Reports: US mulling 20-billion-dollar arms sales to Saudis (Roundup)
Middle East News
Jul 28, 2007, 19:59 GMT
And Also
Similar articles
- US lawmakers seek to block arms deal with Saudis
- US planning 20-billion-dollar arms package for Saudi Arabia: report
Latest Headlines in Middle East
- 1. Israel says it foiled major attack after infiltrator chased off
- 2. Abbas says Netanyahu chose "settlement, not peace"
- 3. Lebanon's new government agrees to let Hezbollah keep arms
- 4. Pressure mounts on Iran at ElBaradei's final IAEA board (Roundup)
- 5. Pressure mounts on Iran at nuclear watchdog meeting 5,6 (2nd Lead)
Older Talkback
page: 1
What is the administration thinking about selling our latest
technology to Islamic countries especially the Saudis. Weren't most of
9/11 terrorists from Saudi Arabia. What makes the idiots in Washington think
the governments of Egypt and Saudi Arabia are going to be able to stay forever stable and pro-US. You think Israel is going to stand around
and do nothing. What a prescription for another major war. I know,
the US arms manufacturers need some business, stupid me.
my personal opinion been USA the controlling part in the middle-east, and having Sirya and Iran battalling in a distance against us, they may use that intelligence against USA and Israel, we have to be very carefull, thanks.
Laser guided munitions are 30 years old. We've been selling tech to the Saudi's for the last 27 years. It helped them prevent Iran and Iraq from successfully attacking them. Also, 20 billion just doesn't take you that far in the field of advanced weaponry.
I don't know where you folks get your info but the writer of this article needs to have her pay check stopped. She's overpaid!
you can't trust any Mulsim...and you can bet that soon Israel will have no choice but to nuke every scum Muslim Country in the area...then all the oil will be contaminated and that will be good, because then it won't be an issue and everyone in the world will then suffer...because of the stupid trust put into Muslims.
Muslims rape their own daughters..and if she's hurt to bad..they turn on the family pet....so how could anyone even think of trusting such PIGs
Every news headline since 9/11 screams out at the world to Disarm Islam. It should be a international crime to sell any muslim anywhere bombs, bullets,missles with an automatic 10 year in some Arab prison.
The U.S. is trying to buy the support of the Sunni states that we have oil relationships with, and the monarchies ruling those same countries have been nervous about their own radicals. Why the Saudis continue to put up with the Wahhabi fundamentalists, about as rigid as the Taliban, is beyond me. I expect this exerts some pressure on the Saudi royals to crack down, in return for the weapons.
It also provides a nice income stream for U.S. weapons makers, as those countries were essentially free to cut deals elsewhere.
observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2137051,00.html
(important excerpts)
'The main thrust of the deal is the supply of advanced American weapons to long-term Arab allies in the Gulf. They include Saudi and five other Gulf states: the UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and Oman. All those countries have been jittery over the growing power of Iran and the possibility that Tehran is seeking to build a nuclear bomb. The supply of American arms to the countries not only gives them greater military power to counter Iran's but also cements them further as American allies.
In fact, so great is the White House's fear over Iran's intentions that the deal appears to ride roughshod over other American strategic concerns - such as Israeli fears over arming Arab countries and concern that Saudi Arabia has been supporting Sunni militants in Iraq. A senior Pentagon official said the deals were being made 'to deal with what has been a changing strategic threat from Iran and other forces'.
The deal raises various strategic questions for America. The first is how to placate traditional allies Israel and Egypt, both of which have their own concerns about arming Gulf states. The salve to those concerns appears to be to give them fresh military aid packages of their own. Israel, according to the New York Times, is going to get a $30.5bn package over the next 10 years. That figure is much higher than had originally been planned. Egypt too will get a new 10-year deal, worth an estimated $13bn.
However, the huge flood of arms into the region is likely to cause serious concerns that Washington is supporting an arms race by sending hi-tech weapons to the rivals of Iran. Such a move will likely undermine diplomatic efforts in the region and spur Tehran even further in its quest for greater military power and the development of its nuclear programme. At the same time, others will criticise the White House for sending weapons to a region whose governments could easily collapse and thus leave American hardware in the hands of Islamic militants.
The flow of arms to Saudi Arabia is of particular concern. Not only are some Saudi factions suspected of being supporters of Sunni insurgents in neighbouring Iraq, there is also a fear that the Saudi royal family could one day fall prey to an Islamist revolution.
If that happens, the new weapons could end up being used by radicals against Western interests. Israeli officials and their supporters in Washington are reportedly lobbying against the Gulf deal but they have been overruled by an administration that has made countering Iranian interests its highest priority.'
-----
(Israel originally objected, and then was included - it gives Bush a reason to let them rebuilds weapons stocks consumed, and for the U.S. to supply them. That also lines up the pro-Israel people in Congress who look for such benefits. We will need to replace a sizeable percentage of our own weapons and vehicle stocks (on the order of 20 percent or more) due to premature wear in the desert, and that's likely not in the Iraq supplementals, but rather an increase in future defense budgets. Arming allies is a great idea, if you're speaking of a standing alliance like NATO. Are we putting together such a Sunni alliance, in a Mideast racked by sectarian strife for centuries? (That leaves the discussion of Israel aside, for the sake of this point, as they've only existed since 1948). The technology available today includes far more powerful weapons, which can cause more damage, thereby serving as a catalyst for even broader conflicts.
Anyone who opposes this will be labeled 'coward' or worse by the GOP and their galley-slave posters, who prey on everyone's fears (some justified in terms of Iran and al Qaeda; and some not justified, such as WMD in Iraq), so it will be interesting to see how this plays. In a pre-election period, it gives the GOP another reason to beat their chests in public, and that may be part of the reason for it. I also want to see what Putin has to see about the selective spread of American weaponry, as he was none too thrilled with the missile deal.)
Business as usual in Washington my dears, business as usual. Last month it was reported that former Saudi ambassador to the United States Prince Bandar was bribed something on the order of $250 million pounds per year from 85-95 as part of an arms deal between Great Britian and the Saudis. Really how sad is this? The US reaps a grim harvest. We are the greatest arms dealer of all time. The sad fact of the matter is that arms are as difficult to track as diamonds. Many of the arms that we send to Arab countries end-up in third world nations sold through a network of clandestine dealers once they move beyond their period of serviceability. Follow the money and look for the usual suspects the Petra Banks et al. Amazing that the Bush administration would push something like this through. If a democrat tried to do something like this it would be investigated to death. As things stand it'll probably be approved.
Beltway Greg
The pro-Israel bloc (meaning that group who continually bring Israel into each discussion, as Giuliani does with 9/11) are kind of stuck here. They don't want the spread of weaponry to Arab states on general principles; yet the provision for restocking Israel's own arms appeals to them, as well as that pro-Israel bloc's loyalty to Bush in return. Bush has been consistently pro-Israel (except for the fact that he's spent his Presidency neglecting solution of the Palestine problem, unless forced to by the Hamas 'surprise' election'), and I don't see the pro-Israel bloc (Lieberman et al) standing against this. I cannot believe that Bush was dumb enough to not have consulted them on this. Then, again ...
Imagine the risks of one Saudi fighter pilot with JDAM's, a fanatic 'sleeper', flying around. With these weapons, ONE attack can inflame the entire region. The shooting of Archduke Ferdinand in 1914 had nothing on the potential of seeing these weapons in the wrong hands.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/28/AR200707280117 2.html
The Bush administration's plan to sell $20 billion in advanced weaponry to Saudi Arabia and five other Persian Gulf countries is running into congressional opposition and criticism from human rights and arms control groups.
Members of Congress vowed yesterday to oppose any deal to Saudi Arabia on grounds that the kingdom has been unhelpful in Iraq and unreliable at fighting terrorism. King Abdullah has called the U.S. military presence in Iraq an 'illegitimate occupation,' and the Saudis have been either unable or unwilling to stop suicide bombers who have ended up in Iraq, congressional sources say.
Human rights groups warned that new U.S. arms meant to contain Iran's rising influence could backfire, allowing President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to rally greater support for his hard-line faction in the run-up to parliamentary elections next spring. And arms control groups said Bush's strategy would accelerate an already-dangerous trend that could increase tensions rather than generate a greater sense of security.
I think Mike sums up very nicely his racist attitude by calling Muslims rapist and pigs who rape their daughters and pets.
It is precisely of idiots like you that the world is a much dangerous place to live in. You bring shame to the great religion of christianity, and as a devout catholic, i can only pray the Lord show to you some light.You seem to be so ignorant about the world we live in, so uneducated, so childish and oh, don't forget reading through worldwide statistics about who - very sadly are raping their own kids and violating their animals?
Go get an education. it may help clear your nuked mind. Stupid! and please.................not in my name do you slander people. Is the bible not clear on this?
and to monsters and critics.com that allow these irrelevent and obscene comments to get published in direct contrast to your policy?
This is a response to you paul. Although the person did use rascist slander against the muslim people you urself seemed to be against free speech, and neglected to put out trues facts. Although the bible says dont slander others in my name, the catholic pope has called all other christian churches illegitimate, and he himself said that the ideology of islam was spread by the sword. Jesus christ died and in that made himself a martyr to his own cause. I dont beleive mohamid did anything like that but instead sweapt down with a vengence against his wrong doers.
Very typical of America and the Red necks who typically vote in the kind of government currently running the U.S. America is supplying weapons of mass destruction to a very volatile region their next target, Iran.
Do they ever learn, every person who votes for these unintelligent scum is as guilty as Bush administration.
People, these are some of the most ignorant remarks I have heard yet! Hello 9/11 was a false flag operation by our government. Yep Osama is still hiding, while you yourself can go onto Google Earth and look down at the rake laying in your back yard...Its obvious Americans are brainwashed idiot,this add comment section only proves it. WOw you all are going to be in the black when you learn this at the last moment. The patriot Act, the 2006 military commisions act, suspension of Habeas Corpus by this president which are all currently in place are soon going to be your prison cell. They don't have to tell your families anything! The consiracies are correct, the only reason why they linger is because the government won't step up to the plate and put them to rest, its because they can't! Why why why did building 7 fall by the two trade centers hours after the centers? What were int hos building morons...go look it up its in black and white and read all over..Rupert Murdoch, the bancroft family, the richest people in the world, Thommy Thmpson who backs the selling of the 'veri' chip , 8,000 to date ! Its all there and its all on the news...except morons like yourselves are too busy watching Faux News mornings about how Mr. Rodgers ruined a generation of children because he told them they were 'special', Get the fuc* out of here! Its this government, both reps and dems that are hybrids who vote with interest groups at heart, not the god dam people! They don't give a dam about us..They want control. The chaos in Iraq they want! why, because with out chaos they wouldnt beable to keep 'permanent' bases there and secure the oil... Our lives unless airheads like yuo decide to wake up are going to be over. Bush with his North AMerican Union is signed and already has taken your sovereignty away..all in the name as business, which will eventually merge with the rest of the world. Apolice state is coming, we see it every day...thats how there getting away with it, in the name of 'national Security' thats the beauty of a 'war on terror' thats constantly on going!They have done nothing but made more terrorists from what thye have done, or atleast given reason, and any asshole who says otherwise is an asshole! The saudis we love because there government owns some 25% of our economy! There people, there citizens hate us...the worse propaganda comes from them...Remember morons they are Sunni...The supposed hijackers on 9/11 were sunni... Iran is predom Shia..God I give up..anyone willing to listen, go to www.myspace.com/danmtortora... Its more about our lives, lively hood, the true real freedom we all deserve, regaurd of race,gender or sex pref...who are these half ass elected phony scum bags that do nothing but get our country into trouble care about us.. They dont, that should be the easiest thing to see. Ron paul is a constitutionalist with no interest groups risinf because he has a non interference, financially conservative, truly small government agenda...Hes a true republican not anyt of this crap we see now a days.. Truth is its always been the dems that were big government...Now is the reps!? Reagan lived and learned and pulled out of lebanon and said hed never do it again! We are no better then them if we are saying blow all the muslim countries to hell! We sold those wmds to saddam... We brought the taliban to reign by using osama to fight the russians to keep them out of afghan in the 70s -80-s... Its called Blow back... And our government ont he morning of our 7 years after hasn't educated the american people on this!>? the media says nothing! Hello whistle blower rights can you say!? Please people wake up!...please I love you guys, your my brothers, sisters, mothers , fathers, we have mor in common, we are human beings that do care about life, not these politicians who send other men off to war to die...thats cowardly specially when we learn how unjust a war it was...and how we were manipulated to accept it...Please Im begging you to stand up to this government and say enough, before its too late...But there is hope...these people have been wiping generations off the map for thousands of years, and they will not succeed this time, we have lived and have learned the way of the eveil beings who 'have' to have control over the masses>..now fight back, for your freedom isn't free anymore ? no its under 'circumstances' and laws protecting you from what? God Help us!
Dan its always refreshing to hear from an american who actually knows whats going on.
Hey, why all the fuss??
It isn't as if they will sell arms, build and train armies, and the maddogs we create would become a threat to the oil profits for someone in DC...again.
I have to ask, how many soldiers on the front lines are family members of those sending them to die???
...our families are dieing to ensure the profits of those making these insane deals...enough is enough.
I can see what this is developing into... As the Neocons starts feeling the mounting pressure to leave Iraq, they are making sure that their Allies in the Middle East are ready to take over the burden of Iraq. Iran is in perfect position to take over Iraq after a US pull out. The Pentagon is simply strengthening the American friends in the region in order to make sure that even without American troops, American influence will be felt in Iraq and the Middle East. The reason the Americans are capable of giving specific guidelines to the Saudis as to where they can store their bombs and such is because the weapons are not meant for Israel, they are meant for the Iraqi front. Within the next 10 years, the Pentagon sees the Iraqi quandary boiling over and creating a wider conflict, they are simply planning for that eventuality.
As for the hate/racist tone of earlier comments. I find it funny that so many people will jump to both negative and positive conclusions related to Islam without really knowing of what they speak. I would suggest those who are interested to read the first 10-20 pages of any english translated (or whatever your preferred language is) Q'uran. It is written in black and white, either you're a believer (Muslim) or not. A line is drawn in the book, it isn't very hard for clerics to turn that line into an ideological struggle. It takes a smart Muslim to look beyond the book and practice the religion in a moderate and peaceful way. I applaud moderates of all religions, but there are a lot of extremists out there, and there are even more idiots who can be persuaded to do dumb things. The key is understanding, on both sides of the Islamic line.
Japan's election results mean that the opposition party now has influence, and will be more focused on 'pocketbook' matters - our current relationship with Japan, based on a sole party in power for many years, may shift, and no one yet knows how, except that the party gaining power is not as pacifist, military.
PM Brown is looking to NOT be the next Blair, and has already visited Germany and France before seeing Bush - he will look for trade deals before agreeing to keep British troops in Iraq. His focus is on Afghanistan, which is exactly where ours should have been. This is a 'finance guy', and Bush will have to pay for support that Blair offered essentially at 'no charge'.
Israel is publicly signed off on the total arms deal, but their right wing is questioning how their safety can be assured by arming the Saudis, should the Saudi monarchy be threatened by the very radicals that the Saudis have financed for years. It's like watching a puzzle being solved - create a problem, complain about the problem, pay someone else to fix the problem, create another problem.
Meanwhile, Pakistan festers, as Bhutto will only assist if Musharraf drops his military leadership role. This is a country with nuclear weapons, a military with strong influence, and a radical population that they cannot control.
Congress is being forced towards signing off on this weapons deal, since supplying Israel is a key part of it, restocking their supplies after last year's war. The defense contractors now have a new reason to lobby and fund those for 2008 who agree. Those speaking against it will be called 'against Israel', just as those who not in favor of funding Iraq forevermore are called 'against our own troops', or 'for radicals' or 'pro-Iran'. The pattern is set, and the game is fixed. This explains why Rice's visit was delayed, as support for this legislation will be needed, despite the Saudis' own public complaints about al-Maliki's leadership in Iraq. This is an attempt to buy support of Sunni oil-producing nations, so that they can assist with leverage against Iran when we draw down in Iraq. This can agitate minority Shia populations in the area, since we've been seem as tilted towards the Sunnis since 1991, when our policy left Iraq's Shia majority under Saddam's boot. The West sought Sunni dominance in the area, even before Saddam. The price is inreasing the number and power of weapons in the area which might pass to radical hands, with someone inside making sales. Remember A. Q. Khan in Pakistan?
Strangely, we would have had that very leverage cheaply, just by having left Saddam in the same position now as Bush's own father had left him in 1991, when Cheney was SecDef, and spoke in 1992 himself against going to Baghdad and removing Saddam. It's been a very expensive lesson, and will continue to be. Saddam was a 'bad guy', but he was 'our bad guy'. Dictators get in trouble only when our control slips.
''Very typical of America and the Red necks''
Selling arms to Saudi Arabia? LOL! Oh no, no one in the UK would EVER do that....
As usual Ali Turd, you are just rankled because you have been beaten at your own game.
By the way, this 'red neck' could buy and sell you.
'People, these are some of the most ignorant remarks I have heard yet! Hello 9/11 was a false flag operation by our government.'
Take your medication Dan.
(This is a good actual illustration of what can happen when you lose control, and in the process lose information and other secrets. Military sales to the Saudis are in the same ballpark. There are those amongst the Saudi upper leadership tiers who have ties to Sunni radicals. We have a similar problem drawing down in Iraq, since each of our 30 battalions probably has 100 million pounds of related equipment and materiel we ought not leave laying around.)
online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118575064310581669-ttwYGROTiBzCpFnHeg9h Wq1zcc8_20070828.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top
'When the Islamist group Hamas conquered the Gaza Strip in June it seized an intelligence-and-military infrastructure created with U.S. help by the security chiefs of the Palestinian territory's former ruler.
According to current and former Israeli intelligence officials, former U.S. intelligence personnel and Palestinian officials, Hamas has increased its inventory of arms since the takeover of Gaza and picked up technical expertise -- such as espionage techniques -- that could assist the group in its fight against Israel or Washington's Palestinian allies, the Fatah movement founded by Yasser Arafat.
Hamas leaders say they acquired thousands of paper files, computer records, videos, photographs and audio recordings containing valuable and potentially embarrassing intelligence information gathered by Fatah. For more than a decade, Fatah operated a vast intelligence network in Gaza established under the tutelage of the Central Intelligence Agency.'
According to the comments here, the 'weed' is alive and well. Will the U.S. again borrow from China to pay for this latest fiasco in the making?
page: 1
Your Talkback on this Story