Al-Sadr's political movement plans to leave Iraqi government
Middle East News
Apr 16, 2007, 4:27 GMT
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Ahh let them do what they want. At least it is own their soil. Stay away from the west.
why hasn't somebody over there already shot this ignorant moron? He will be a perrenial part of the Islamic problem and never part of the solution - he doesn't have the intelligence to be taken seriously by anybody but his hapless followers.
For Sadr, he wants nothing more than power. His self interest have always been above everything and he can never be part of the solution. I knew that when they first let him to have a share of the power that he would be nothing but a setback and a waste of time.
Al Sadr is a stain on humanity. This should free him up to plan even more retribution. By playing politics he has lost his focus on what's really important. The new holocaust. Al Sadr, like Mohammed, blows.
Right, Wacer. He just wants power, as do all of his large numbers of followers. Unfortunately, they can't get what they want because so many foreign troops are on their soil propping up a government that they see as illegitimate that the only solution they see is to leave the government and oppose it with violence. In fact, the only Iraqis that actually want us their are the ones who have the power right now -- the citizens of Iraq certainly don't want us there. Unfortunately, yet again, we seem to be the problem. As history has shown time and time again, when an occupying power leaves a country in which they have created this kind of turnoil, the turmoil ceases.
The problem needs real understanding, not your brand of knee-jerk gung-ho testosterone-driven ignorance that serves to support only the corruption that some of /our/ leaders wish to encode into law in order to line their pockets.
We should step back and let the muslims fight it out amongst themselves. Then, when the smoke has cleared, we should drop a huge bomb on the winners.
Big Mo Hammed: Spoken like a true American. No wonder we're hated around the world. I, for one, prefer to have friends. You can go it alone if you want to, but you'll be fighting the whole world alone.
When will you people turn on your brains? Are you really the wanna-be Hitlers that you proclaim?
'Spoken like a true American. No wonder we're hated around the world. '
Well Davis, spoken like an indoctrinated, self flagellating, ignorant leftist half-wit with self aggrandizing delusions of enlightenment and moral superiority.
'I, for one, prefer to have friends.'
Lots of these 'friends' seem to be only happy when we are on our knees. These 'friends' are resentful of what we have built and want to see us knocked down to their level. These 'friends' tend to be as bigoted against us as the most reprehensible, backward 1950's segregationist...
Regardless, I for one prefer to have principles rather then some jr-high school notion of popularity.
'You can go it alone if you want to, '
We are not alone. Some though, are content to see us do all the lifting while offering nothing but complaints. That would be the case regardless. I am reminded of a line from 'Fight Club':
'I'll bring us through this. As always. I'll carry you - kicking and screaming - and in the end you'll thank me.'
So carry on kicking and screaming 'David Dickinson'... Better men are carrying you on their backs.
Hidden Imam: Who, besides the nuts on the other side (who are not different from you) want us 'on our knees'? This is a common lie promulgated by people such as yourself who have no other means by which to support your cause.
You speak of your principles. Do your principles include dropping 'a huge bomb on the winners'? Do your principles include alienating every other nation in the world? I suppose that your support for our current policies also includes support for the torture we continue to inflict on others -- many of whom are innocent. Your support also would have to include the needless deaths of 600,000 people, most of which were innocent men, women, and children, which resulted directly from our actions in Iraq. And, naturally, to be consistent you also would have to support Bush's attempts to subvert the Iraqi economy to the neocon ideal by forcing Iraqis to enact a law which robs them of their oil for the benefit of Bush's cronies.
We once fought a revolution against imperialists such as yourself. You represent the ideals against which we fought during our revolution. You seek to stifle freedom and to promote killing masses of people for money and oil.
I believe that we can have a better world -- much better than the violent, chaotic one which you ignorantly propose, but only if we employ the tools of reason that you obviously lack. Your authoritarianism will create only that chaos -- we need no further demonstrations of that fact. As an American who values our Constitution and who wants to do good during my life, I oppose you absolutely.
Our lives cannot be better if we exploit or ignore or bring misery to our neighbors, which is all that you propose. The most essential principle which you apparently have not learned is that everyone in the world is our neighbor. And if we continue to piss off the entire world, especially while we are simultaneously weakening our freedoms and economy and selling out our fellow Americans, as we do now under neocon policies, they will come after us, and then we truly will be 'on our knees'.
'Who, besides the nuts on the other side (who are not different from you) want us 'on our knees'?'
Who is this 'other side' that you speak of? The one that I am smiler too?
'Do your principles include dropping 'a huge bomb on the winners'?'
It depends on who the 'winners' are. In a word no, I do not advocate the 'plan' outlined above.
'Do your principles include alienating every other nation in the world? '
Not for alienations sake. However, I do not believe that giving foreign nations or other entities a veto over our policies or diluting our sovereignty in order to have some infantile notion of 'popularity' among people who passive-aggressively use that to play on the insecurities of weak minded individuals is a good idea. Shooting ourselves in the foot to curry favor with the editorial pages of the Guardian or other entities that are resentful of us in order to achieve some kind of seal of approval is not a good idea. Especially when they would immediately insist that we shoot ourselves in the other foot.
'I suppose that your support for our current policies also includes support for the torture we continue to inflict on others'
What 'torture' is this you speak of? Are we cutting off heads and putting the video on the internet? Are we taking people off the street in Baghdad and, depending on their sect murdering them with cordless drills? Are we putting children in the back of cars in order to get through checkpoints and blowing them up? Please be more specific.
' Your support also would have to include the needless deaths of 600,000 people, most of which were innocent men, women, and children, which resulted directly from our actions in Iraq. '
1) your little lancet figure of 600,000 has been demonstrated to be a complete fraud over and over again.
2) When you say they are a direct result from 'Our' actions are you referring to the Al Queda/Baathist/Revolutionary guard? Those who have been responsible for the car bombings and truck bombings and the suicide bombings and the bombing bombings that have claimed the overwhelming majority of the people killed in Iraq? If that is the case at least you are honest about your affiliatiion with those who you make excuses for.
' And, naturally, to be consistent you also would have to support Bush's attempts to subvert the Iraqi economy to the neocon ideal by forcing Iraqis to enact a law which robs them of their oil for the benefit of Bush's cronies.'
AAAh, yes, the true mark of an adolescent moonbat. Lets get specific on that one too; what is this law that you speak of and how is it different from the other laws regarding oil leases in the Middle East?
'We once fought a revolution against imperialists such as yourself.'
So I am an 'imperialist'? (Someone learned a new word over at Kos) What evidence do you have to back up that charge?
'You seek to stifle freedom and to promote killing masses of people for money and oil.'
No, just the opposite. In fact, you are an apologist for those who seek to stifle freedom in order to have a repressive, theocratic kleptoocracy that is exporting terrorism with it's new found wealth in oil money. I wish the Iraqis freedom and self determination. That is the truth. They don't have it yet, when they get it we should go.
'I believe that we can have a better world -- much better than the violent, chaotic one which you ignorantly propose, but only if we employ the tools of reason that you obviously lack.'
And I proposed a 'violent, chaotic one' where? (You naive, sanctimonious blow hard) I too believe we can have a better world, I also believe that Islamist terrorism is an impediment to moving toward that utopia, and that we need to have the stamina and strength to stand against it. I also believe that despite the pathetic rants of those like you who are ruled by their sense of what they think is fashionable that what we have built here and the ideals that we were founded on are worth defending. They are non negotiable, even if that means that we are occasionally viewed by people who want to exert some measure of control over as as 'un-popular'. I believe that it is cowardice masking as pseudo 'moral superiority' and just plain ignorance that leads you to think otherwise.
'Your authoritarianism will create only that chaos -- we need no further demonstrations of that fact'
Truly Orwellian newspeak: Democracy = Authoritarianism, Saddam = Freedom. Congratulations, you regurgitate your programming well.
'As an American who values our Constitution and who wants to do good during my life, I oppose you absolutely.'
'Absolutely' eh... Why don't you use your brain instead of knee-jerk opposing.
(That is the whole problem with you and yours isn't it?)
When you say that you are an 'American who values our Constitution' I wonder what you mean. Value a piece of paper that can essentially means our sovereignty? Why that might make us 'unpopular' in Brussels or Paris or in London. I wonder what you value it for? Table cloth? Toilet tissue? I once promised to defend and uphold the Constitution and where I come from promises are kept. You don't value or constitution, you want to be the international prom queen, beholden to people who have resented us since 1776 to one degree or another.
'Our lives cannot be better if we exploit or ignore or bring misery to our neighbors, which is all that you propose. '
Thanks again for putting words in my mouth and attributing proposals to me that I never made. You truly see only what you want to see. How unique of you and the mindset that you represent so well.
'The most essential principle which you apparently have not learned is that everyone in the world is our neighbor. '
Good lord. Ill remember that drivel the next time I see planes full of people being flown into buildings full of people, your happy horsesh!! espoused with childlike naiveté will help me sleep better at night with the knowledge that there are people who want to kill us for the simple and only reason that we are kafir and they will go to any lengths to do it. I know this for a fact.
'they will come after us, and then we truly will be 'on our knees'.'
So do what they say or else... You recite Bin Ladens rhetoric well. They will come after us regardless of what we do, because we are a sovereign nation with a constitution who is unwilling to give a bunch of islamist thugs a veto over what we do. (As you propose) If you are cowardly and self flagellating to really get your head around that fact then perhaps you need to move somewhere more 'popular'. Have fun complaining about your 'freedoms' there.
Hidden Imam: You have defined fascism perfectly, and described yourself as an adherent. You have also demonstrated extremely well -- whether knowingly or not -- the neocons' effective use of dishonesty in the forms of misinformation, obfuscation, avoidence, and outright lies in the pursuit of power by repeating the deservedly ridiculed claims of our federal administration (no one believes them anymore because too many people know the facts).
While all reasonable people would agree that when the whole world is telling you the same thing, it is prudent (I don't use the word 'wise' because the reasoning is so elementary) to listen. You, on the other hand, take the opposite course.
And now that we know that you are right and the whole world is wrong, we can safely conclude that you are not merely careless, but arrogantly so. With your comments about torture and the hundreds of thousands of people who have died in Iraq who would not be dead if we had not invaded, we must conclude that you either are lying or are ignorant. While I admit that it is possible that you really do not know the truth and you really believe the falsehoods you spew, the facts are too widely known and readily available for me to believe that you don't know them. Nevertheless, whether you are lying or simply ignorant makes no difference. Either way, you are a danger to decent people everywhere.
The incompetence and greed of President Bush and his cohorts have made Iraq one of the most dangerous and chaotic countries in which to live. You support him. I oppose you.
“Hidden Imam: You have defined fascism perfectly, and described yourself as an adherent.”
Where? Please point out where I have done that? Again, you attribute points of view and arguments to me that I have not made. Point out where I have done that or shut up. God, it is so unbelievably infantile of you to label everyone who doesn’t hop on your idiotic, fantasy land bandwagon as “fascist”, ironic too because your drivel effectively defends the genuine fascists in the equation. Fool.
“You have also demonstrated extremely well -- whether knowingly or not -- the neocons' effective use of dishonesty in the forms of misinformation, obfuscation”
Where have I done these things? Way to ignore any argument I have made and fall back on childish insults… Just FYI I am not a neocon, so your all purpose scapegoating doesn’t work there either.
“avoidence[sic],”
I have answered your diatribe line by line, you give no indication that you even read my rebuttal. You truly see what you want to see, that seems to be the way the leftist mind needs to work in order to maintain your world view.
“While all reasonable people would agree that when the whole world is telling you the same thing,”
I just love these categorical propositions you wallow in… “the whole world” … “All reasonable people”… You sound like you are a complete slave to your need for acceptance to some undifferentiated peer group. Are you that insecure in yourself? Undoubtedly yes. Regardless, you do not speak for the “whole world” you never will speak for the “whole world” you are hardly the arbiter of what “all reasonable people” think as you have demonstrated that you are “reasoning challenged”. In short, despite your fantasies borne of insecurity you are just a pipsqueak on the internet and not the spokesperson for the planet. Another vital point: Even if you were, that would not necessarily make you correct.
“You, on the other hand, take the opposite course.”
I think for myself, I am not so unbelievably insecure as to desperately need to follow like-minded people. (Grow up)
“And now that we know that you are right and the whole world is wrong,”
LOL… You just can’t help yourself, can you? Poor thing.
“With your comments about torture and the hundreds of thousands of people who have died in Iraq who would not be dead if we had not invaded, we must conclude that you either are lying or are ignorant.”
Saddam killed 300,000 people according to human rights watch, that is verifiable in that they have been counting the skulls. (That is not including the over a million people he killed in his various wars) Where was your concern for them? You hypocrite? When you say there are people who are dead because of our actions, sure, that is a tragedy. However, I do not think that it is “fair” to blame us for the actions of a bunch of thugs who want to murder as many Iraqis as possible in order to make the biggest headlines as possible so useful idiots like yourself can transpose your disgust at their barbaric actions on the very people who are there trying to prevent such actions from occurring.
“While I admit that it is possible that you really do not know the truth and you really believe the falsehoods you spew,”
And you have a lock on this “truth”. Could it be possible that you are wrong? What “falsehoods” have I spewed by the way? You never answer that question, just preach on and on… What “falsehoods” have I spewed? Do tell.
“he facts are too widely known and readily available for me to believe that you don't know them.”
Which facts? The ones you get on Common dreams? Daily Kos? Huffington post? All those other echo chambers that enable you to feel that you are “a part” of something? (At the cost of thinking for yourself?) What “Facts” are those… Why is it you are never specific about any of the charges you make? To give you room to run away?
“Nevertheless, whether you are lying or simply ignorant makes no difference.”
About what? Specifically? Where have I lied?
“Either way, you are a danger to decent people everywhere.”
Are you suddenly the elected leader of “decent people” as well as “the world” and “all reasonable people” ? Here is another question that you will run away from: Does such pomposity effectively mask your obvious insecurity in your real life interactions with others? It isn’t working here.
“The incompetence and greed of President Bush and his cohorts have made Iraq one of the most dangerous and chaotic countries in which to live. You support him. I oppose you.”
There it is, in a nutshell, your mindset. “You support him (Bush). I oppose you.” So whatever Bush does you oppose. Categorically. Unthinking, unreasoning, unquestioning, completely reflexive… Whatever it is you are against.
Isn’t that stupid. Isn’t that typical. You have basically spelled out your infantile world view right there. You rube. Heck, I happen not to be a big Bush supporter, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. You are perfectly willing to abandon any reasoned examination of a specific question and leap on the “opposite” bandwagon. Is that laziness or stupidity? “George Bush opposes jumping off a bridge, therefore I am going to jump off a bridge.” “George Bush opposes al Qaeda, therefore I am for al Qaeda.” Brilliant.
Here, something else that is over your head but describes you perfectly:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
If the link doesn’t work it is on utube: HERITAGE FOUNDATION: 'How Modern Liberals Think'
Grow up David Dickinson.
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