Ex-top commander lashes out at White House over Iraq
US Features
Oct 13, 2007, 7:49 GMT
Older Talkback
The General is absolutely right but he should have said it a long time ago. The USA has lost all credibility the more so by giving its blessing to the murder of countless innocent women and children by its troops and its mercenaries!!!
It's a bit more complicated than that Paul,it is not the USA which is faulty ,but it's current neocon government that lied to it's own population with the help of the MUrdoch FOX network and the usual involved republican thinktanks which only serve as bridge from defense contractors to the state coffers .The american populzation is also victimized and made to pay trillions of dollars to pay the bill.How much is that per capita right now ?Is there any doubt the average Joe will have to pay this ?Tax breaks are for the rich only...
Bush', very old news. You've got to remember, Bush bought his high school diploma.
Time to replace the government with the American Republic. No talk, action!
Not Tonny, it's nothing like that.
Bush one redefined the proper role of the modern military in foreign policy after Johnsons Vietnam debacle: Tell them the political goal and then let them figure out how to accomplish it.
He's doing damage control. He never learned professional brinksmanship.
If he were a better leader and politician, HE would have requested the surge level troops and done what Petraeus did. He would have bucked Rummy, who had no stomoch for this war and wanted to do it on the cheap. He would have held Congress hostage by saying it can't be done with less than 250,000 troops.
That's the problem with careerists: They ALL want a shot, and compromise you and I, just like the careerists in Congress, and the one's in the White House. The dems voted for this war to advance THEIR goals, not ours.
These military careerists kiss Congress's ass and the president's ass then blame them when it doesn't go their way, instead of putting it to them at the get-go.
Now, Petraeus walks in, tells them what he needs and says 'give it to me or send me to Alaska, I don't give a f--k, but make up your minds'.
THAT is how it's done. Put the metaphoric pistol to their heads. Tell them to do it your way or get someone else.
This is another big crock coming from SP4: 'Tell them the political goal and then let them figure out how to accomplish it.'
Political goals are for politicians, not soldiers. Soldiers shoot at things. Your statement is like Walt Disney saying: 'I want a fantasy land,' and then giving a soldier a bag of hot air to build it. And IS that REALLY you, SP4? That post seems to be far too coherent, even though it is still off-base.
Those are, exactly, Colin Powell's words. Now Colin is not my favorite guy, after his little involvement with Scoot Libby's deal, but as a general, he correctly articulated the position(let me dumb it down for you):
Soldiers shoot things BECAUSE politicians TELL them to, Ted. They are, in essence, carrying out the politicians wishes.(unless you are a Kerry democrat, in which case no one really KNOWS what you want!)
The only mistake Gen. Sanchez made was to walk in like their bitch and let these vipers run over his ass. It's a VERY common mistake for careerists like him, who don't correctly understand the military's place in our government.
Ollie North was another. A nice guy, who tried to please others instead of just serve the nation. He just forgot where he was, that's all.
Walt Disney DID very much THAT! He had a vision and OTHERS accomplished it! I know: I was there!
By the way, I have been saying the dems greenlighted this war for their own selfish political reasons ever since I started posting here. Where have you been?
SP4 appears to be one of those people who has been everywhere and done everything. Let us all stand in the light of his benighted wisdom. Let us all bow before this great wiseman. Let us all tell this waste of space to eff-off.
When is the last time in memory, and mine goes back a way, Did you hear so many Generals Cry so much 'Foul'.
These men were hand picked by the administration to lead their war, these were not just rogues.
I for one, as an unknowing, unschooled, Shlep could see this comming before the beginning of 'shock and awe'. When the then comanders begged Rumsfeld for 3 times the troupes.
When 11 of the 13 national inteligence agencies said 'Hussein is not a threat to us unless we go in there'.
These are 'Patriots' that are trying to tell us something, I hope those with ears can hear.
The 'patriots' that led us into this, and derided anyone that objected to the war, can now be Proud of their efforts. The blood of the innocents is on all of us.
Nice to see SP:4 but unfortunately he is an idiot!
'All of this points to the power possessed by a superior personality. On the one hand, such a man will have a view of the real sentiments of the great mass of humanity and therefore cannot be deceived; on the other, he will impress the people so profoundly, by his mere existence and by the impact of his personality, that they will be swayed by him as the grass by the wind.
.
Another letter then I would have lost the Title banner
If I was playing a game of chess I would start pawn to king four.
with me , so far?............Try this.......good luck
WHAT IS THE GLASS BEAD GAME?
Herman Hesse's Nobel Prize Winning Novel,
The Glass Bead Game
lays the foundations for an Artistic/Conceptual Game, which integrates all fields of Human and Cosmic Knowledge through forms of Organic Universal Symbolism, expressed by its players with the Dynamic Fluidity of Music. The Glass Bead Game is, in Reality, an Age Old metaphor for what has been called, the 'Divine Lila' (Play or Game of Life). This metaphor has been expressed by every great Wisdom Tradition known to man, and its players, the Magister Ludi (Masters of the Game), use as their instruments Ancient and Modern modes of Symbolic Wisdom traditionally presented through Sacred Art, Philosophy, Magick and Cosmology. For a more detailed elaboration of our vision of the GBG, see:
THE GLASS BEAD GAME
TO: So you've never heard of the glass bead game
All that you say is true enough. But please remember that it is ALL just a game. I read Hesse back in the '60's and if i recall correctly, the protagonist grew tired of the game, saw it for what it was (a Game),withdrew, and went to live the simple life. The game could also be interpereted as a metaphor on intellectualism. Particularly the shallow intellectualism that i have seen in university professors. They know nothing but the game. They, being IN the game, have no outer view of the game or where it came from or where it leads to. They are caught by the minutia and do not see the big picture. So they think inside the box, not realizing the trap.
@ Lou. True, Lou. But to continue the metaphor, you could include all human activity. Especially the modern world of television and the net.(i won't get into politics) It is all one empty, meaningless game. Take a look at the intellectual 'prowess' of such creatures as SP4. A prime example of the meaninglessness of conditioned human behavior. People still play the game, but they have no awareness of the game, the rules, its' intent, its' meaning. The game has become their life and as a result are dead to the living of life.
All are pawns in the game. Even our leaders are nothing but pawns. The game has taken over. It is a self-sustaining illusion. And most players are are deluded.
The Glass Bead Game, indeed was a metaphor. Hesse was showing the shallow trap that is intellectualism. If you read any of his other works, such as Siddhartha, you would realise that Hesse was a spiritualist, interested in the larger values and mysteries of life. That life is something to be experienced, not shaped, controlled, manipulated to satisfy small materialistic desires. Or to be manipulated by others, to satisfy their illusionary needs. How many people, today, really enjoy the experience of being alive? Not many game-players, I'll bet.
So if I screw up at my job can I blame Bush too?
I guess this General is lying just like the rest of them. Dam General's what do they know, especially the ones that have spend time on the ground in Iraq. They all are wrong and the administration is right??? I doubt it.
Not only the army lashes out at Bush,so does the intelligence sector .A lot of CIA agants were appaled by the lack of honesty and the manipulation of information by the Bush administration .An example is the yellow cake story that everbody knew to be a falsification .Saddam Hussein never bought any uranium in Niger or anywhere else .The CIA knew this to be a blatant lie,and so did Bush and Rumsfeld ,nevertheless they served this lie to Colin Powel and tried to force it to the UN assembly ,much to the dismal of the CIA agents.If George Tennet had not been the apointed BUsh poodle ,the story would have leaked out earlier .It took a courageous ambassador to tell the truth.Of course the fine gentlemen in the White House found nothing better than to out Valerie Plane as a CIA agent for ,a ridiculous gesture .
In fact many information leading to the Iraqi invasion was obtained trough torture and proved afterwards to be completely false .That was of course to be expected .Only the most abject of human people fail to understand that victims of torture tell their 'interogators' whatever they want to hear .In case you fail to understand SP4,that means something different from the truth .It is this kind of confessions that lead to Colin Powell to make a complete fool of himself before the UN assembly .AS soon as he found out how the information was gathered he quit from the BUsh administration .I guess he valued his moral integrity more than his position,a rare example in the Bush administration busy emptying the state coffers.
It always boils down to Democrats against Republicans and neither side will give in or admit maybe the other side is in the right, so how can anything get accomplished one way or the other. Nothing could be more evident regarding this than reading this website - if it weren't so ridiculous, it would almost be funny! No one outside the Middle East will ever understand the complexities of those countries and will continue to screw up big time!
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