Ossetia conflict between Georgia and Russia expands (3rd Roundup)
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By Deutsche Presse-Agentur Aug 9, 2008, 16:03 GMT
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Um, Peter, the lines you speak of seem to be drawn on Georgia's sovereign territory.
I spoke to relatives in Russia and they said it is being played like 1939 - when the evil finnish hordes invaded the defenseless soviet union.
Simply put, Russia is going to crush any government within reach who opposes its regional hegemony. Unfortunately for Russia, if Georgia does not back down, Russia cannot prevail without a massive escalation. I was in Abkhasia when war broke out there in 1992. Georgian civilians were slaughtered by the thousands by abkhaz irregulars supported by Russian military.
The Georgians started this war; they made their bed, let them now sleep in it. They thought they would take over all the separatist areas of the country by the brand new arms they've been buying (probably from the west) as part of their arms buildup. They thought NATO or the US would come to their rescue if things went south. Well things are going south and they now have to live with their defeat.
..here they are, totally surrounded by trade partners. They could be the economic powerhouse of Asia, and they think THIS is important.
This tells you a lot about the Russian leaderships mindset.
If even ten percent of internet users would send a message to Russia and Georgia to stop, lay their arms down and negotiate peacefully they would seriously consider it. Instead, there is nothing but silence and a few guys cheering either side. That speaks volumes to the state of our consciousness.
I am Ukrainian from Kiev. When Russia tried to influence Ukraine's elections and Orange revolution started, I naturally wanted Russians to stop their interference and many of my friends were on streets, protesting. Russians were on a bad side. Now.. I can't be certain, but they seem to have legitimate reasons not to stay aside from Ossetia issue, and you should research facts if you not aware of what's involved here. However I am particularly frustrated to see the reaction of other states outside this conflict. It's almost Russia is bad because it's, well, Russia. There is a lot of hate and misinformation involved, for many people in the West the cold war never ended. And the West isn't being a role model ether, by exercising double standards, they are giving impression that, perhaps Eastern flavor of democracy (as Russians claim they are developing) should be given a chance. So we don't act like apes: who does not look like us should be first demonized and than 'pacified' into submission of accepting our rules. Did you know about Media Reform movement in US? Yep, its all about that, first making democracy work well here, at home, before exporting it to other places. Georgia is a fine example here with hot-tempered leader who act like he is not accountable to his people.
The artcle says:
' While the international community continued to exhort both sides to step back from the brink, the United Nations Security Council remained unable to forge a united response.'
The United Nations may be now obsolete and rendered dead.
We have different factions of NWO (new World Order), including our
sttoges/clowns at White Hose and Congress. I don't know where
Putin and Medvedev stand as far as NWO, but this is not good for
Russia & US relations.
Frankly, as expression goes 'cat was let out of the bag', that is indeed
what happened when King Bush and his neocons pals decided to tear a
piece of Serbia: Kosovo-Methohija.
This was not legal and under UNSC resolution 1244 this indicates
USA has broken laws. So, now it is irrelavant what US politicans
want of Russija in Ossetia. It is all down hill now after
Kosovo.
Keep in mind what Srdja Trifkovic wrote:
- - - -- - - - - - - - - -
Kosovo: A New Day of Infamy for a New Century
'encouraging its Albanian clients go ahead with the unilateral proclamation of independence written at the Department of State, the U.S. administration has made a massive leap into the unknown. ..The fruits will be equally bitter. While their exact size and taste are hard to predict right now, that in the fullness of time America will come to regret the criminal folly of her current leaders is certain.'
h_x_x_p_:_/_/_www._chroniclesmagazine._org_/_?_p_=_515
(remove _ )
- - - - - - - - - - - - -- -
All the power brokers trying stake their claims in the N.W.O must
understand now what the fruits taste like now
Californian
I am from an Ex_yug republic, I have been to those regions and travelled back.
You see we are all brothers Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Macedonians, CrnoGorci-
similar as Ukraincii are brothers with Russii, Byelorussii.
I know quite a few Ukes in NY STate - I am sure they do'nt trust Russii.
But I wonder if you dont think CIA operatives and NGOs have 'set up shop'
in Ukrainja to influnce elections and pedal socalled 'democracy'
- such as democracy being pushed in Iraq
Yes, you have a point, you have to question what Russia is still trying to
to sovereign country like Georgia. But in a model of acting like a growing
superpower again , Putin&Medvedev are free to exercise the actions necessary
to counteract other elites' puppets like Bush1, Bush2, KKlinton, Blair, etc.
I hope you saw what I posted about NWO (New World Order)
You have be aware a bit more about NWO, and what they attempt to do
throut the numerous 'unsolved' conflicts.
Putin maybe s aiming to join the NWO I don't no I have never been to UKraine
or Russija, but maybe some people believe he is accomplishing something
different. Namely, different from Yelstin & Gorbachev as this article interviewsin
Solzhenitsyn states:
- - - - - -- - -- -- - -
h_x_x_p_:_//_www_._spiegel_._de_/_international_/_world_/_0,1518,496003 ,00_._html
(remove _)
SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH ALEXANDER SOLZHENITSYN
07/23/2007
'SPIEGEL: Thirteen years ago when you returned from exile, you were disappointed to see the new Russia. You turned down a prize proposed by Gorbachev, and you also refused to accept an award Yeltsin wanted to give you. Yet now you have accepted the State Prize which was awarded to you by Putin,
Solzhenitsyn: I declined the proposal, since I could not accept an award for a book written in the blood of millions. ...Putin inherited a ransacked and bewildered country, with a poor and demoralized people. And he started to do what was possible -- a slow and gradual restoration.
- - - -- -- - - -- - -- - -
Everyting is done for a reason - and we are all pawns/cannon fodder I guess
>>Frankly, as expression goes 'cat was let out of the bag', that is indeed
what happened when King Bush and his neocons pals decided to tear a
piece of Serbia: Kosovo-Methohija.
This was not legal and under UNSC resolution 1244 this indicates
USA has broken laws. So, now it is irrelavant what US politicans
want of Russija in Ossetia. It is all down hill now after
Kosovo.
'I know quite a few Ukes in NY STate -....But I wonder if you dont think CIA operatives and NGOs have 'set up shop'
in Ukrainja to influnce elections and pedal socalled 'democracy'
- such as democracy being pushed in Iraq'
Why do we allow such idiots to seek refuge in our country? Seriously, why do Americans allow blame America first and common sense be damned types to move here and make their grudges OUR grudges? Don't we have enough indigenous idiots and conspiracists to contend with?
Did the navy know you have relatives in Russia? Is that why you are no longer in the defence of the country, a commie spy? Or was it because you ran your garbage scow into the Admiral's gig in broad daylight?
Vladimir from NYState
I know what you saying. You know, I like both, Russia and US, mainly for its cultures, intellectual people and all the greatness that exist in both countries. And I always assume I know little of what is happening behind politics. I really do, know little. I also know not to trust printed or spoken words from media or politicians, they all have they agendas all right. Here is my view of new and old world orders: it is bull.. I believe (or want to believe) that the homo erectus will one day become homo sapiens and develop a true democracy, where politicians (I'd like to call them social managers) will not be elected by special interest, leftist, rightist or Martians, all driven by some kinds of personal believes and interests then rather simply conducting their constituents will. And for that, brainwashing and propaganda must stop. Everywhere. Am I utopist? Perhaps. But I am also a believer. Do you know what I meaning?
'But I wonder if you dont think CIA operatives and NGOs have 'set up shop' in Ukrainja to influnce elections and pedal socalled 'democracy''
Peddle 'so called' democracy? I lived in Russia for many years - married a Russian, and many of my closest friends are Russian. They would all be honest enough to admit that attempting to assassinate the President, and holding conferences on democratic institutions are quite different. You obviously can't tell the difference.
Russia was a big empire and is now flush with cash and it wants to reassert itself. It is ready to kill people to remind everyone how great they think they are. It is a fundamentally corrupt government.
Is there any possibility to pin responsibility on either side ?As far as I understood Georgia was part of the USSR and separated from it on nationalistic ethnical grounds .Now it seems Ossetians want to separate from Georgia but are not alowad by the very same Georgians that separated...2 different standards perhaps ?Whatever the reasons the consequences are disastrous for the population ,as usual the first victim in any conflict,together with the truth .Sirater than playing the blame game it is urgent to reach a cease fire and have all parties sit at the table .In a war it is the strongest party that wins,not necessarily the one that his all rights on it's side .
Never in history Ossetians and Georgians have been enemies,now suddenly they find themselves hostages of nationalistic parties with agendas that have nothing to do with the interests of the people involved .Patriotism;pride,nationalistic doctrines have always caused great harm in history.It's nothing more than the backbone for those that have not enough brains to rely on common sense .The best solution would be for the soldiers of both parties to refuse to fight each other,dispose of those that oppose populations and nations.
The US wants to reassert itself. It is ready to kill people to remind everyone how great they think they are. It is a fundamentally corrupt government.
Russia is the New Nazi Regime of Europe...this time Europe will have to defend itself...America is tired of your whining and un-gratefulness...do you own fighting or learn russian and STFU.
gotta be muslims. they always cover their face like women.
Georgia should have sealed the borders to its breakaway provinces long ago. Then, a quiet ethnic cleansing of Russian infiltrators within might have been a good solution. But it's too late now, innit?
What were they THINKING?
The LARGE Russian cancer will probably kill Georgia now. Did you notice the Ruskies failed at everything they ever attempted except violence? They have a history of suffering and failure culminating in their bollixed up attempt at communism. Now they've decided to redefine themselves as capitalist imperialists. Ooh, I can't wait!
In case nobody's noticed : the age of free immigration and porous borders is past. Over. All you'll get is somebody else's assholes. Borders of all countries should be hermetically sealed and this should be enforced with deathly force.
Spitfire
SP4: The Mongoloid RussiansAug 9th, 2008 - 16:56:27
..here they are, totally surrounded by trade partners. They could be the economic powerhouse of Asia, and they think THIS is important.
This tells you a lot about the Russian leaderships mindset.
==========================
You'd know about egomaniacs; so why are you having a problem understanding what's happened? Russia is territorial, and sees the U.S. influence as targeting them by stripping away former satellites, and turning them against Russia. Our two countries played chicken for years, and only the threat of MAD kept the world intact. Russia now has economic power through oil, and a very smart leadership; while we have Bush and a $10 trillion debt. And you; to keep his ass damp through kisses.
www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Pat_Buchanan_Foreign_Policy.htm
Avoid the democratist temptation of the internationalists
With the Cold War ending, we should look, too, with a cold eye on the international set, never at a loss for new ideas to divert US wealth and power into crusades and causes having little or nothing to do with the true national interest of the United States. High among these is the democratist temptation [free the world], the worship of democracy as a form of governance and the concomitant ambition to see all mankind embrace it, or explain why not. Like all idolatries, democratism substitutes a false god for the real, a love of process [political pragmatism] for a love of country. The true national interests of the United States are not to be found in some hegemonic and utopian world order. Bush holds global democracy as a goal. This is a formula for endless conflict.'
Source: Where The Right Went Wrong, by Pat Buchanan, p. 13-17&34-35 Sep 1, 2004
(Russia is on the move, and has a point to prove. The risk of the conflict spreading before it naturally winds down, and Russia's expandings its territory thereby. Note the last paragraph below)
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4495637.ece
Georgia pulled its troops out of South Georgia this morning 10,000 Russian troops entered the country. A Georgian interior ministry spokesman, Shota Utiashvili, told Reuters 'They have been withdrawn, completely.' Shortly afterwards, a Georgian government statement said that the Russian troops had entered Georgia in two places.
Hours earlier, Russian warplanes pounded a military airfield near Georgia's capital, Tbilisi. Georgian officials said that Russian warplanes had bombed a military airfield close to Tbilisi's international airport and just eight miles from the capital, hours after launching raids on other parts of the republic beyond the conflict zone in the separatist region of South Ossetia. Russia was accused of seeking the 'annihilation of its former Soviet satellite.
There were also signs that Russia was preparing to open up a second front from Georgia's other breakaway region of Abkhazia on the Black Sea coast. Georgia accused Moscow of sending troops by sea to Abkhazia and a United Nations peacekeeping official warned that separatist fighters were preparing an imminent attack on Georgia.
Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin defended the military campaign as he visited Vladikavkaz, close to the border with South Ossetia. He accused Georgia's 'criminal' leadership of embarking on genocide against the people of Ossetia and said that Russia's actions were 'absolutely well-founded and legitimate and moreover necessary'.
In an ominous turn, Mr Putin warned that it was hard to imagine South Ossetia ever returning to Georgian control. Many in Tbilisi fear that Moscow is intent on re-writing the map of the Caucasus to incorporate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into Russia.
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Peter from NYCAug 9th, 2008 - 16:17:06
The message here is that Russia also has drawn lines concerning it's interests and is willing to back them up. Serves the Georgian leader and his administration right for starting this mess. Hope he gets voted out in the next election.
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