Karadzic letter repeats claims that US offered him immunity
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Aug 1, 2008, 14:08 GMT
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Older Talkback
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The U.S. gives Bush immunity for mass killing muslims, so it could be plausible that they gave Karadzic immunity.
Notice how Saddam was not prosecuted for crimes against humanity for the U.S. backed war with Iran. Saddam was, effectively, given immunity from the U.S. for mass killing.
I hope the court system takes this issue seriously.
make a deal and then renege on it. The US has done this in the past, so this is totally plausable and believable.
I don't think any deals were made.However if so I'd like to point out the fact that Mladic and Karadjic promised the very people they massacred immunity too and made them dig the graves for their brethren only to be shot too afterwrds .THey murdered more than 8000 men and boys ,only because they where bosnian and muslim .No immunity from prosecution could ever be justified in that case ,only a mass murderer could ever believe that,no normal person.So whatever was said ,the right thing is done now .
By the way,the silly anti americanism is completely missplaced here .Forgotten wgo was supposed to protect the habitants from Srebrenicza ?Who failed ?For years the Serbians hve waged war in the Balkan in complete immunity,shooting the people from Sarajevo as if they were rats,the whole world stood idly by.I wouldn't blame the USA more than anybody else here,rather less as Clinton tried to forge a more assertive coalition to make the Serbian militia behave better .A lotof killings could have been prevented .Rmember how the dutch conscripts under UN mandate let the Serbs take the male bosnian population from Srebrenicza away?Whose fault was that ?
Why on earth would an American mediator make a promise to Radovan Karadzic, who is accused of genocide, crimes against humanity, and other war crimes, that he would never have to appear before the International Criminal Tribunal?
America is definitively against any form of genocide and crimes against humanity, though, it can do much better in that arena.
...And if it did promise him that, it would be America's responsibility to free him from the Hague!
We all can improve and America can start by keeping its pledges.
Correction: The Hague
'The U.S. gives Bush immunity for mass killing muslims,'
Muslims are responsible for mass killings of muslims.
'so it could be plausible that they gave Karadzic immunity.'
I was dragged out of graduate school to go half way around the world and dodge Russian surface to air missiles in order to protect muslims in Kosovo because the europeans wouldn't lift a finger. My fiancee was killed in a car accident running an errand that I would have been running because I was saving muslims. Our thanks was 9/11.
You can shove your lame attempts at moral equivalence up the narrowest part of your rear end lance. Saddam killed 400,000 of his own people and caused wars that killed a million. But he gets a pass because he was a member of the religion of peace doing what it's followers do best. I hope the next time your fellow practitioners are liquidating each other (as they are in the Sudan) they are left to it.
'I hope the court system takes this issue seriously.'
Giving him immunity? The USA does not recognize the world court, so obviously we couldn't give him immunity even if we wanted to. He knows this, he is saying it just to give IDIOTS like you another conspiracy theory.
Truth,half truth and downright lies are confusing you.Saddam ran a secular state.He was never a believing muslim unless he could profit from it.Calling everybody that doubts the neocon version of contemporary history a muslim apologists is completely ridiculous .Is there anything that can cure you from this simpleton view of politics .Furthermore linkking the death of your fianceee in a car accident to the massacre of Srebrenicza and handing out the responsibility for both to Europe is equally silly .The first event was carried out by the Bosnian Serbs,the second was an unrelated event ,caused in your own country .Nothing to blame anybody for.Get an education please...
There were competetent officials present during the meeting with Holbrook. Holbrook offered immunity as the official representative of the US. According to some sources this meeting is documented.
Karadzic obviously had some protection from western security agencies.That is the only plausible explanation for his not being apprehended for so long.
'I was dragged out of graduate school ... My fiancee was killed in a car accident running an errand.'
I am sorry that your fiancee died and I understand your grief and anger.
However, I suspect you went to war because you chose to. That is the beauty of having no draft. You can't blame the government, only yourself. I also suspect that a muslim had nothing to do with your fiancee's death. Your fiancee chose to drive a car and she had the misfortune of being involved in an accident. However she died, I suspect it was not intentional.
I have met people like you before. Their friends get killed at the Pentagon by a hand full of mentally ill people and all of the sudden they want to kill muslims in Iraq and blame one billion people for what a handful of people did.
It is called: Lashing out. If you need to lash out at me on this forum then feel free. I hope it helps you with your grief. I also hope that you are able to surmount your anger and grief and forgive those that cause you to chose a path different from what you wanted. You can start by the first logical point: The recruiting station that you enlisted at that cause you to be subsequently dragged out of graduate school.
'The USA does not recognize the world court'
Exactly, the U.S. chooses immunity from prosecution and they get the immunity through force and power. No one is able to drag a U.S. politician into a world court because of the implicit immunity of power and force.
'Saddam ran a secular state. He was never a believing muslim unless he could profit from it.'
I think that Saddam was a muslim by upbringing, but was a bit jaded by religion and preferred a secular situation. I also suspect no one will really know because they killed Saddam with anger and there are so many revisionists that hate him and want to discredit him. Sure, he was a prick power monger, just as Bush is a prick power monger. But, that is no excuse to manipulate history (which you seem not to do, but others do).
Anyways, there are some ironies here:
(a) The U.S. is based on a secular government, much like Saddam's government.
(b) The U.S. wants to be a christian nation, just as Iraq wants to be a muslim nation.
(c) There were (essentially) no terrorist in Iraq before the U.S. got there. Saddam dealt with insurrection with harsh responses. Exactly what the U.S. is doing now.
(d) Christians were given more protection under Saddam then they have under the U.S. occupation.
It is a real tragedy that the U.S. choose to embrace methods of evil, mass kill people and take away their freedom, in order to bring the christian values of the U.S. It is a case of the ends justify the means.
You can understand this situation by going to New Hampshire and reading their license plate: 'Live Free Or Die'.
It appears that many muslims and people in Iraq choose to fight and die and resist occupation for the benefit of living free the way THEY chose to, not the way the U.S. chooses for them.
I don't necessarily agree with their choice, but it is there choice not mine.
The U.S. is fighting against the very thing they believe in: Self determination.
This guy was lied to by the Clinton administration.
Golly, what a surprise.
The deal was brokered under Clinton. The deal was scrapped by BUSH!!!!!
Cut and paste from other news sources:
US peace negotiator in Bosnia, Richard Holbrooke, had promised he would avoid trial if he withdrew from public life.
The source said: 'I'm not sure there was a written document confirming so, but I do have Holbrooke's admission of verbal guarantees given to Karadzic from the highest level of the US.'
'In other news, the sky is blue! This guy was lied to by the Clinton administration. Golly, what a surprise.'
Trying to bring in partisan bickering, eh? Well, I say who cares if it is a Democrat or Republican. The idea of immunity from mass murder spans political affiliation and is wrong for either, both and all parties in the U.S. and elsewhere.
Your divisive partisan bickering is what makes the United States government, and participating in it, an awful experience.
... or a good experience if you like arguing and bickering incessantly while running up huge deficits and watching people get mass murdered and starve.
'Saddam ran a secular state.He was never a believing muslim unless he could profit from it.'
So does that mean he didn't fill up mass graves full of muslims? Or start several wares which killed muslims?
'Calling everybody that doubts the neocon version of contemporary history a muslim apologists is completely ridiculous'
Not everyone. There is a difference between you, a snotty euro-tic who has been indoctrinated in to this delusional idea that you are in a position to be sanctimonious and lance who is in fact an islamist apologist. You are just an idiot and a coward. There is something worse on his agenda.
'.Furthermore linkking the death of your fianceee in a car accident to the massacre of Srebrenicza and handing out the responsibility for both to Europe is equally silly '
You were a hell of a lot closer yet you did nothing. There is no link but I am the 4th generation American to have to go over and fight in one of your wars, mostly because people like YOU chose to appease a problem or collaborate with it rather then confront it. (Yet you believe that you are owed such deference)
'Get an education please... '
I have degrees from Ivy league institutions and you can't compose a sentence without it looking like it was typed by a monkeys tail. Get an education yourself, not an indoctrination.
'So does that mean he didn't fill up mass graves full of muslims?'
Don't look at it in terms of black and white.
The answer is:
For the most part, he did such things to an equal extent that the U.S. has done such things. No one is perfect.
'I have degrees from Ivy league institutions'
The first thing I learned after getting my Ivy league institution degree is to realize that the degree is only a start and that many people who graduate from such institutions are brilliant and many are not. Again: Not black and white.
'I have met people like you before.'
People who reject your excuse making? I have met people like you too before. You blame the western world for oppressing you when it is the adherence to a stupid theology that oppresses half your population that has kept you lagging behind. You blame others because it is easier then honest self examination. Poor us, we are not liked and only because we make excuses for people who make women cover themselves in black when they go to outside... Or for others who blow up children at checkpoints.
'Their friends get killed at the Pentagon by a hand full of mentally ill people and all of the sudden they want to kill muslims in Iraq and blame one billion people for what a handful of people did.'
I only blame the people who make excuses for their atrocities as you have done here. I only blame the islamist idiots who put the rantings of a long dead pedophile, thief, slave owner and rapist ahead of common decency and humanity. If these monsters were to be written off as 'mentally ill' you also need to address the poinon that made them so. That is infecting a billion people to one degree or another.
'It is called: Lashing out. '
We did not deliberately lash out at civilians in Iraq or anywhere else. If you would bother to open your eyes you would see that the people who were blowing themselves to pieces in school yards and pet markets were not American Presbyterians from Kansas. The people who were dousing Iraqi police with gasoline and burning them alive were not Irish Catholics from Boston and the people who were sawing heads off and posting the video on the internet were not Jews from New York. Muslims murdered Muslims in Iraq, yet you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that because you want to play the perpetual victim. If you feel that you have been victimized then you need to go somewhere where you can all brood on your phony sense of oppression and raise little suicide bombers.
Once again, there have been deadly islamist 'lashings out' in: India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Argentina and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives...etc, etc...
Anywhere muslims follow the teachings of the Koran there are 'lashings out'. It has been going on for 1400 years. Does humanity not have a right to protect itself?
'If you need to lash out at me on this forum then feel free. '
Thank you for your permission. Grow up and take responsibility and stop blaming everyone else for their reactions when the deen follow the teachings of mohammad (PB&J).
' You can start by the first logical point: The recruiting station that you enlisted'
I enlisted because I love my country and I believe in the constitution. I suggest you take some of your own patronizing advice and examine why people react to the constant islamist violence around the world the way they do, Maybe you wouldn't want to identify yourself with something that has caused so much misery for the past 1400 years. I posted the quotes from the Koran, maybe you wouldn't want to be involved in a theology that divides the world into 'believers' and things to be subjugated or killed. Start at the first logical point, lance: Who first taught you that humanity is the clean and proper islamic deen and the dirty, soon to be slaves kufar? Go kick them in the shin.
'No one is able to drag a U.S. politician into a world court because of the implicit immunity of power and force.'
Well that and that it is a farce that has no jurisdiction in other sovereign nations.
'I also suspect no one will really know because they killed Saddam with anger and there are so many revisionists that hate him and want to discredit him.'
He died with a Koran in his hand yelling Allah Akabar... Good grief.
'The U.S. wants to be a christian[sic] nation, just as Iraq wants to be a muslim nation.'
Wrong.
'There were (essentially) no terrorist in Iraq before the U.S. got there.'
Wrong.
'U.S. choose to embrace methods of evil, mass kill people and take away their freedom,'
We haven't done any of that. Idiot. If you believe we have why don't you get out of the USA and fins somewhere else that is less 'evil'? You lazy islamist apologist liar.
'
It appears that many muslims and people in Iraq choose to fight and die and resist occupation for the benefit of living free '
See... Slaughtering each other isn't fighting for freedom. Strapping bombs on to retreaded women and blowing them up isn't freedom fighting. Flying aircraft full of people in to buildings full of people is not for the 'benefit of living free'. Indeed, your ideas of 'freedom' are Orwellian. There is nothing even remotely 'free' about sharia. If you disagree with that go live under it.
'The U.S. is fighting against the very thing they believe in: Self determination'
Dead wrong, we are fighting so that some people do not have to live under the brutal thumb of someone else who has been poisoned into believing god has told them that it is OK to lynch 16 year old girls for being 'disobedient' and bury people up to their waste and stone them to death for having an affair.
'I suggest you take some of your own patronizing advice and examine why people react to the constant islamist violence around the world the way they do'
Those people react the way they do for the same reason why other people react to constant christian-lead violence around the world.
Historically, most deaths in war have been caused by christian nations, not muslim nations. But, I suspect that is simply because christian nations mobilized their technological weapons superiority faster than muslim nations. For example: christian nations were the first to have nuclear weapons technology. And, of course, the first to use it. Kills a lot of people all at once, much more than a suicide bomber.
Anyways, christian or muslims, same difference. Both groups kill and kill and kill; and both groups have people in them that are peace loving.
No absolutes, no black and white.
'Don't look at it in terms of black and white.'
So somehow it's OK for him to have killed 400,000 muslims and started wars that killed a million more... See...Apologist.
'For the most part, he did such things to an equal extent that the U.S. has done such things.'
See, an Apologist. A lying one too bacause there aren't mass graves scattered all over the USA.
'No one is perfect.'
LOL... So poor Saddam, mass murderer that he was, genocide committing scum that he was, was just 'imperfect'...
'The first thing I learned after getting my Ivy league institution degree is to realize that the degree is only a start and that many people who graduate from such institutions are brilliant and many are not.'
I didn't know Madrassahs had an Ivy league but I agree that it is only a start.. Go take the blinders off and start learning. Some things are actually categorically wrong. Not everything is equivalent. A hammer doesn't equal a pillow and trying to argue so just makes you look like an idiot. Death camps are not the moral equivalent of kindergartens. There are things that are so shadeless that they might as well be black and white.
I suggest you begin your education by actually traveling in the middle east and exposing yourself to the mindset that you perpetually defend.
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