jones is going to be real pleased with Barack Obama over this one, isn't he?
Oh, and the truckers are going to be monumentally pleased with the price of diesel rising past $15/gallon. Yeah, this is going to be fun to watch. You think you have bad traffic where you live, folks? Wait till the truckers start shutting down your freeways. Those boys can make your life far more miserable than the bikers in San Francisco can, believe me.
Oh, and you can bet that Maxine Waters is going to demand that the oil companies be nationalized. I have no doubt that Congress will hold hearings over it and will be dragging Oil Company execs in for interviews and investigations, not to mention all the federal auditors who will start mowing oil company carpets. We might not have any operational refineries after six months of that nonsense.
New construction? Fagedda-about-it! Not gonna happen!
Housing? Oh, there's a special treat in store for housing. By the time this bunch is through with housing, Ben Bernanke will find himself stuffing the banks with twice as much digital do-do as he did this last time. End result? Stagflation, just like we had under Jimmy Carter--double digit stagflation.
Before two years of Obama's term is up we will have gas lines six blocks long, women having crying fits at grocery store registers, and riots around Hillary's brand new and wholly uncooperative clinics.
Whose name will be mud? Why, Barack Obama's! The sitting president always gets the blame. Who will win the midterms by a record breaking landslide? I'll give you a hint, it will NOT be the Democrats. The damage they will do to the country will reparable. The damage the Democrats will do to themselves will be next to fatal.
You think that Barack Obama is this unstoppable mesmerizing machine and I'll have to admit, that so long as his handlers can keep in a situation wherein he is fully scripted and he has rehearsed his spiel, he is very compelling. But his handlers are not going to be able to keep him in those kinds of protected circumstances at all times. Obama has a very thing skin and he's vindictive. He has a temper that is markedly quicker than John McCain's. Whenever he is caught in a situation that is not planned out in advance he reverts to type. He 'lawyers up', taking long pauses before answering questions. When is rattled he is subject to making irrational and self-contradictory statements. He has lost his temper and told the press off, even though they have been very easy on him.
This guy is not a killer mesmerizing machine. He ain't gonna be able to pull Bubba and Mary Lou Jone's strings for very long. They are going to start seeing through him shortly after he takes office, this assumes that they do not see through him before then and elect John McCain.
'Quoting the article:''
That is not an answer to the question. Harry Reid et al have have hoped and worked for defeat and disaster for the country in he hope of pinning it on Bush. You want to start the cycle a-new by hoping and working for disaster by working for disaster to pin it on the democrats.
Where does that leave the country when half of it is always working to bring about the worst so it can blame the other half?
Answer that.
'I argued (with local Republicans) that the wisest thing the Bush Campaign could do was to back off and let Al Gore have it. I thought then, and still think now, that it would have been far better for the GOP to be in a position to complain about how Al Gore had stolen the election.'
Gee, I guess you haven't run in to an election that you haven't thought the republicans wouldn't be better off losing in a while. When would it be better to win? Are you after Karl Roves old job? Maybe Patton should have surrendered to the Germans so we could get to victory faster...
'I knew before I opened my mouth on the subject that I would be espousing 'heresy' and took it all in stride'
Not 'heresy', a bad idea.
'Was I right? I'll let you be the judge.'
If you were a supporter of Al gore, then yes, you were right. Pretending to be for 'conservative' values and voting Trotskyite is either disingenuous, insane or stupid. Voting for someone because you think he will wreck the country is traitorous.
'It is never a good idea to allow your enemy to run around unopposed in your rear areas.'
If obama wins then you will technically be the enemy of the USA. Wishing for collapse. Should we lock you up?'
'The accommodation of these sick little leftists MUST STOP.'
Well it won't as long as people vote for them.
'If the only means available to me is to try and make them self-destruct'
Even if it means wrecking the country? Why don't you get off your ass and fight the honest fight? Oh yeah, that would mean getting off your ass.
'You do realize that there is one sorry little worm, regularly seen on CNN, that hangs around here, do you not? '
No.
'He refers to people like you and me'
I am not like you, I want the best for the USA and am not going to try to drag it down under any circumstances. I can also read, and have come to the conclusion that McCain is a good man and will make a fine president.
'He stated, on television in real time, that he was willing to do anything to take right wing thugs like you and me down.'
Who is this that speaks to you through the internet and tv there Noharness?
' Are you a right handed wing nut ready to go around breaking windows at night?'
No. (What the hell good would that do?) I am a well armed crack shot who is going to keep all his damed windows.
'So who is doing the most damage, Bubba? Me because I think it a worthwhile risk to try and jar the American public out of its stupor, or John McCain, who would just as soon let them go right on sleeping? '
YOU. Because you actively wish for the worst to befall the country so you can indulge in some pipe dream about what will happen after the collapse. It is crazy. Additionally, you have completely mischaracterized McCain on just about every issue and you will not allow yourself to be persuaded that you are wrong.
In Effect and temperament you are absolutely no different from Harry Reid, you want to see failure and collapse to get your own way. It is destructive to the country and personally dishonorable, not to mention traitorous.
' The John McCain who has made no effort to rally his party or to improve its morale? '
The campaign has clear problems. Too bad we don't have legions of glassy eyed, drool chinned lemmings throwing their dollar bills at him.
' Show me a GOP that isn't lying around like dead jellyfish on a hot beach and I might change my tactics.'
I would say the dead jellyfish party is right where you belong, since you see so much that is wrong yet all you do do is whine about it. Organize, make phone calls write letters and checks. Draw a line in the sand... That makes a whole lot more sense then voting for someone because you think, correctly, that he will make a mess out of the country.
“First, I will reiterate for what must be the tenth or twelfth time that my goal is NOT the total collapse of the US economy.”
Why not, that would be wonderful to pin on the democrats. Boy oh boy, we would be a 1 party state then wouldn’t we? Those always work out great!
“. Nor is it my intention to destroy the United States.”
Just to deliberately lose us 2 wars against a committed advisory who will see that as a recruiting dream come true. Just to deliberately lose allies that we need and to see other allies wiped off the map,
“You keep mis-charactering my clearly stated intent.”
Your stated intent is to do as much damage to the country as possible and to pin it on the left. Just as it has been the lefts intent to do as much damage to the country and to pin it on the right. Us poor slobs in the middle have to carry you IDIOTS on our backs like tics on a dog whole you do your best to kick the legs out from under us.
“. Right now, this country is not even remotely capitalistic.”
I disagree and would state that “pure capitalism” is not a good target. More capitalistic perhaps, but then again, I m talking to an Obama supporter.
“I do believe that the Democrats will self-destruct, simply because I cannot see how they can avoid it.’
I do to. I also believe they will make a horrific mess and I do not think that producing this horrific mess will get you to your state of “pure capitalism”. After the last horrific mess produced by government intervention, the great depression, we almost went with communism. Fascism is also another alternative.
Your business plan is:
Make a big mess + something happens = Pure capitalism.
“I know, the best I can offer is reasonable speculation.”
It is not reasonable. It is crazy.
“The news media, being what it is, will cover that in detail.”
The mews media is simply devoted to them and the whole idea of international socialism. Even Rupert Murdoch is betting on Obama.
“Yeah, this is going to be fun to watch. You think you have bad traffic where you live, folks? Wait till the truckers start shutting down your freeways”
I don’t think it will be “fun”, I think it will be tragic. I noticed you didn’t mention the cost of losing Iraq and Afghanistan in your little bazaro world scenario.. Will it be “fun” to lose a city?
“Before two years of Obama's term is up we will have gas lines six blocks long, women having crying fits at grocery store registers, and riots around Hillary's brand new and wholly uncooperative clinics.”
I think it won’t happen until the second term but that is what you are counting on and that is why you are voting for Obama.
“Whose name will be mud? Why, Barack Obama's!”
And the United States of America.
“You think that Barack Obama is this unstoppable mesmerizing machine and I'll have to admit, that so long as his handlers can keep in a situation wherein he is fully scripted and he has rehearsed his spiel, he is very compelling. But his handlers are not going to be able to keep him in those kinds of protected circumstances at all times. Obama has a very thing skin and he's vindictive. He has a temper that is markedly quicker than John McCain's. Whenever he is caught in a situation that is not planned out in advance he reverts to type. He 'lawyers up', taking long pauses before answering questions. When is rattled he is subject to making irrational and self-contradictory statements. He has lost his temper and told the press off, even though they have been very easy on him.
“
And you want this in office.
“
This guy is not a killer mesmerizing machine.
The press adores him and people see what they want to see. You are included in that by the way.
“e ain't gonna be able to pull Bubba and Mary Lou Jone's strings for very long.’
Bubba and Mary lou have been replaced or shouted down as racists.
“this assumes that they do not see through him before then and elect John McCain.”
Thanks for all your help.
I think Obama is the best candidate in this presindentiel election compaire to MaCain,in terms of international affairs and other major problem in national policies, such as health care, job opportunities for Americans, and social secuirity as well.
MaCain going to continue with the same policy as W.Bush did it, don't let a big nation as America to continue with the same policy of Bush which has been felt in IRAQ for an other 4 more years. MaCain the forma war prisonner in Vietnam is not a capable person to run this big and powerful nation for another four more years.
RE:'That is not an answer to the question. Harry Reid et al have have hoped and worked for defeat and disaster for the country in he hope of pinning it on Bush. You want to start the cycle a-new by hoping and working for disaster by working for disaster to pin it on the democrats.'
Did you read this before you posted it? Yes, I want Harry Reid and the Democrats to take the blame for their perfidy. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't anyone of good sense want him to own up to the evil he has done? And, by the way, a lot of this must be laid at the feet of George Bush as well. He has always enjoyed going along to get along with the Democrats. Look at where he, AND WE, are now! Ain't it great?
Re:'Where does that leave the country when half of it is always working to bring about the worst so it can blame the other half?'
In a freaking mess, just like it is right now.
Answer that.
RE:'Gee, I guess you haven't run in to an election that you haven't thought the republicans wouldn't be better off losing in a while. When would it be better to win? Are you after Karl Roves old job? Maybe Patton should have surrendered to the Germans so we could get to victory faster... '
I worked my ass off for George Bush's daddy.
RE:'If you were a supporter of Al gore, then yes, you were right. Pretending to be for 'conservative' values and voting Trotskyite is either disingenuous, insane or stupid.'
You, like most people involved in politics, are all tactics and no strategy. Of course I was not for Albert Gore, but I was not about to support someone inclined to go along to get along with Albert Gore's buddies. Look at that has gotten us, Bubba.
Re:'Voting for someone because you think he will wreck the country is traitorous. '
I did not vote for Albert Gore. I did go vote, but that was so that I could vote for the Republicans running for the Congress and Senate.
RE:'If obama wins then you will technically be the enemy of the USA. Wishing for collapse. Should we lock you up?'
Churchill did not warn Coventry, did he? You are wont to claim that I am enjoying this. The answer is no, I am no the least bit enthused about it. On the other hand, the alternative is far worse.
RE:'Well it won't as long as people vote for them.'
Well hallelujah! You are finally starting to see the bigger picture.
RE:'Even if it means wrecking the country? Why don't you get off your ass and fight the honest fight? Oh yeah, that would mean getting off your ass.'
So the time I spend here arguing politics with you and others counts for nothing, right? I'm impressed with that argument. Other than what I post here, what do you know about what I do, hmm?
RE:'I am not like you, I want the best for the USA and am not going to try to drag it down under any circumstances. I can also read, and have come to the conclusion that McCain is a good man and will make a fine president.'
Okay, great. Other than attacking me through all of this, what have you done to actively support John McCain? You think it stops with just sending contributions? Have you been out on the phone banks? Have you been out hanging signs or stuffing envelopes? Why haven't you tried to tell everybody why you think John McCain will be so infinitely superior to Barack Obama? What do YOU think will happen during putative McCain Administration?
RE:'No. (What the hell good would that do?) I am a well armed crack shot who is going to keep all his damed windows.'
Good! You really are my kind of guy.
Re:'YOU. Because you actively wish for the worst to befall the country so you can indulge in some pipe dream about what will happen after the collapse. It is crazy. Additionally, you have completely mischaracterized McCain on just about every issue and you will not allow yourself to be persuaded that you are wrong.'
Beyond mere assertions, you have done nothing to show me where I am wrong.
RE:'In Effect and temperament you are absolutely no different from Harry Reid, you want to see failure and collapse to get your own way. It is destructive to the country and personally dishonorable, not to mention traitorous.'
Show me a way to avoid this catastrophe, Bubba. Tell me how you think John McCain can steer us clear of it. Just saying he will won't make it. Just saying that he is a good man won't cut it. I figure that John McCain is about as good a man as you can expect to find in today's politics. Whoopee-do! It's time to make your pitch, Bubba.
RE:'The campaign has clear problems. Too bad we don't have legions of glassy eyed, drool chinned lemmings throwing their dollar bills at him.'
Enthusiasm matters and you know it! You haven't been out of the military for long enough to have forgotten that. Yes, the campaign has clear problems. It is isolated from the rest of the party and Senator McCain does little to appeal the GOP rank and file. Why?
RE:'I would say the dead jellyfish party is right where you belong, since you see so much that is wrong yet all you do do is whine about it. Organize, make phone calls write letters and checks. Draw a line in the sand... That makes a whole lot more sense then voting for someone because you think, correctly, that he will make a mess out of the country.'
Slapping me around will NOT get your guy elected. Why is the GOP acting like a bunch of puppies with a bad case of kennel cough? What's the matter with 'em? It looks to me as though they have surrendered already--Well, there IS Dana Rohrabacher, but that's about it. The rest of them are a bunch pale little ghosts begging Wolf Blitzer for handouts.
Would you like to know why are not already rid of the Democrats? Wasn't it you that said that what they want to do is oppressive and contrary to human nature? That being true, why is it that they are still around? They are still around because they have two qualities that overwhelm everything the Republicans throw at them. First, they are consistent. In politics, the side that is the most consistent wins. Take a good listen at Obama's speeches. The Democrats message has been consistently Marxist since FDR. They have not changed it one iota. The other quality is that they are persistent. They never go away.
What do the Republicans do? They accommodate the Democrats. They accept Democrat premises and try to lessen the impact of the government acting on them. It is an abominably stupid strategy. Christopher Chantrill writing for the American Thinker asks a good question, Are Conservatives Dead or Resting?
Here's a little snippet from the article he wrote: 'If you look back over the last 30 years, back over the record of conservative reform, there is one thing that stands out. Conservative reform never had a chance unless there was a crisis. The Reaganomics of hard money and low tax rates only got done in the crisis of Carter inflation/recession. The Bush tax cuts only got passed in the tech meltdown. Welfare reform only got passed when Newt Gingrich put a gun to President Clinton's reelection prospects in 1996.'
You want to know what well and truly pisses me off? Newt Gingrich is wallowing around with the Democrats. Go figure.
RE:'Why not, that would be wonderful to pin on the democrats. Boy oh boy, we would be a 1 party state then wouldn’t we? Those always work out great!'
There would be no need to pin anything on the Democrats if Barak Obama was president, now would there? They would be doing it to themselves, wouldn't they? Right in front of their news-puke buddies. Would we end up with one party rule? I seriously doubt it. If on the other hand, John McCain were President, guess who would get pinned with the blame, wouldn't he?
RE:'Just to deliberately lose us 2 wars against a committed advisory who will see that as a recruiting dream come true. Just to deliberately lose allies that we need and to see other allies wiped off the map,'
What allies? The Dutch, the Danes and the Australians? The Brits? You know what is really strange about the Brits? British Conservatives have a greater dislike for us than the Labor Party. Guess who is on his way out--Gordon Brown. The Pakistanis are NOT our allies. We are not going to lose the war.
RE:'Your stated intent is to do as much damage to the country as possible and to pin it on the left.'
NO! I am NOT going to do any damage to this country. The Democrats are. They will damage this country whether John McCain is president or not. He is not inclined to hold the line against the Democrats. His campaign is doing nothing to motivate his rank and file. He is NOT going to have any coattails. The Democrats are going to have full control of both houses of the legislature. Show me how John McCain will ever be anything more than a fall guy for the Democrats.
RE:'Just as it has been the lefts intent to do as much damage to the country and to pin it on the right. Us poor slobs in the middle have to carry you IDIOTS on our backs like tics on a dog while you do your best to kick the legs out from under us.'
Oh, geez how could I have been so slow! You're a Dobbsian Middleman. I should have realized. You know, in some ways you and Lou Dobbs have a point. There was a time when Goopers and Democrats would come together, especially during times of major crisis, but we haven't had that this time, despite George Bush's going along to get along with the Democrats. Oh, and by being in the middle, you just get in the way. Fish or cut bait, Bubba.
“. Right now, this country is not even remotely capitalistic.”
RE:'I disagree and would state that “pure capitalism” is not a good target.'
Clearly you haven't done much reading on the subject. You have bought into the Marxist nonsense about 'dog-eat-dog'. You don't get that under Capitalism. You do get it under Mercantilism. What we have is Mercantilism mixed with Marxism. What is even more alarming, is that we are about to get the worst of both.
Re:'More capitalistic perhaps, but then again, I m talking to an Obama supporter. '
No, I am not an Obama supporter, even though I a WILL vote for him.
Re:'I do to. I also believe they will make a horrific mess and I do not think that producing this horrific mess will get you to your state of “pure capitalism”. '
Do you read ANYTHING I post here or is it that I am using words that are too big for you?
'After the last horrific mess produced by government intervention, the great depression, we almost went with communism. Fascism is also another alternative.'
Fascism is exactly what we already have--at least the first stages of it.
RE:'Your business plan is:
RE:'Make a big mess + something happens = Pure capitalism.'
Nope. Either you are not reading what I am posting or you are bending things to suit your argument. Slow down a minute and look at the following carefully.
Big Mess by Democrats = Democrat Defeat.
RE:'It is not reasonable. It is crazy. '
So you think the Democrats can do what the plan to do, making a huge mess, and that the American people will just go along with them like bunch of sheep. Well, if Americans really nothing better than sheeple, why would you bother to defend them? Why should we make any attempt to save the herd?
RE:'The mews media is simply devoted to them and the whole idea of international socialism. Even Rupert Murdoch is betting on Obama.'
Yeah, and guess what is going to happen to their ad revenue. Can you say, 'fall like a rock'? It already is, by the way.
RE:'I don’t think it will be “fun”, I think it will be tragic.'
I'll bet you don't like watching America's Funniest Home Videos, either. I think they're a hoot.
RE:'I noticed you didn’t mention the cost of losing Iraq and Afghanistan in your little bazaro world scenario.. Will it be “fun” to lose a city? '
No, it would not be fun to lose a city, but then I think that if we were going to lose a city we would have already lost one. We are already losing the entire nation to the socialists because so many people want to be nice, reasonable and in the middle. You harp on defending the country and I do not doubt that you have and would do so again, but all you have been defending the country from is external threats. From me and mine to you and yours, please accept our deepest gratitude for doing that. What you and I disagree on is the level of danger presented by the likes of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. Compromising with them and their Democrat colleagues is dangerous.
RE:'I think it won’t happen until the second term but that is what you are counting on and that is why you are voting for Obama.'
I have no reason to believe that the Democrats will waste that much time. They are already hammering out their legislation as I sit here writing this. I think they will be, forgive me, 'Ready on Arrival'.
RE:'And the United States of America.'
Oh, come on, Bubba. Wake up and get a whiff of the newsprint. Our name is ALREADY mud. The newspukes have seen to that.
RE:'And you want this in office.'
I want an end to his political career. If it is necessary to elect him to effect that end, then so be it. I happen to believe that when he goes down that he will take the careers of a great many other Democrats with him.
RE:'The press adores him and people see what they want to see. You are included in that by the way.'
Bwahahaha! Nice shot. I suspect that Senator Obama would be more than a little peeved to know what I see in him. You see an unstoppable monster. To me he's just another Democrat.
RE:'Bubba and Mary lou have been replaced or shouted down as racists.'
Replaced? Have you told Bubban and Mary Lou about this? They cannot be shouted down when they walk into that voting booth and pull the lever for a straight Republican ticket.
Re:'Thanks for all your help.'
You're quite welcome, Bubba. I DO try.
'Yes, I want Harry Reid and the Democrats to take the blame for their perfidy.'
By giving them more power... makes perfect sense.
'and, by the way, a lot of this must be laid at the feet of George Bush as well.'
For not vetoing the waste from the REPUBLICAN congress?
'He has always enjoyed going along to get along with the Democrats. Look at where he, AND WE, are now! Ain't it great?'
LOL... 'k...
'In a freaking mess, just like it is right now. '
Yes, you want Obama because he will make a mess. Great.
'You, like most people involved in politics, are all tactics and no strategy.'
I think your 'strategy' is self-destructive. It is poisonous to the country. It will continue the cycle of trashing the USA in an effort to blame the other guy and it won't end until there is nothing left.
'Of course I was not for Albert Gore, but I was not about to support someone inclined to go along to get along with Albert Gore's buddies. '
So your brilliant idea was to put the guy in office that you didn't want because the other guy might compromise with the guy that you are putting in office. Right...got it. 'Strategy'..
'Churchill did not warn Coventry, did he?'
Because he didn't want the Germans knowing they were reading their codes. It is hardly the same as voting for Neville Chamberlain because you know that he is going to get the UK invaded.
'You are wont to claim that I am enjoying this. The answer is no, I am no the least bit enthused about it.'
Gee:
'Yeah, this is going to be fun to watch.'
Kind of sounds like you would be enjoying the mess that he will make. 'Riots' because Harry Reid will get blamed...
Here is an idea? Why not work to avert the crisis before it happens? Naaah. That wouldn't be 'strategy'.
'RE:'Well it won't as long as people vote for them.'
Well hallelujah! You are finally starting to see the bigger picture. '
Yet you are going to vote for them. Yes, I see the big picture. Your 'strategy' will end in the destruction of the country as each side tries to out do each other in inflicting as much damage as they can in order to blame the other. Their side will win that little game by the way, hands down.
'So the time I spend here arguing politics with you and others counts for nothing, right?'
Well.. pretty much.
'Other than what I post here, what do you know about what I do, hmm?
I actually hope it is very little at this point.
' Other than attacking me through all of this, what have you done to actively support John McCain? '
Workng on it.
'You think it stops with just sending contributions?'
No, not at all. Trust me.
'Beyond mere assertions, you have done nothing to show me where I am wrong. '
It is just plain common sense. You are entering the race to the bottom. Wishing for the worst to blame the other guy. What you are hoping for is a cycle of making a mess and pointing fingers. They will do the same and feel justified in doing so. Meanwhile the country and the people in it suffer.
'Show me a way to avoid this catastrophe, Bubba.'
Finish out our missions in Iraq and Afghanistan and leave al Qaeda broken and humiliated. Take a firm yet sensible stand against Iran. Control waste and spending to cut our defect and national debt. Take on the teachers unions and end the indoctrination instead of education. Formulate an intelligent national energy plan that will at first reduce the cost of oil and eventually eliminate the need for it. Secure our borders. Rebuild our manufacturing base. Find a solution to the health care issue and manage the rise of China and India... These would be good starts.
The way NOT to do it is to work for collapse in order to play the blame game.
'Whoopee-do! It's time to make your pitch, Bubba. '
I am not a salesman. I can tell you that McCain has a genuine love for the USA and Obama genuinely resents it. The road to hell might be paved with good intentions but I will take good intentions over self serving rhetoric.
'Slapping me around will NOT get your guy elected.'
No, but you have it coming bubba.
'Why is the GOP acting like a bunch of puppies with a bad case of kennel cough? '
Because they have screwed up. These past 7 years have not been what they could have been. You want a 'true rightest'? They wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell at the moment. Your 'strategic soul mates' on the other side of the aisle have done an excellent job on capitalizing on every setback that the country has had and pinned it on the GOP rather then working to fix the problems. The Media has been working overtime to help them. The result is that Bush is seen as the anti-Christ rather then just a par for the course president and this bunch of puppies doesn't want to get too close because they will get tossed out.
'They are still around because they have two qualities that overwhelm everything the Republicans throw at them. '
LOOK:
It is more then that, their message is omnipresent. From school to college to the way products are marketed to television. Watch MTV sometime... It is heard so often that it is accepted as reality. Obama is the culmination of this. A record-less, pandering, all things to all people human lie. All style over substance. If he fails, if it is shown that people can see through it, if they use their heads instead of capitulating to 'popularity' and fad or threats of being labeled a racist for disagreeing it might put a dent in the entire way they push their message. It might send them back to the drawing board. It might put them in disarray. It might get people to take a closer look at what they are being told by MSNBC and George Soros.
If you want to defeat them that is what you are going to have to figure out how to beat. The infrastructure that makes their message commonplace to the point of unquestioning acceptance. That is why I have spent the time here that I have. Trying to figure out how to shake people who are having their accepted beliefs challenged.
If it works and Obama, this cardboard cut out gets in, they will keep at it. Look at the results their strategy is producing. Trashing the country will only leave the country trashed.
' Take a good listen at Obama's speeches.'
Read them, then listen to them. It is amazing what a good orator he is. Better then Reagan.
'The other quality is that they are persistent. They never go away.'
So I guess they will still be around after they make a mess of things then... All that we will have is the mess to clean up.
'There would be no need to pin anything on the Democrats if Barak Obama was president, now would there?'
Watch the blame for the fiascoes that you envision fall on the usual suspects. As you demonstrate, people believe what they want to believe.
'Right in front of their news-puke buddies'
When Bill Clinton was president the were applauding the unemployment rate that they have been painting as catastrophic under bush, No, it doesn't work that way.
'f on the other hand, John McCain were President, guess who would get pinned with the blame, wouldn't he?'
Guess we got to help avoid a mess then instead of working to bring one about.
'What allies? The Dutch, the Danes and the Australians? The Brits? '
The gulf states is what I was refering to.
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