US Features
By Chris Cermak May 23, 2007, 17:57 GMT
Muslims in the US - assimilated but apprehensive
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Older Talkback
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Chris Cermak tried to put the happiest face on an alarming survey:
Nearly Three in Ten U.S. Muslims have favorable views/no opinion of al Qaeda.
One in four younger U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances.
13 percent of U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can be justified. That sentiment is strongest among those younger than 30. Two percent of them say it can often be justified, 13 percent say sometimes and 11 percent say rarely.
'It is a hair-raising number,' said Radwan Masmoudi, president of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, which promotes the compatibility of Islam with democracy.
Muslims surely has integrated into the US way of life.
The problem is there is always a threat from them.
The threat is the possibility and numbers of sleepers within the muslim society.
The US still has a worry.
Pew Poll:
'Only one in four consider the US struggle against terrorism a sincere attempt to curtail international terror. Only 40 percent said they believe Arab men carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.'
'Forty-seven percent said they consider themselves Muslim first, rather than American.'
'1 in 4 young Muslims backs suicide bombings, Poll finds those under 30 believe such attacks sometimes justified'
'Only 40 per cent of Muslims said they believed an Arab group was responsible for the September 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington...' !!!
Look to Europe for what to expect here if immigration is not brought under control. This is from Robert Spencer:
Muhammad himself said that 'I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)' (Bukhari, 4, 52, 220). The Koran, too, repeatedly calls for the use of this tactics, such as in verse 8, 12: 'When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.'
Andrew Bostom, who has studied the history of more than one thousand years of Jihad that took place on three continents, says that 'terrorism was often a prelude to conquest.' Terrorism is psychological warfare, to make the non-Muslims scared of Muslims, soften their resistance and prevent them from mounting a real defense of their lands when Muslims later wage a full-scale war to colonize and subdue them. Physical attacks such as the terror bombings in Madrid or London, but also the great frenzy whipped up over the rather innocent cartoons of Muhammad in Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, should all be viewed in this light.
According to scholar Bassam Tibi, 'at its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity. Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world. 'We have sent you forth to all mankind' (Q. 34:28). If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da'wa) can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them. In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the imposed poll tax, jizya.
This subjugation of non-Muslims to religious apartheid and second class citizenship in their own country is part and parcel of sharia, Islamic law. And this option is only available to Christians and Jews, not Hindus, Buddhists or others, who have only the choice between embracing Islam or death. Muslims feel 'oppressed' when they can't fully practice their religious laws in the West. But since these laws ultimately require the subjugation of non-Muslims, 'freedom of religion' for Muslims essentially means the freedom to make others unfree.
How can we judge the facts if we have nothing to compare them to?
I don't know what to make of the 'Pew Research Center Poll' survey that claims one in four young muslims sympathize with suicide bombers. What does the general population think? The results, I'm sure, would surprise many. For one, I sympathize with them, suicide bombers, on some grounds and I'm a young catholic man with no ties whatsoever to the middle east.
If I shared similar living conditions, therefore with nothing to loose, I would contemplate killing myself in hopes of creating a better future for my children. After all, I would have nothing to loose.
'For one, I sympathize with them, suicide bombers, on some grounds and I'm a young catholic man with no ties whatsoever to the middle east. '
So you sympathize with those who go into market places or schools or other public places and blow themselves up on the instructions of others. Killing people at random. Completely innocent people at random. Not a very good 'catholic' and certainly not a 'man' Antoine...
'If I shared similar living conditions, therefore with nothing to loose, I would contemplate killing myself in hopes of creating a better future for my children.'
Gee, blowing yourself to pieces on a commuter bus is a much better solution for yourself and your children... Unlike getting away from the violence, working on a career and providing for their future... Naah, blowing yourself to bits is the obviously the most credible path to success.
'After all, I would have nothing to loose.'
If you consider your life or your children's father 'nothing', sadly, in your case you might be right. Someone so lacking in common sense isn't going to make a positive contribution to their lives or society in general.
Wednesday, May 23, 2007
Re: That Poll [Victor Davis Hanson]
I think someone should make it clear to the Muslim-American community that despite all the spin following the disturbing Pew Poll, most Americans are appalled at the findings for a variety of unspoken reasons.
The findings reflect a successful minority, at income and educational levels indistinguishable from the American majority—despite 40% arriving since 1990.
Yet, one in four young adult Muslims supports the idea of suicide bombing to 'defend Islam' and only four in ten think Arabs had anything to do with the 9/11 suicide bombing.
Despite explanations from academics and religious figures—youth sound off, war is increasingly acceptable to Americans, Black Muslims may be a different subset of the polled, etc—one could interpret this as very bad news: the US just recently welcomed in tens of thousands of Muslims from the failed states of the Middle East, offering them an opportunity for a vastly different life, which apparently they embraced with open arms. And the views of some of that community to the most devastating attack on American shores in its history apparently include that 25% of its youth approve of suicide tactics, and only 40% on the entire community accept that Arabs carried out the mass murder.
Polls are unreliable. But one cannot praise them on the one hand for showing real signs of Muslim success, and then not be more candid that well over 1 million Muslims here don't believe Arabs were involved in destroying the World Trade Center, and several hundred thousand apparently approve in theory of the generic tactic of suicide bombing.
Yet for any to confess that reality, or to worry that the 25% number might explain oddities like those arrested in the Fort Dix conspiracy, is usually to be found guilty of 'Islamophobia' or some such illiberal prejudice by CAIR.
Why such disturbing news from such a successful minority? No doubt the globalized hatred flowing on television from the Middle East, and on the Internet from the Islamists.
But there is also a sense that there are no social or cultural consequences to expressing such radicalism. And why should there be?
At a time of war, our senators compare our troops to Nazis or claim they are no different from Saddam's. Conspiracy theory about 9/11 is embraced by a large minority in the Democratic party, and dreams of shooting the President are the topics of novels and docu-dramas. That lends a climate or reassurance to go one step further and approve of blowing someone else to 'defend' Islam.
But why worry about 25% of Muslim youth in America when you can go to the moronic 'View' and hear Rosie et al defend jihadism through moral equivalence and argue that because someone blows himself up he must de facto have some sort of legitimate reason (akin to Nathan Bedford Forrest's logic that superior Confederate zeal was proof of the inherent righteousness of being left alone to hold slaves.)
That's why the 'View' is so valuable, because it is our window on the moronic affluent American mindset, the perfect result of abject ignorance colliding with unchecked affluence.
those 1 in 4 lowlife muslims should go into a desert and practice suicide bombings...using real bombs.....oh and bring a few friends that share the same morbid belief.
>Pollsters interviewed 1,050 Muslims living in the US.
That's too small a pool. you will need atleast 10 times more number of people being interviewed to get an idea of the 'trend'
Amazing only 5% of those sampled think strapping on a couple of sticks of dynamite and blowing up innocents is just fine. Add to that the margin of error of some 5% and you get 10$ of an estimated 2,500,000 muslims would love to blow us up.
Don't worry about it says Harry Reid - besides that is only 250,000 potential loose cannonballs running around the country.
Then, I hear the ACLU and CAIR telling me about Freedom of Religion - Seems to me freedom from Jihadist terrorists trumps the Freedom of Religion and we should think about export licenses.
Life is so much better in Gaza anyway. they will have their own churches, can blow up neighbors, can fake the news for CNN and sit back and talk some dummy into blowing themselves up for Allah.
Notice the leaders like Osama or Omar never blow themselves up? I wonder why that is?
Pretty sick!
I'm not worried at all about home-grown Muslims carrying out suicide attacks. They may make one attack by one group of home grown Muslims before the non-African American Muslim population is reduced to harmless numbers. I know it is something we Americans like to ignore, but when it comes to blind racism when have a history of it. Look at the Zoot Suit Riots, the interment of Japanese Americans during WWII, segregation of African Americans for four generations after slavery ended, Operation Wetback that ended the Bracero program, and the continued subjugation of Native Americans.
If non-African American Muslims carry out any kind of attack in the United States you will see an unimaginable wrath on Muslims in this country. The poll shows Muslims in this country realize it. If they don't control their own community non-Muslim Americans will do it for them in an unimaginably violent fashion.
Ah - so that's why you own all those guns
The thinking and religious beliefs of the people of the entire Middle Eastern countries are much too complicated for the common individual in the U.S. to begin to understand....much less know how to deal with them......!
All I can say to that is ROFL--also John has 4 letters
To use a thousand respondents to judge a community of millions is ridiculous to say the least.. to say 1 in 4 of under 30s supports the idea of suicide bombing against innocent civilians is an exaggeration.
as an american and a muslim i dont know of any body with that kind of few..
the word islam means peace..there is no room for violence and intolerance..ofcourse there is always bound to be a few radicals here and there but that is not confined to islam only each religion has its own shares of those fanatics.
'To use a thousand respondents to judge a community of millions is ridiculous to say the least.. '
No, it is an accurate statistical sample.
'the word islam means peace.'
That is a lie. The word Islam means 'Submission', There in lies the problem. We will not submit.
'.there is no room for violence and intolerance.'
That is a lie, these are quotes from your Koran:
Qur'an:9:5 'Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.'
Qur'an:9:29 'Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.'
Qur'an:9:88 'The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause.'
Qur'an:9:14 'Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.'
Qur'an:9:38 'Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.'
Qur'an:9:123 'Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.'
Qur'an 5:51 'Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.'
Qur'an 9:29 'Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.' [Another translation says:] 'pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.'
Qur'an 5:17 '...Say (Muhammad): ‘Who then has the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary, his mother, and everyone else on earth?'
Qur'an 5:35 'Believers, fear Allah and seek the way to approach Him, striving hard, fighting Jihad with all your might in His Cause that you may be successful. As for the disbelievers [previously defined as Christians], if they had everything on earth, two times over, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Doom, it would never be accepted from them. Theirs will be a painful torment. They will desire to get out of the fire, but they shall not be released from it. They shall have an everlasting torture.'
Qur'an 5:49 'And this (He commands): Judge between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their [Christian] desires, but beware of them lest they beguile you, seducing you away from any of that which Allah hath sent down to you. And if they turn you away [from being Muslims], be assured that for their crime it is Allah's purpose to smite them. Truly most men are rebellious.'
Qur'an 5:73 'They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: ‘God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them - the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom.'
Qur'an 5:77 'Say (Muhammad): ‘People of the Book, do not overstep the bounds in your religion, or follow the people who erred and led many astray. Cursed are the unbelievers among the Children of Israel by David and Jesus.... They do vile things, allying themselves with the infidels so that Allah's indignation is upon them and in torment they will suffer for all eternity.' [Another translation reads:] 'Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.'
Qur'an 5:80 'You see many of them allying themselves with the unbelieving infidels. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.'
Qur'an 5:82 'You will find the Jews and disbelievers [defined as Christians in 5:73] the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims.'
Qur'an 5:117 'I only said what You (Allah) commanded me to say: Worship Allah, my lord and your Lord. I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them but you took me up. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world.)'.
'ofcourse there is always bound to be a few radicals here and there '
Is it Just a few? There have been 8408 deadly attacks since 9/11. No, the problem is much bigger then just 'a few'. 'Here and there'? There have been islamist attacks with death resulting in India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Kabardino-Balkaria and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Argentina and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and elsewhere....
'that is not confined to islam only each religion has its own shares of those fanatics.'
When is the last time you heard of a Presbyterian flying an aircraft full of people into a building full of people? When is the last time you heard of a Buddhist filling up a school gym full of children and setting off bombs inside? When is the last time you heard of a Mormon sawing someone's head off and putting the video of their last horrible moments on the internet?
'as an american and a muslim i dont know of any body with that kind of few..'
Maybe you don't maybe you do. American is capitalized by the way, as a sign of respect for this culture that you live in.
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