Europe News
May 9, 2007, 9:39 GMT
Milan hospital replaces crucifix with Mary to please Muslims
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Older Talkback
Are we seeing the beginning of the uniting of the anti-christs through out the world, preparing the way for him who will set himself up as god? The beginning of the persecution of the Church by the anti-church? Will anti-Christian Americans one day unite with the Muslims in this country for the purpose of removing the Christian Church and it's faith and moral teachings from our society? If this will be so, then all Christians will have to unite and become one in the same Faith, Hope, and Love in order to be able to do battle (Spiritualy) with the anti-christ and the anti-church. Let us all remember that God is Love, and whoever loves is of God. Who ever wants to do the will of God and do what is pleasing to Him, that person must Love and be good to all. Anyone who does evil in the name of God is only fooling himself. This person is only serving the evil one. For whoever does what is good is serving Jesus Christ, who did good to all and gave his life for us ON THE CROSS! When the evil one appears he will not promote love but hate, hate for each other which will culminate in violence and death. Let us Love then for Love is of God.
I see some strong pro-Mary (BVM) statements here...you aren't suggesting she is a co-redemptrix are you...if so, that is heresy!
As for the anti-Muslim rants...it really is Pavlovian. Ring the bell and say 'Muslim' and they (the anti-Muslim idiots) start snarling and drooling.
Consider this: White supremicist neo-nazi 'christians' living in the wilds of Idaho don't represent Christianity any more than suicide bombers represent Muslims. remember Oklahoma City?
Sue is so right. If the crucifix offends you, request it be removed from your room. Why make the vast majority of the population conform to your view?
Classic example of the latest trend in political correctness ie... 'I have the right not be offended by anything'
The hospital administrator must be weak and unprincipled.
A few facts to be made here courtesy of the MAD HUNGARIAN OF 1453.
1. I dont think anyone posting here today or in the last few months is from Idaho. I live in Chicago.
2. The Oklahoma bombers had nothing to do with Christianity as they were political terrorists with a political agenda. Tell me what church were they attending? I go to a repair garage to have my Toyota repaired but that does not make me a mechanic.
3. There is no such thing as a moderate muslim and I believe they fall in the same category as the Lochness Monster and the Easter Bunny.
THEY DONT EXIST AND TRY TO FIND JUST 1 MODERATE MUSLIM IN THE USA YOU BLOWHARD!!
4. Islam has a political agenda thoroughly and detailed specifically on how to overthrow all non-islamic govts and is nothing but a instruction pamphlet on SEDITION!
All the nations today that still support HUMAN SLAVERY are all based in the middle east and include Kuwait, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Oman.
What does that reality say about the state of islam?
I dont see slavery anywhere in the Christian nations of the world so your alleged arguments are valued highly as garbage.
Please move to the middle east today as you obviously have such a high regard for those racist, sexist, murderous fiends who still live with a 7th century mentality.
Sigh, you are truly misled, uninformed, uneducated and ignorant.
Muslims can try removing what is in the Physical, like Crosses or Images All
Over The World, but can Never remove the Spirit of Christ that is living in the World in the Hearts of Men and Women. Muslims responds is in Fear and Ignorance!
Christ came for All not just for Christians.
Responding In Love and Peace and Respect of Other, We Will Have Unity!
Mary
Uses
Simbols of
Love
In
Men
Spirit
like the Crosses of Christ!
Send the Islamos back to the middle-east. It is okay for the world to discriminate Catholics. Comedians and actors show constant disrespect to Catholics. Yet God forbid if we say anything disrespectful about the Jews or Islam.
This reminds of the firing of Imus yet while accepting the foul references in hip hop, rap, and whatever the crap is called today.
In this case specifically, the entity has moved to disrespect Christians while kissing Muslim butt.
The Saudi Arabian government is placing crucifixes in their hospital rooms as per patients requests. The head of the wahabi muslims says that since Saudi Arabia is fast becoming a multi-religious nation, they have to allow symbols of other religion to be represented in their community and churches to be build. Oh by the way the Saudis government is donating lare sums of money for hospitals and for other developments that contribute to the betterment of humanity!!. They are fed up of sponsoring terrorism. Fat chance!!!
I thank Martha for actually learning before talking.
I find it surprising that it escapes many the horrific rapes and genocide that Christians commited against Muslims in Bosnia. Also, during the Crusades, just as many Christians were killed in Palestine as Muslims. Thank God the Crusaders were eventually forced out.
I also find it surprising that it escapes many the forrific rapes the 'free', 'democratic' and 'civilized' americans are commiting against iraqi women, just because they feel jealous that our women are more protective of themselves.
Beheaded for not wearing veil? No Christians in the Muslim world? That really shows how ignorant most westerners are in regard to the Middle East.
Those who really understand Islam eventually embrace it, and the large number of Muslim Reverts simply scares the rest and forces them to lie to themselves and convince themselves that Islam is an enemy to justify the continued oppression against Muslims today. We have our mistakes, yes. But if you look closely at history, you'll find most of the anger in the hearts of many muslims is caused by the west. And all the real terrorism and the fake 'terrorism' in the world today stems from western Imperialism, i.e: from the Palestinian/Israeli issue, and the western support for Israel.
OH: BTW!!! For all you angry Islamophobes, the article makes no real reference that patients actually complained to have it removed. The removal was initiated by the hospital administration and simply 'welcomed' by Muslims.
What is all this bullshit about Muslims having secret agendas??!!!
Most just want to provide for themselves and their families and live and let live.
YES THERE ARE TERRORISTS! It is a growing problem! I admit!
BUT: It stems from ~~~~~~~YOUR FOREIGN POLICY~~~~~~~
It's amazing how the west, spear-headed by the USA is supporting Israel in every single aspect, both open and covert, and then you claim Muslims have a secret agenda.
Why are you surprised, when backstabbing Jews steal land from those who protected them from Christian oppression, that hate will develop in the hearts of many muslims against Jews AAANNNDDD those who support them.
BBBUUTTT: Most muslims will tell you they don't hate Jews, they hate Zionists. They don't hate americans and don't give a damn about their way of life, but oppose their government that is oppressive against the Muslim world. Muslims saw what the free and civilized world did in Iraq (and Bosnia).
It seems you always need an enemy. It was Communism, and now Islam. You won't rest until our women take off their veils and dress in bikinis and offer their bodies to the west and tell you that by deep throating them until they cry is much more sexually satisfying to them.
I've actually seen some guys get a mexican women, have her speak spanish, and have her claim that she's arab and muslim. The veil is only the first step in your secret agenda to exterminate muslims.
We are and were the true face of freedom and tolerance. And because of that we grew weak. You abuse this weakness and oppress us until we lash out. When we lash you, you film us and tell the world we are terrorists to make the world hate us to instigate more violence in the future. You are the real terrorists.
RE: Commemt on removing 'Religious Sacred Crosses'.
For someone that is not Christian to ask for a cross to be removed from their Christian Hospital room, would make sense. If they were going to remove all crosses, why not ban Hijab and other forms of religious expressions. Censoring religion, in the name of religious diversity makes no sense.
I feel removing the cross is wrong. Everyone who knows that the hospital was Christian from the very beginning, has a choice to go to a Civic Hospital. Why should a Christian be insulted by this kind of request? We as Chistians are just as devote and sensitive to such requests and to their own religious beliefs. Submitting to removing Religious Objects are very suspect in my opinion. The brotherhood of man dose not apply outside the Muslim Faith.
After all this time up until recently, Muslims around the world are demanding their religious rights. For years and possibly centuries Islam and all their sects of Islam differs from one extreme to another. Sence 911 a clearer picture has formed for me. And I do feel there's an agenda involved,a Muslim agenda. In 1981 when Pope John Paul 11 was shot and the Politics involved & the wars after that.
For these reasons alone we all should be strong in our beliefs and do what is right according to God's words and his laws and pray for Pease.
Could you go to a hospital in a muslim country and ask the people there to take items that are dear to them out of view? But the western, PC, liberal, foolish world will do that for them time and again, how sad.
If the muslems love everything muslum ,whay do they go to live in other lands. Stay where you have your culture and leave the rest of us alone. thay offer nothing and demand everything. Wake up and start throwing them out of our countrys and leave us alone.
Mary as co-redemptrix is wrongly interpreted.
It simply means that Mary co-operated WITH the Redeemer. (Mary stood by Him at the foot of the cross.) Also Mary said Fiat to God's will for her and therefore God became man. Check out websites regarding Virgin of the Globe, and Our Lady of All Nations. God could have snapped His fingers to have His Son come to earth to redeem us. However, He chose to have Jesus come to us by way of Mary; hence the popular ' to Jesus, through Mary' phrase.
The following prayer was given to Ida Peerdeman in the 1950s:
Lord, Jesus Christ,
Son of the Father, Send now your Spirit over the earth.
May the Holy Spirit dwell in the hearts of all nations,
That they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war.
May the Lady of All Nations, who once was Mary,
be our Advocate. Amen
I think that the Muslims and any other minority should respect the traditions of the country that has graciously accepted them in the same way that Westerners respect the traditions of Islam when they visit or live there.
I AM SHOCKED TO READ ABOUT THE CRUSIFIXES BEING REMOVED TO APPEASE THE MUSLIMS,IN A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY.WHOEVER IT IS IN ATHORITY,WHO HAS TAKEN THIS DECISION IS CLEARLY GUIDED BY SATAN,& NONE OTHER.NO WONDER THE WORLD IS IN SUCH A MESS WHEN DECISION MAKERS LIKE YOU ARE IN OFFICE?THE CRUCIFIX IS 'THE MOST' IMPORTANT IMAGE OF TRUE HUMANITY.YOU'LL BE DAMNED FOR THIS DECISION BY GOD,UNLESS YOU REPENT,AS YOU ARE INVARIABLY SAYING TO GOD,THAT 'GOD IS THE PROBLEM'.
After reading all your correspondence:
Martha, you just don’t get it, do you? Either that or you won’t admit it.
Why are you defending Islam? That 'religion' is sadistic and vile, oppressive to women and bent on domination of all other religions. It’s responsible for 8200+ Jihad attacks in over 60 countries! (with more every day -- thereligionofpeace.com documents them all)
When Osama bin Laden said he is ‘following in his prophet's footsteps’ he’s telling the truth, and if you had actually read the Koran & Hadith, you’d know that.
It is criminal to tolerate this hateful dogma in the civilized Western world -- it’s like inviting future 911’s every bloody day! Thanks to people like you, our grandchildren may well grow up paying the Jizyah tax!
Shame on you!
Tabari IX:69 'Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.'
Tabari VIII:38 'The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded.
8.55, 9.5, 95.5, 9.111 Infidels are worst beasts and lowest creatures and must be killed wherever they are found.
Respect for all religions is a convenient excuse when the real reason is obviously lack of integrity, fear and common sense. Why do Muslims demand equal rights only when on foreign soil and not in their own country.
Muhamed, what kind of a 'religion' threatens those who wish to leave it with death. Reminds me of the song Hotel California, 'You can check-out any time you like,But you can never leave!'
If you go to a Jewish hospital, do they remove their symbols of their faith? If you go to a Muslim hospital, do they? Why is it only the Christian...specifically Catholic institutions, who are expected to 'accomodate' other religions? Have you no conviction in your own beliefs you so called Catholics? Or have you become whining hypocrites, afraid of your own shadows, and too weak to stand for Jesus who died for you!?!?
Hypocrites.
Al, to answer your question- they are not allowed the precious civil rights in their own country that the western world enjoys but certainly feel they are entitled to. It sickens me to see everyone cater to them- It is really simple, if you don't like looking at a crucifix, don't look at it! you don't like a song on the radio turn it off, don't like a book or movie watch a different one but don't expect everyone to cater- that is just selfish and intolerant. They certainly wouldn't allow me to put up a Star of David if I was in their hospital or a cross with Jeshua on it- What arrogance to think they entitled to everyone cowing to them! It is time Europe stands up and regains control of themselves that being a democracy which means fairness to everyone but not at one groups expense. Traditionally Italy is Roman Catholic- I wouldn't go to a Middle Eastern country demanding that things be changed on my behalf- that would land me in jail if not killed. They need to aclimate into the society that they have chosen repeat chosen to be a part of- It doesn't mean giving up your ideals but don't force them on others that have so graciously allowed you entry into their country.
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