US Features
By Tony Czuczka Jul 5, 2007, 19:40 GMT
Bill Clinton's old pardons roil 2008 campaign
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Older Talkback
SP4, again any convictions? I know your side does not need facts to exist, your whole existance is predicated on lies, you lie-lie-lie and then you hope it becomes fact.
When you can show me a conviction by a Judge or jury then you have something constructive to say.
You are trying to make me believe you only accept facts born from courts.
What a child.
Convictions come from facts not supported by evidence, only witnessed testimony, just like, Libby.
Chew on that and, by all means, get back to us Smackie.
SP4's right, Smack. Your rants are just bomb throwing. Those references of Sp's are real, and the testimony IS real. Whitwater WAS real. Baer really wrote that, and while it may be a lie, it's on the record, for everyone to scrutinize. Let's see some of your supersharp facts Smack. Go ahead and impress us.
looks to me that the way you guys fight if you guys where face to face you would kill each other.see the world is nuts and things have no way to go but down...
...debate is healthy. It has served this nation well. If you're the half empty glass, so be it, but the rest of us re forcing improvement.
'I know your side does not need facts to exist, your whole existance is predicated on lies, you lie-lie-lie and then you hope it becomes fact.'
I can not believe you have the audacity to accuse anyone else of lying here when YOU have been shown to be the liar yourself.
Good god, you are too stupid to be ashamed of yourself you dirty little liar.
It is a sad day when people defend the yellow belly coward, and his administration of criminals, by trying to to compare two way different pardons. Yes Clinton pardon criminals, if that makes you feel better, but none of the criminals were protecting the Clinton administration. But poor Libby was set up to take the fall for the current administration, who seemed to feel they have a lot to worry about if Libby talks. I do not care if you are right, or left, you should be very concerned about why Bush pardon Libby? By the way, this bit about Clinton lying under oath, give me a break, he was asked if he ever had sex with Monica? He answered with no, and it would not had matter if he answered yes either, because the question was illegal to ask in the first place. Where does it say in the law, that 2 consenting adults, have to answer those type of questions, except divorce court, or unless someone gets knocked up. What did sex have to do with white water, NOTHING, then why was the question allowed to be asked? If anything Bill is guilty of is cheating on his wife, and that is between him and his wife, and it has nothing to do with running the country. When you really think about it, it is none of our business what people do in their private life, but that changes when they do start affecting others, and that is a big difference between Bush and Clinton administration, and this is not about Bush having sex, it is much more serious...
All of this mindless, useless, inconsequential partisan bickering that falls into about the same low category as the Paris Hilton crap. It ought to be moved over to the entertainment section because it's a non-story that has nothing to do with real news.
Understand? Nothing of importance is addressed by this bullshit.
You are wrong noharness ,I guess you know that .This debate is about politics ,not about Paris Hilton like news .As a matter of fact it is very interesting as it once more demonstrates the tactics used by neocons and republicans to conduct a debate .It shows the way politics are debated in the USA;by smear campaigns,mudslinging and other vile tactics .I guess it remains a very effective tactic when you are afraid to discuss content .
Agaib what else can you use when you are siding with somebody illegaly invading another country after knowing the evidence you gave to justify so was all forged by your own cronies,and you knew about it .Rather than admitting facts you will try to wiggle out by draaging your opponent in the bathtub .Not abnormal,I'd say .
I just read Rupert Murdoch is about to take over the Wall Street Journal,another fine gentleman appreciated by SP4 ,who greatly helped Bush spread his lies regarding Iraq .Where will you read what really goes on in the world ?Is there any free press left in the USA ?My guess only the internet escapes from the conservative strangling grip .But they will eventually find a way to control that medium too,soon.
You are wrong noharness ,I guess you know that .This debate is about politics ,not about Paris Hilton like news .As a matter of fact it is very interesting as it once more demonstrates the tactics used by neocons and republicans to conduct a debate .It shows the way politics are debated in the USA;by smear campaigns,mudslinging and other vile tactics .I guess it remains a very effective tactic when you are afraid to discuss content .
Agaib what else can you use when you are siding with somebody illegaly invading another country after knowing the evidence you gave to justify so was all forged by your own cronies,and you knew about it .Rather than admitting facts you will try to wiggle out by draaging your opponent in the bathtub .Not abnormal,I'd say .
I just read Rupert Murdoch is about to take over the Wall Street Journal,another fine gentleman appreciated by SP4 ,who greatly helped Bush spread his lies regarding Iraq .Where will you read what really goes on in the world ?Is there any free press left in the USA ?My guess only the internet escapes from the conservative strangling grip .But they will eventually find a way to control that medium too,soon.
'This president, who by the way didn't even get elected in the first place,'
Yeah that's the bottom line right there.
One of the true beauties in the world is how so many people snapped after losing the 2000 election.
RE:'You are wrong noharness ,I guess you know that .'
Actually, Tonny, I KNOW I am right. Once again, you are demonstrating your ignorance of how politics works in the US.
RE:'This debate is about politics ,not about Paris Hilton like news.'
Okay, I'll give you a half-point for this one. It's Paris Hilton like politics.
RE:'As a matter of fact it is very interesting as it once more demonstrates the tactics used by neocons and republicans to conduct a debate.'
Oh, give me a break. It's how politics to often done by BOTH sides, if not ALL sides, including the Libertarians, Socialists, Communists and even the Rational Anarchists. There isn't anything interesting about it. It is a COMPLETE waste of time, like watching a goddamned soap opera.
RE:'It shows the way politics are debated in the USA;by smear campaigns,mudslinging and other vile tactics. I guess it remains a very effective tactic when you are afraid to discuss content.'
Wait a minute. I'll discuss content with you whenever you are ready and I know that you KNOW that I will. The ad hominem is YOUR favorite tactic.
RE:'Agaib what else can you use when you are siding with somebody illegaly invading another country after knowing the evidence you gave to justify so was all forged by your own cronies,and you knew about it .'
Here you are assuming facts not in evidence. I have two excellent sources that show these claims to be both bogus and politically motivated.
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-823814647184745554&q=%22al+gore%22+ iraq&total=141&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6916812079755110706&hl=en
I'll bet you never listened to Doctor Zawahiri, did you, Tonny? I think it is well past time that you did.
RE:'Rather than admitting facts you will try to wiggle out by draaging your opponent in the bathtub .'
Huh? Why would I drag Hillary into the bathtub?
RE:'Not abnormal,I'd say .'
Yeah, well, you say lots of stuff.
RE:'I just read Rupert Murdoch is about to take over the Wall Street Journal,another fine gentleman appreciated by SP4 ,who greatly helped Bush spread his lies regarding Iraq .'
Rupert Murdoch is in the business of helping exactly one person--Rupert Murdoch. Anyone who spends a few minutes watching Fox News understands that instantly.
RE:'Where will you read what really goes on in the world ?Is there any free press left in the USA ?My guess only the internet escapes from the conservative strangling grip .But they will eventually find a way to control that medium too,soon.'
Both 'conservative' and 'liberal' are relative terms, Tonny. They are so relative any more that both terms are nearly meaningless unless some benchmark is given for the reader to gauge the biases. I struggle mightily to find what I can and I surf into the oddest corners of the internet on a daily basis. I will agree with you that biases are hard to weed out, particularly individual biases. This job is even more difficult when you start trying to analyze what you find on the internet.
In truth, this is a situation where the full spectrum of the news media should be heaping scorn on both sets of politicians and pointing out that it is a trumped up tempest in a teapot. Think about it. What does it take to get a Presidential pardon? There are only two ways to acquire one. The least common one is when there is huge outpouring of public sympathy for the accused. The more common, and still damnably difficult to acquire is for the accused to have enough political pull to suck a golf ball up a half-inch water hose.
Anyone with any sense knows and understands this, but our less-than-objective news media plays it up to suit their own interests. Rather than labeling this nonsense for what it is, they play it up for something of monumental importance when it is nothing more than a lot of political drumbeating by both sides. This is a situation in which both political parties should be held up for shame and ridicule, but the news media deals in partial truths so that they can sell more ad space.
The Libnaizi rambling, kitchen sinking everything from Bush, to Murdoch demonstrates the weakness of the left:
They are afraid of their own shadow. They hate everything except their own narrow view. They are the bigots of the 21st century, attacking everything from religion to the weather.
'we have everything to fear including fear itself'.
They are so frightened, they shiver constantly. Every election will end the world if they do not gain power. They have the majority in Congress but are cowed by a president with a 29% approval rating. He says 'Boo' and they crap their pants.
And thay want to lead. Please, get started soon, would you?
Faced with, specific, meaningful facts for discourse, the libnaiz launches into a rambling diatribe of anti-neocon (they've never met one) drivel. it rambles on in a koolaid orgy, sating their lust for the smoking gun of a Nixonesque ending to their fantasies. Flagellating themselves in their mom's basemants, with their tinfoil hats, they delude themselves into hoping for a leader, melting at the thought of Hillary, the best they've been able to produce, taking the reigns of power. How pathetic is that?
The article was about Clintons pardons. They were terrible, for money (Rich) and they happened. He deserves every bit of criticism for them. Libby saw Clintons dishonestly and bought Rich his pardon. He read Clinton(s) correctly. He got what he KNEW he could get. After all, if there was one thing Libby knew, it was how predictable slick willy was, and, face it, slick Willy delivered.
And who happens to be ranked as probably the least intelligent of our Presidents - a grinning puppet who is an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth - a President who soon will have NO approval rating? I agree that if Hillary or Obama wins the nomination, a Republican will again be President
This country will never allow a woman or black to hold the office regardless of what so many say, thanks to the 'good old boy' mentality of the U.S.
When the conservatives have to defend the indefensible, they always defer the 'But Clinton!' line - as if two wrongs make a right in the first place. The notion that convervatives aren't moral relativists is obviously completely false.
I know that you guys defending Bush on this board belong to the lunatic fringe - with Bush's dismal 26% approval rating and all (according to Newsweek). In contrast, Bill Clinton had a 65% approval rating when he left office - one of the highest in history.
The difference between the Bush pardon and the Clinton pardon is that Bush pardoned Libby to cover up the crimes of his own administration.
Bush has been protected by the Republican congress for the last 6 years. Now that the Dems have congress, congress is finally starting to peform it's duty of congressional oversight. Bush can pardon, can try to extend executive priviledge to everyone in his administration, Cheny can claim that his office is not part of the executive branch. These guys are some of the biggest crooks in history and will face justice in time.
Oversight is good. You want to have hearings on Libby? Go ahead, right next to the hearings on Sandy Berg(l)ar.
Bush, gets up in the morning knowing, full well, that you and the rest of the libnazis are such cowards that he still rules with a 29% approval rating. Go check Congresses rating, and compare. This is really not such a bad thing, because it forces them to compromise. Having said that, go check and see who are the one's still getting results: The Republicans.
As for his supposed lack of intelligence, consider the brain trust he's beat into office. Gore, Kerry and Richards, sit dumbfounded in their living rooms, wondering how it happened.
I think Hillary was the one who pushed Bill to pardon all those drug dealers, including her own relatives. Bill was just a pawn of Hillary and has been from the start
Get real!!
I wonder how long it will be before Bill gets caught with another woman?
..hasn't it? 15 years ago Hillary's private machine would be able to gag a liberal press. To some degree, the old networks and libnaiz papers do exactly that.
Now, however, you are going to see artilces like this one. Not very pretty, especially if you're dirty from your toes up.
This kind of article would have never been able to be published in any media with any high circulation. Now, with this technology, we can splash it all over the world. Plus, there's always Fox...
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