Mike in TexasNov 15th, 2008 - 20:42:54

I just don't understand the Gaza situation! Israel gave up Gaza to give Palestinians peace. In response, Hamas refuses to accept the existance of Israel and just want to have truces and fire rockets. They know this won't work, but is their way to gain time. A simple fact is Israel was there three thousand years before the Muslim religion was thought of. Judea and Sumaria were always Israel, but Israel would give them a State as long as they remain peaceful and recognize Israel. The real issue here is the Arabs cannot and will not ever get along with any non Muslim neighbors. I believe Israel should level a Gaza house for every rocket fired. This, they might understand.

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new_york_lonerNov 15th, 2008 - 23:05:20

With all due respect, Mike in Texas, you have imbibed way too much of that, Made-in-Israel, Kosher Kool-Aid.

Since when is the United States of America in the business of restoring ancient theocracies?

The answer: Since May 15, 1948. That's the day that the Jewish colonists in Palestine celebrate the birth of their faith-based, race-based, nation-state. For the Arabs of Palestine, that day is known as Al Naqba - the Disaster.

The Arabs were not the perpetrators of the Holocaust, but the Arabs were forced off their lands in order to compensate the Jewish victims who had survived the Nazi death camps. Two 'wrongs' do not make a 'right'.

The Gazans have been living as hapless refugees for sixty years now; their despair spawns the 'terror'. These people need and deserve just compensation for their losses and third-party nations could a whole lot more to help with the resettlement of these stateless survivors.

As for any 3,000 year old Biblical claim to the 'Holy Land', that is not only irrelevant, that claim has long since expired. The statute of limitations on land claims is very short, just ask any Native American 'Indian'.

I have read the Old Testament accounts that chronicled the saga of how God's Chosen People, the Israelites, built their kingdom on land that they had seized by force of arms. If Israel and its defenders are using the Bible as evidentiary material, then we must conclude that the Israeli claim to the land was never legitimate.

The Biblical accounts are quite graphic, after the Israelites defeated the enemy armies, the surviving enemy men were slaughtered, virgin girls and young boys were spared and used as slaves. Read your Bible, it contains all the gory details of how the ancient Jews stole the land and enslaved or killed the former landowners.

The ancient Israelites believed that their ethnic cleansing activities were Divinely sanctioned; today’s Zionists also believe that they are acting with Divine sanction.

Mike, my fellow American, de facto Israeli agents have infiltrated the US federal government and co-opted the major US political parties. AIPAC-approved Israel-firsters are formulating US policy; doesn't that alarm you?

Last but not least, I must point out that the fourth estate, the US mainstream media, is absolutely pro-Israel.

Ironically, one must read the Israeli newspapers to get a glimpse of the harsh realities for Arabs in Palestine today. The Israelis actually brag about their inhumanity towards their Semitic cousins - the collective punishments, the IDF's assassinations, Jewish settler violence against Arabs etc. The Israelis report the incidents, but spin the story to their liking. And the Israeli posters on the online discussion boards clearly brag about their anti-Arab racism and their belief in Jewish supremacy and Zionist apartheid – it’s all very revealing.

There it is, Mike, the un-varnished and ugly truth. Can you handle it?

My honest advice: Don't drink the Kosher Kool-Aid. Read the Israeli papers and check out their discussion boards. Question authority.

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Mike in TexasNov 15th, 2008 - 23:42:31

O.K. Loner(that suits you as I see it. The Jews have never given up the Land Of Israel. They were occupied by the Romans then the Turks then the British then Jordan.. Your History is misguided and erroneus. Before the 48 war, Arabs were told to leave and go to Jordan (same as the 67 war.)Israel has NEVER been Arab land. They tried to live with Arabs, but were never allowed to visit their sacred places(as the Western Wall) As I said before, Arabs cannot live with their neighbors-tell me, can anyone other than Arab own Arab land?? Ha! THIS is history. The UNITED NATIONS declared Israel a state in 48. This is why America will defend it as a member and a democracy.

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Forget historical polemics ....Nov 16th, 2008 - 09:22:34

Peace is not on their agenda.
Islam wants war with the west - not full frontal war that it would lose but throat-slitting war of attrition in the shadows. That is a cornerstone of Islamic 'culture'.

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Collective punishments ?Nov 16th, 2008 - 09:25:33

Doesn't that include continuous mortar-bombing and rocketing of Israeli civil populations ? Or is it only Collective punishment when Palestinians are on the end of it ?

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new_york_lonerNov 16th, 2008 - 16:00:36

Mike, you need to step away from the AIPAC-sponsored, Kool-aid fountain; have a hot cup of American Joe.

Your knowledge of ME history, with all due respect, seems to be somewhat limited and clearly biased towards Zionism. It's not your fault, millions of dollars are spent on maintaining a pro-Israel propaganda campaign here in the US.

Like most Americans, you seem to believe the official myths that underpin the US/Israel 'special relationship'. Please, Google my username, visit my blog and we can discuss this in detail.


I tried to provide the URL to a site that provided the following snippet, but I was informed that links are not allowed here, (Spamophobia). The source is mideastweb.org. Here's the pertinent data:


'During the seventh century (A.D. 600's), Muslim Arab armies moved north from Arabia to conquer most of the Middle East, including Palestine. Jerusalem was conquered about 638 by the Caliph Umar (Omar) who gave his protection to its inhabitants. Muslim powers controlled the region until the early 1900's. The rulers allowed Christians and Jews to keep their religions. However, most of the local population gradually accepted Islam and the Arab-Islamic culture of their rulers. Jerusalem (Al-Quds) became holy to Muslims as the site where, according to tradition, Muhammad ascended to heaven after a miraculous overnight ride from Mecca on his horse Al-Buraq. The al-Aqsa mosque was built on the site generally regarded as the area of the Jewish temples.'

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Mark from Georgia: Response to NY lonerNov 24th, 2008 - 23:51:47

Sorry New York loner but your facts are simply wrong in so many areas it's hard to know how to respond.

With regards to the Dome of the Rock portion of your remarks I'll say this. It was never really important to the Arabs/Muslims until 1936 when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem declared it. The imaginary trip by Muhammad to Jerusalem had been debated by Islamic scholars for a thousand years. First it is never mentioned...ever... in the Koran nor is Jerusalem. Since this was dream Muhammad had...that he went a distant Mosque and ascended to heaven... couldn't have happened in Jerusalem since there Was No Mosque at that location during the time he lived! In fact the first Mosque wasn't built at that location until 6 years after he died! So he couldn't have traveled to a Mosque that wasn't there. Medina is where many other Islamic scholars believed is where he traveled in his dream.

Grand Mufti was trying to get rid of the Jews so he aligned himself with Hitler and formed his own SS Unit but he still needed something to unite the badly divided Muslims of the surrounding area who were to busy fighting each other because family or tribal feuds. So he altered a scholarly Islamic debate to unite the Muslims and declared a winner so to speak as a propaganda tool to attack the Jewish people. The rest of your arguments are filled with similar flaws there just to much to cover here.

BTW how are you doing its been a while.

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