Asia-Pacific News
Mar 31, 2008, 14:11 GMT
China slams EU on Tibet statement; world protests mount (Roundup)
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Older Talkback
So Alex, if I live next to you, and I take over your property by force, abuse your family members, make them do slave work, etc., decades later, will you tell your kids and grandkids that they can't be disgruntled and upset because your property has already became mine and that they shouldn't try to kick me out?
Exactly. Didn't think so. So do some research on the treatment of Tibetans from the Chinese government. Then perhaps you'll understand more on where the Tibetan protesters are coming from.
I was born in China and lived there for first 20+ years and now live in US and have lived here for 20+ years.
I agree with Alex that this World is shaped by powerful nations. In the past 2+ centuries it was and is Western countries. They have sent troops to every corner of the earth. The crime committed by Western countries are countless. Many conflicts existed today in Africa, Mideast and other part of the world are the consequences of these events. When they learned that military alone may not maximize their gain, they will find other means such economic exploitation.
The war in Iraq is illegal by any standards other than the United States'. There are more than 60,000 people killed there (not sure how many were killed under the former dictator). The killing is still going. Americans has obligations to protect civilians there but they stayed in Green zone for their own safety because one American is probably worth 1000+ Iraqis. This war was supported by many Western governments. I know many of us in West have protested the war, but the fact is the war was supported by the government we have elected. And I have not seen many of us jumping up and down to boycott American sport events and products. And at one point American was thinking about to bomb or send troops to Iran!!!
Now coming back to China issue. We can argue back and forth whether Tibet is part of China. The fact is >90% of the countries in this planet agreed that IT IS, the same goes with the United States but not native Indian, or the Australia but not native Australian.
Does that mean I agree with the way Chinese government handle Tibet? No! Nor do I agree with the way Western countries handle the world business!
Someone has accused China been an aggressor. Please get some facts strait before making that statement. As I stated the Western nations had been, have been and are the greatest aggressor in the modern history!
Once learned some facts lets ask ourselves: Are we using different moral (or whatever) standards to measure ourselves and others?
We may argue that Western countries have learned from past and are doing better than Chinese government. I would like to get into that but am out of time.
How much do you people know about Chinese history or Tibet history? How do you know what's better for China or Tibet? All you know is what's written in those biased report or distorted news or pictures. You must be so innocent to think that media report is always objective or they don't take side. Of course everything from the communist party government is wrong to you. Of course whoever cries the loudest gets more sympathy and attention. This just proves the poor judgment of yours and how narrow-sighted you are.
Feel lucky that Indians haven’t asked for their independence or their land back. Remember when you point finger to others, the other three are pointing back to yourself!!
Google ST Circus and learn about how the Dalai Lama and his followers were trained by the CIA and provided weapons in the 1950's to help overthrow the Chinese government and help establish USA military bases in Tibet.
Then you can understand why China will always exert control over the Chinese Tibetan province.
The only way the Tibetan province of China will be allowed greater autonomous power is by cooperation and coordination with the central government of China.
Fighting a terrorist campaign of violence and murder will do the opposite. The chinese people as a whole will demand more control of the region.
This is the great mis-calculation of the Dalai Lama, because he is still supported by the CIA his followers think they can use the exertion of Western nations to gain more independence.
China remembers well the last time foreigners invaded China, Western nations , Americans and Japan tortured murdered and stole vast amounts of Chinese cultural heritage and wealth and forced them into slavery and opium houses.
These Western nations attempts at supporting terrorism and murder in China will only bring less freedom and more control over remote provinces of China.
human connectedness:
I did not say America is not free, I meant America is not the democratic Utopia that people constantly use to contrast with China. I guess plenty of people who have never been to China feel as though the country is like a prison camp that nobody wants to have any part of, and that's just not so. People over there are very supportive of their government, especially with issues such as Tibet. So Tibet is not a matter of democracy in China. What the Dalai Lama and his followers want is independence for Tibet or at least autonomy that's practically indistinguishable from independence. Well, that's not going to happen. No sovereign nation will allow that. The Dalai Lama seems intent on engaging in a test of will against the Chinese government to achieve Tibet's independence, and use violent means if needed. The sooner he realizes Tibet will always be part of China and stop inciting Tibetan violence, the better it would be for Tibetans.
Biowizard: The war in Iraq is also illegal by US standards and that's why Bush and his cronies and anyone who voted for him a 2nd time should be tried for war crimes!
HN:
First of all, I don't agree Tibet is occupied. Tibet has been part of China since the 13th century. China has plenty of legitimacy to claim Tibet that all the nations in the world recognize it.
Second, nations have lost territory or even statehood throughout history. Palestine just lost a big part of its territory to Israel and continues to lose more of the West Bank. People in western nations are perfectly OK with this arrangement because Israel is an ally.
The Chinese propaganda never stops.
That's OK, for at least we have the freedom to dispell the ignorance. China took Tibet by force in 1949, if anyone wishes to dispute this fact ...
They are arguing for their own ignorance.
Certainly Tibet is a part of China ... now. That generally happens when 40,000 troops move in, and your population is displaced by 90% Hans.
But that will not silence those who know their history. Those who cherish freedom, and those who have the audacity to speak out against the atrocities committed against the Tibetians.
Free Tibet.
The fact is that no any west government, media, and activist condemn those who killed innocent people and caused tremendous property damage,
instead that they are treated as heros. Why? Because the people they killed are Chinese? Chinese people don't have human right to live in this world?
The Chinese have every right to freedom.
Everyone has the right to freedom.
I just wish that the 85%-90% of the Chinese that approve of their current government would understand this.
I'll leave you with this:
'From a legal standpoint, Tibet has to this day not lost its statehood. It is an independent state under illegal occupation. Neither China's military invasion nor the continuing occupation has transferred the sovereignty of Tibet to China. As pointed out earlier, the Chinese government has never claimed to have acquired sovereignty over Tibet by conquest. Indeed, China recognizes that the use or threat of force (outside the exceptional circumstances provided for in the UN Charter), the imposition of an unequal treaty or the continued illegal occupation of a country can never grant an invader legal title to territory. Its claims are based solely on the alleged subjection of Tibet to a few of China's strongest foreign rulers in the thirteenth and eighteenth centuries. If other countries were to make such tenuous claims based on their imperial past, how seriously would they be taken? Are we not, in even considering the merits of China's arguments, accepting the right of powerful modern rulers to invade foreign countries in order to recreate lost empires of their ancestors?'
Peace,
Chris
one picture worth a thousand words
go to what really happened.com scroll and put in key word
'Chinese-soldiers-posing as riot-monks' Then boycott the games and the sponsors this has to stop we must not be a part of this madness
Chris,
What makes you think you know better than the majority of Chinese?
And you did not answer this, or don't you know the answer?
Chris, Once Tibet is 'freed' as you wish. Who do you propose to feed Tibetans? Who is going to put in infrastructures? Who is going to provide military support?
The idea that Chinese soldiers dressed up as Tibetans and rioted and murdered is the most laughable lie to yet come from the Dalai Lama's group.
If they want to continue their lies they really have to do much better than that.
LOL
Oppressing Jews was popular in Germany.
Communism is a western philosophy, not an eastern one.
China is moving in its own people to try to displace Tibetans. Anyone in the world would be very angry over this. Communism is pretty much against religion. Any religious person would also be very angry over this.
The exiled government is not calling for independence from China, they want autonomy over their affairs. Wouldn't you if your people were being displaced? China has also dumbed toxic sludge from America up there. The investments China has made in Tibet are completely suspect, and very likely done to entice the Han to move to Tibet.
The Himalayans provide water to hundreds of millions of people, so it is going to become a very strategic point in the coming era of water shortage.
From what the rest of the world can see, the Chinese were very brutal in Tibet and other parts that it has 'reclaimed'. We will not support China because of this. In the end Communist China will fall, the same as the USSR. A democratic and free China will emerge, and hopefully they will not go down the same route as western powers, who are destroying the world through capitalism.
The Tibetans and Chinese deserve better than what Communist China has given them. China was once the home of the greatest craftsmen in the world. Now they create low quality items. Is this progress?
Tibet has been a province of China for all of modern history. It was neither occupied by force or by illegal means. Every nation on earth understands and recognizes that Tibet is part of China.
The Chinese did not use military force in Tibet until the 1950's after the Dalai Lama with the CIA provided weapons, explosives and training started to use terrorist actions to overthrow the Chinese government and create a place for USA military bases in China. Of course the Dalai Lama fled in 1959 after Americans would not formally enter into his war against Chinese authorities.
Look at the maps of China over the last several centuries that can be found at newschecker.blogspot.com and you will understand that the statements trying to rewrite history - that Tibet was ever an independent nation is a lie.
@ Alex:
Yes, I agree that Tibet is not occupied...not legally. China having a military presence there means that they are in that country illegally, just like the U.S. and Britain in Iraq.
Also, I agree with you that throughout history, nations have lost territories, but many times, new nations are developed from them. Just because Tibet was part of the Chinese empire back in the 13th century doesn't give the current China rights to reclaim lost territory. This is like saying Russia should re-invade a country that was part of the Soviet Union to reclaim their lost land.
As far as the world was concerned, before the Chinese re-invasion, Tibet was a recognized independent nation. When the Chinese attacked, Tibet didn't put up much of a resistance either because they had no organized military. They were a peaceful country. The fact that China invaded an almost unarmed country proves its nature of aggression and shows its cowardliness that should be condemned by the rest of the world.
Comparing the American occupation of Iraq to the Chinese province of Tibet is nonsensical. Like saying Americans are occupying California.
While I agree that the American occupation of Iraq is not only stupid waste of Americans taxpayer money and we should remove our military from Iraq as soon as possible and Americans should be protesting this occupation - it is nothing like what is going on in the Chinese province of Tibet.
Tibet has and always will be a province of China. It is not occupied by force and it was not conquered by force. The borders of China and India and Nepal are geographical borders. The Himalayan mountains separate these countries very much like the Atlantic Ocean separates America from Europe.
The Chinese internationally recognized borders are a natural border and helps keep harmony within the country of China by being a military obstacle to invasion by foreign countries. China has been invaded by foreign countries looking to enslave the Chinese people and steal the wealth of the nation many times in history. Hence China is very sensitive to foreign involvement in internal affairs and intends to maintain sovereign rights over all of China, to protect the people of China, including those in the province of Tibet.
I'm sorry Zephon...but where are you getting your facts from? facts claiming that Tibet was a province of China? That is just absurd. Your comparison between China's occupation in Tibet and California being a part of the U.S. is laughable and makes absolutely no sense. I'm not going to even bother explaining how ridiculous that comparison was.
If you think that Chinese occupation of Tibet was not without force and abuse, then please do some actual research from credible sources rather than just making blunt statements.
I agree that the Chinese have the right to handle internal affairs without interference from outside forces, but this is beyond internal affairs because it involves another country...and yes Tibet IS a country...NOT a Chinese province as the Chinese government (and you) believe. So China deserves to be scrutinized by the rest of the world for their affairs with Tibet.
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