Movies Reviews
Movie Review: Sicko
By Anne Brodie Jun 27, 2007, 13:23 GMT
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Michael Moore is a very succesful propagandist and comic. His films are always entertaining and usually tap into a 'hot button' controversial topic at the time. However, he rearranges, obliterates and changes so many facts that his material needs to be regarded as pure entertainment, not a documentary or work of non-fiction. For example, this particular movie highlights the wonderful availability of adequate health care for everyone in Cuba. Unfortuantely for the Cubans, this is not the case. Ancedotal evidence proves this by the sheer number of Cubans trying to come to America.
American health care is expensive and has horrible flaws; however, Canada, England and Cuba are not true utopian socities where perfect health care is available to all. I can tell when someone is trying to sell me something, and Michael Moore does a very convincing job, but I am not buying.
the problem with Moore is that he manipulates the data. For example he makes a major point that people in other countries live longer than in the US, presumely because of lack of health care.
More likely because like Mr. Moore we eat too much, get no exercise, smoke and drink to excess. National health care will do nothing for these ills.
Why would I want a health care system with the quality of public education, the efficiency of the postal service and the compassion of the IRS.
He discounts waiting times in countries with Socialized medicine, these are in fact quite real.
Above all Moore is an expert at Propaganda.
I think it is interesting that so many people are buying into this propaganda and not looking at some of the possible causes of why our health care system is the way it is. First of all, nationalized health care in France takes over 50% from every pay check you receive. You think everyone in the US is going to be ok with that? Second of all, perhaps the costs of hospitals that is parlayed onto every day people could be caused by the thousands of illegal immigrants that consistently receive care in the US. Maybe it's the individuals who are receiving health care with no insurance. I used to buy into the fact that it was so impossible to get insurance and what were we doing for these people...then I got to the real world. I graduated college with thousands of dollars in debt and a VERY mediocre job and I was still able to get independant coverage. Overall I think Moore likes to highlight what he sees as problems and not really explore ALL the possible causes, only the ones he believes are legitimate. Overall this is a problem with Americans on the whole...we believe what we're told. No matter what your political ties may be, ALWAYS question the 'news'. Everything is told from a point of view now and you'll only be hurting yourself if you don't look into the deeper causes of why things are being said the way they are.
America is kept aloft by dissent, so god bless Mr. Moore. I am constantly amused at the people who attack Moore as anti-America, when you consider the similar roles played by Jefferson, Franklin and the founding fathers. Our government, and especially the current administration, is rife with propagandists and media manipulators. Why do people continue to forgive the Bush administration for the outright lies told by Cheney, yet criticize Moore for his media tactics? Are you really more frightened by a film director or the group of ill-advised, uninformed, morally bankrupt megalomaniacs who comprise our executive branch? How far backwards are you willing to bend to make excuses for this murderous regime? I have to laugh when I hear conservatives brand Moore or the media as anti-American. The continued support of Bush and his cronies is anti-American.
WHAT KIND OF AN IDIOT WOULD SAY THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS THE BEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD SURE! IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. MICHAEL MOORE BRINGS OUT THE SELFISHNESS OF THIS COUNTRY AND YOU MORONS DONT LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT IT
I'm just happy the right wing doesn't use propaganda - only mr. moore does it seams.
Talk about puppy-love. Anne definitely has the hots for Moore and certainly wouldn't allow objective considerations come into play when dropping to her knees to review this.
Good lord, lady ...
America may not be the best place in the world to live, but its still better than alot of places. What's great about America is that we have the opportunity to talk about how bad it does or doesn't suck to live here. America does not have the perfect health care system but we did get breaks other places- like property taxes. Apparently, though, Americans will attack anything just to be complaining. If it was reversed we would be griping about property taxes and would 'gladly pay less tax for health care for the prices to go down.'
Moore's film may be touching, but that's about it. In traditional
Michael Moore style, he takes a few extreme health care system
'failings' (like the people being rejected for being too thin) and
implies that this is the norm. I noticed that he didn't give us any
figures on the number of people who are routinely rejected because
they are too thin.
But in this case, we can probably forgive his assault on
reason. Health care is important! This is an issue that pits thousands
of poor, sick children against the billion dollar insurance industry!
A national program is obviously needed to ensure that they receive the
best care possible. For this, Moore turns to Europe's nationalized
health care systems, which replaces privatization (prioritization
based on what someone is willing to pay) with prioritization based on
'preceived need.'
Moore shows us Annette Noe, an American child which does not receive a
second ear implant because of a callous insurance company. When Moore
complains, the insurance company grants the operation, fearing bad
publicity. After all, bad publicity affects the bottom line. Moore
does not mention (or maybe he doesn't know about) the strikingly
similar case of four-year-old Elias Dillner, who after being fitted
with his first implant, was told by the Swedish government that the
second operation could not be 'prioritized.' The family would 'need to
wait.' They could not even opt to pay the 40K operation fee themselves
because in the words of Swedish legislator Robert Uitto 'People
shouldn't, on principle, be allowed to purchase care in the public
system.'
Forgive us Michael Moore. After seeing the inefficient systems that
the US government uses to provide education, Social Security, and
military security, we Americans are a bit skeptical when we are told
that health care is somehow a task that the public sector is
overqualified to provide. The sooner we get fools like Moore out of
the debate on health care, the sooner we can have an honest discussion
on how to make the system more efficient, not less. Ironically, Moore
himself hints at the first step. Let's stop giving the officials in
Washington so much control over how we treat ourselves. Let's take
away the power that billion dollar companies and their lobbies are
trying to buy with million dollar campaign contributions. This will
open up the playing field for smaller insurance companies to enter the
market.
The ear implant example used in this comment was taken from
www.reason.com/news/show/120998.html
Anyone that puts down Moore's Sicko is (1) making money in some way off of sick people in this country, (2) being paid to spread lies by others who are making money off of sick people in this country, or (3) just down right ignorant.
'
HardOnJun 27th, 2007 - 14:55:20
I'm just happy the right wing doesn't use propaganda - only mr. moore does it seams.
'
hahahAHAHHAHAHAhahahaHAHa idiot...
( What's great about America is that we have the opportunity to talk about how bad it does or doesn't suck to live here )
Well, la de friggin da. How nice it is to have that 'freedom' to 'talk about it' when a large cross-section of our country have to tell their kids they cannot go see a dentist because the government sees fit to ignore the population's health care needs. It's very 'theraputic' to be able to 'talk about how our country does or does not suck' whilst we watch our children's teeth rotting in their heads. God bless America for allowing us to 'talk about it'.
JAY (as an example among others):
1) You say Moore is a propagandist. Ok: do you know some department of politics that isn't propagandistic? If not, why say that? Is there relevant intellectual content in it, or are you just expressing an attitude toward Moore based on reasons other than his using propaganda techniques (so far as he does)? Then why not just state your real reasons directly? (Your real reasons *can't* be about 'propaganda'.)
2) You say ['...he rearranges, obliterates and changes so many facts that his material needs to be regarded as pure entertainment, not a documentary or work of non-fiction']. 'Pure' entertainment? Are you really qualified -- both in knowledge and in fairness -- to say that there's NO useful information in it, that the picture Moore presents doesn't resemble reality? C'mon!
3) You say that 'Ancedotal evidence proves...by the sheer number of Cubans trying to come to America' that Moore's depiction of 'the wonderful availability of adequate health care for everyone in Cuba' is false.
(a) 'Anecdotal'???
(b)If you cared to make an honest argument, you wouldn't need to take a course in Logic to see the illogic of your assertion. There can be many reasons people want to leave Cuba. NOTHING is 'proven' about Cuba's health care system by the fact that some Cubans try to escape. I interviewed a number of people in Cuba, some who did want to escape (or had tried), others who didn't. Among the things Cubans expressed dissatisfaction with, NONE mentioned Health Care as a problem (and EVERY SINGLE ONE mentioned 'el bloqueo' - the blockade, or 'sanctions' - as an evil).
(c) I escaped America and now live in England. The reason? I needed surgery on my knee, which I couldn't get as one of 47 million uninsured Americans. (There's an anecdote for ya!).
4) Logic again: that 'Canada, England and Cuba are not true utopian socities where perfect health care is available to all' is no argument whatsoever against Moore or his movie. Do you see that?
To whoever said that they take half your paycheque in France - this isn't true. Income tax is variable rate that runs between 10% and just under 50% depending on earnings.
Hey Carl, I'd bet those a lot of those indigent kids you speak of have color televisions and cell phones. It's all a matter of priorities pal!
NGM, c'mon, man. Touching? The documentary is meant to exploit the U.S. Health Care system. It can only outline just a few major failings (out of the countless) in our system because it is only a two hour program. Any longer than that and, yes, the entertainment value would deminish.
I like your stance but I think you give about just as much reason to not believe him as he does to believe him, except, being that Moore is a professional filmmaker, he is slightly more compelling. Making health care a government system is our only answer.
'... This will open up the playing field for smaller insurance companies to enter the market.' I'm sorry but this is only a temporary solution. These insurance companies will simply gain enough capital and steam to turn into larger companies and, again, focus on the bottom line. There is no end in sight as long as these private companies determine who gets and does not get medical treatment. No private insurance company is going to care for the greater good of mankind over their 401k. It's just not going to happen.
'The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.' -Thomas Jefferson
An indigent kid with an iPod or other electronic device does not equal a priority against health insurance. If their parents don't get coverage through work, the health insurance costs the equivalent of that iPod...per month. If they can even get coverage -- what if they have a pre-existing condition (even if you were covered by another company's health insurance you can be denied coverage with a new company), then it's two iPods. So unless they get an electronic device a month, it's hardly a priority.
Further, health care in this country works great if you have it provided by your company. This isn't a problem just for poor families -- think about graduate students, freelancers, artists, etc who might not be funded through a company. Insurance will cost a few hundred a month and then, again, it depends on whether it's offered.
Yet, when I was in Scotland for six months on a student exchange, I received regular medicine for my asthma, was diagnosed properly for that condition & didn't have to have an emergency room visit for my injured hand -- the 24 hour clinic cleaned the wound and gave me stitches. For free. Despite the fact I never paid taxes to Great Britain.
Yes, people had horror stories, but so do I. I'd much rather have everyone insured and see no difference than have a system where only the wealthy and well-employed can have horror stories.
Personally, I would rather see this debate about our education system. I think my tax dollars would be better spent educating someone.
Earlier, someone said SICKO was more fiction than fact. As someone who worked eight years as a claims analyst (aka medical adjuster) for Blue Cross Blue Shield carriers in two states ... and worked two more years in accounting for two medical product suppliers ... my take is that the film is more fact than fiction. And yes, I've seen the film (a friend shared their bootleg copy with me).
What is it within our culture that allows us to think that private companies and stockholders have some sort of right to profit off of people's medical misfortunes (or profit off the fears people have of them)?
I am a believer in universal health care. But this belief didn't come about through browbeating by any liberal wacko. It came about by witnessing the abuses of privatized medicine from the inside ... and I sleep much better at night, knowing I'm no longer a part of this abusive system.
However, I will pass on one word of advice to those forced to live under this barbaric unfeeling system. If you EVER feel that a claim is denied unfairly, send a letter to your insurance company THREATENING to file a formal complaint with your state insurance commissioner. To most medical insurance companies, the mere threat of insurance commissioner involvement is enough to get a more positive result on a claim. Companies receiving a certain number of complaints, even if some of them have no merit, can expect an unannounced AUDIT in their future. I experienced one of them. Basically, IC auditors walked into the office and FROZE all claims processing activity until they reviewed a representative percentage of claims. And if a certain percentage of those claims show irregularities, the total percentage to be examined by auditors will increase. In our case, we lucked out ... but were ultimately required to pay the denied claim complained about.
In short, an IC audit automatically means overtime for claims analysts once the audit is complete. And the amount of overtime depends upon how many claims go through the audit process ... which depends upon the number of payment irregularities found. And, if the IC auditors find a significant percentage of claims with payment irregularities, they can and will PULL THE LICENSE to do business in the state until company representatives show cause why it should be restored ... in front of a state review board that might not meet for months.
P.S. While working for my first Blue Cross Blue Shield carrier, one client sent a letter threatening to complain to the state IC. And even though the claim's nonpayment was due to the procedure being experimental, the company president authorized an immediate payment (six-figures) rather than risk an IC audit. That's how much IC audits are feared.
First of all, let me tell you Politics have gotten to the point that the politicians are about themselves and there political careers then they are about the people now. I don’t care if you are Republican , Democrat or whoever, for the most part they put up stuff saying what they will do for the people and it is all just about them getting into office.
Conservative or Liberal, Democrat or Republican no matter what side you want to believe has clean hands, they have all made themselves dirty in this 'Murderous Regime', some are just better at hiding it, but wait, if I remember correctly this is about healthcare and not the current regime. Right now it should not be about finger pointing, which all political parties are good at doing, but about stepping up fixing what is broke, our healthcare system. Our healthcare system is broke, but Michael Moore paints Social healthcare, another broken system as the way to go. Michael won’t have to worry about it from all the money he makes he will be able to afford private doctors on this system. I know several people from England and Canada and they will tell you how bad it is even though it is free (not really because most will have to pay up the wazoo in taxes) in to have to wait to get something taken care of that could take weeks to a month to it get done there and here a couple of days. Now if you have the cash and can afford it you can go see a private doctor and take care of it in the same time frame as maybe here in the United States. I am sure at some point if Social Medicine was put in place here that would get corrupt and the wealthy would end up paying the doctors to get in front of the line. Also the most of the good quality doctors would end up going to private practices that cost a lot of money and the mediocre to poor doctors will probably end up in the Social care system. Also another thing to look at is right now my wife is unemployed and I am the only provider. Things are a little bit tight on the cash flow. On a Social healthcare system right now I would have to pay out $100’s of dollars more on healthcare for someone else which I cannot afford to do.
What needs to be done is to find a way to fix our current health system without switching to Social medicine. To eliminate how much control or say the insurance companies have over what you can or cannot be treated for based on what is needed. Insurance companies are greedy and the thing that drives them is the fact that some of them are publicly traded on the Stock Market. The Board of directors and the Executives and the likes are trying to squeeze that extra profit out you. What for, the share holders and their own pocket books. What incentive is there for a company whose focus is on the profitability of the company for themselves and the stockholders when they should be more focused on the health of their members? Other words making Insurance providers privately held might be a good start.
Another thing that needs to be looked at is the companies that over charge for care. Not mentioning any names and here is an example. My son had to be flown to a hospital 2 hours away for an emergency. That flight on a helicopter was billed at $23,000 and some change. That flight should have only cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $7,000 and some change. This was more then 3 times the cost of what it should be. You can charter state of the art helicopters for around $1000/hr so 2 hours, which covers cost of fuel and pilot, which is $2000 for the one way flight, $4,000 for a 2 way flight and I have left 32000 to cover the cost of the flight/ground crew and equipment. These helicopters are probably doing in the neighborhood of 3-5 flights a day easily. That is a stockpile of money a day for just one day’s use of the helicopter.
I am sure there are more things to point out here, but this was just a couple of examples.
Any ways this is just my 2 cents worth.
I agree with you Xan.
It amazing to read all the individuals defending the indefensible. How bad does it have to get before you can swallow your pride and admit that maybe, just maybe, Moore has a valid point?
He is accused of being a propagandist, of being pure entertainment. These are specious arguments that bring nothing to the table. All they show is the willingness of the writers to believe right-wing anti-Moore bias that has been spewed at them ad-infinitum ad-nauseam by the exceedingly non-objective conservative blogs they frequent that never will forgive Moore for being right about Bush and the failed war in Iraq.
Fortunately for the majority of us who see a real need for change, Moore lets the anecdotes in his documentary speak for themselves. Sure he picks & chooses what he puts on the screen, but that's called EDITING. It's part of the process of putting together a good documentary, choosing the footage that supports the point you are making. Attacking this is ridiculous.
How can you argue that having to leave one of your fingers in a landfill because you can't afford to re-attach it is a good thing? Or that watching your daughter go into cardiac shock and die because you brought her to the wrong hospital is acceptable, etc...? These abuses are just the tip of the iceberg.
I see very few ways to defend the heartless attitudes of the health care industry that do not rely on appealing to the base instincts of those who are still carrying cold war like fears of communism and socialism. I can see the attacks already. Moore is a propagandist that hates America because he went to Cuba & France & advocates a socialistic health care system. That's pretty much the tenor of the negative criticism I've seen so far - yawn.
These attacks might have worked ten years ago. I get the impression that enough Americans have grown up - matured - that they won't fall for the logical fallacies trundled out as arguments anymore.
Now if we can just get the corrupt politicians on board - but that's another story.
The onlt thing that is a bigger joke than Moore are the the idiots that actually go and pay to see his films. Every one of them is full of lies and half truths. Each and every one he has done has been shown to contain only about 25% truth and the rest his own made up views. Dont be a fool, research it for yourself. This is not my view it is based on fact, something that Moore generally tries not to use. I personally have seen 2 of his films(neither which I paid to see) and they were pretty bad, and I have yet to find 1 person that has liked any of his work. But his job is done, by appealling to the totally unimformed person, he gets some viewers. What a sorry excuse for a man, someone more needing could use the air he is wasting.
It seems hard to believe, France, Germany, England,all have better healthcare outcomes than the US healthcare system. But the evidence is in, the facts indisputable, and like global warming they just don't fit the conservative agenda. Facts, are facts,however and the truth will find a way out. Moore is a story teller and good stories often tell us more about the 'truth' than all the political rhetoric in the world.
Canadian Healthcare, the Real Story.
In Calgary (and that's the richest of Canadian cities), doctors aren't taking new patients. period. 4 hour wait in a walk-in clinic to get a dose of antibiotics. Mr. Moore seems to think that going out of our country to get anecdotes presents a good argument because the average American isn't aware of how dreadful state-sponsored health care is in countries like Cuba and Canada. I nearly lost my leg in California and my doctor friends (yes, plural, I have many) in Canada said 'wow, you were lucky, they would have just amputated in Canada'. So I don't know where this $60K finger story comes from, maybe $60K to save the finger in the US, only $15 copay for an amputation in Canada?
Bottom line, not to sound trite, is 'you get what you pay for' and remember, 'the grass is not greener on the other side'.
If you dont have health insurance get a job and get some. Take responsibility for yourself and quite wanting everything given to you. I was raised to do for myself, and if people would put as much effort into getting a job and insurance that they do bitching, we would not even be having this conversation.
I'm a physician. Our system in this country is a total disaster. Insurance companies make billions, while everyone else gets screwed.
However the view that other countries are better is distorted. Our medical system props up the rest of the world through research, development, pharmaceuticals and training.
Our system is being bled dry by the ambulance chasing attorneys (how many ads do you see asking if you've ever taken x drug, please call so we can sue for you, etc), and claim denying insurance companies.
unfortunately the government is run by professional politicians who are beholden to trial lawyers and insurance companies. nothing is going to change until the whole system implodes, which is already happening to some degree but will mushroom cloud probably around 2015 or so.
I want out as soon as I can possibly get out
I recently lost my job and my health insurance, what did I do I went and bought a BlueCross policy. Problem solved, all I did was get 2 part time jobs to cover the cost. You dont hear me crying waiting for a hand out I stepped up and took control. Most of the peolpe who are bitching are too lazy to do for themselves they expect handouts.
A few comments about an earlier post:
'America is kept aloft by dissent, so god bless Mr. Moore.'
In general, I agree with your comment about dissent. Dissent, like all free speech, brings opinions and facts to the public. A better informed public presumably is better able to participate in a well functioning democracy. Does anyone think that Mr. Moore's films help educate the public? As several others have already noted, many of his 'facts' are presented out of context to deliberately mislead the audience. I'm not sure I see the value in that. Even if you agree with his basic political stance, I'm sure you would agree that anyone who watches this movie (or any other politically motivated film) should research the issue and check the facts. I think that's what a lot of critics here are trying to say: Just don't take the movie as a documentary; do your own research.
'I am constantly amused at the people who attack Moore as anti-America, when you consider the similar roles played by Jefferson, Franklin and the founding fathers.'
I think comparing Moore with the founding fathers is a bit silly. The founding fathers took an active role in creating a new nation and were held accountable for the ultimate results of the personal risks they took. We celebrate the founding fathers because the nation they built was successful and survived. Had they failed, we wouldn't celebrate their 'dissent'. If you must make a comparison between Moore and prominent 'dissenting' historical figures, comparing him with the leaders of the Southern Confederacy, who “dissented” in their attempt to hold on to slavery, would be no more or less appropriate.
We need to evaluate Moore’s ideas over the long term before we brand him a founding father or a traitor. We have had the most time to evaluate the wisdom of his first major film, Roger & Me, which was released in 1989. While most of the film tried to elicit an emotional anti-capitalist stance, what was Moore’s ultimate policy objective? Was he not arguing, essentially, that the United States government/industry/society should protect the domestic auto industry? Moore’s advice was NOT followed and almost twenty years later we have a bit more perspective on this issue. Since 1989, what has been the comparative success of the free U.S. and U.K. economies vs. other more protectionist economies? Has protectionism in more socialist countries such as Germany and France lead to higher employment or happiness? I’ll let you do the research on that.
“Our government, and especially the current administration, is rife with propagandists and media manipulators. Why do people continue to forgive the Bush administration for the outright lies told by Cheney, yet criticize Moore for his media tactics? Are you really more frightened by a film director or the group of ill-advised, uninformed, morally bankrupt megalomaniacs who comprise our executive branch? How far backwards are you willing to bend to make excuses for this murderous regime?”
Isn’t the Bush Administration’s stance just valuable “dissent” against the liberal majority? ;) OK…I’m just teasing you on that one. The problem with your argument is that it has nothing to do with Moore. Whether or not the Bush Administration also manipulates info, does not in any way make Moore’s practices any better. Attacking the opposition in a debate doesn’t make your argument any more logical. This comment also applies to many other conservative writers on this string who bash “liberals” without actually commenting on the content of the argument.
Moore is such a fat ass loser anyone who listens to him needs to get half a brain and think for themself.
You can always tell how effective an opponent of the rightwing is by the impotent rage he/she provokes in the mob of dittoheads. Moore repeatedly leads the charges, defines the debates, and takes the most flak. He should get a medal, once an honest admin is back in the White House.
Moore fans, don't think for a second that the government in its current state is any different from a corporation. The American gov't is a bureaucracy. Seriously, do you think that a group that will buy (metaphorically) golden toilets will put your money (do I hear taxes?!!) to any better use than an insurance agency? We're still in the clutches of a failing Social Security system, one that will guarantee that my generation will have troubled times. Think back to the Reagan years, when he gave his famous 'A Time for Choosing' speech, in this case relating to poverty. He said, 'We're spending 45 billion dollars on welfare. Now do a little arithmetic, and you'll find that if we divided the 45 billion dollars up equally among those 9 million poor families, we'd be able to give each family 4,600 dollars a year. And this added to their present income should eliminate poverty. Direct aid to the poor, however, is only running only about 600 dollars per family. It would seem that someplace there must be some overhead.' (www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/ronaldreaganatimeforchoosing.htm) Do you want that kind of overhead for you health coverage?
This is not to say that insurance companies are any better. What it IS to say, is that generalized socialist-style coverage is not going to work any better than the current system. I notice that most of you ranting, on both sides, provide little evidence to support your claims (no, using Moore's film doesn't count as evidence. Do some actual research yourselves). How about you all sit down, take a chill pill, do some research, and come up with an objective list of pros and cons.
Whoever said we should be spending more time on education, I salute you. That is where the future lies.
( Hey Carl, I'd bet those a lot of those indigent kids you speak of have color televisions and cell phones. It's all a matter of priorities pal! )
So, now you would begrudge the ;indigent family' a used $100 color TV, or a 'pay as you go' cell-phone (which is usually cheaper than regular phone service, that's why more and more poor people use them rather than the 'traditional' phone service). Hmmmm...I wonder how much dental care 'indigent people' could purchase with that $100 they spent on a used color TV. I wonder how much that $100 would stretch for the dental care for a family of FIVE children ? And who says these are 'indigent' people ?
When my dad was laid off from the Tel. Company many years ago, he lost his health insurance as well, and any job he could pick up in the latter part of his working life never offered any. Or refused to. So, although not 'indigent', he in no way could afford health insurance premiums for his rather large family. And yes, he had a used color TV, and yes, he had phone service. Bad bad man for DARING to provide phone service and a used $100 color TV for his family.
The EXACT same situation faces many Americans today (although thankfully not myself). So, keep your 'priorities' to yourself, 'pal' !
Right ON!!!!
Mr. Moore has hit the nail on the head. The United States of America, the most powerful country in the world sends its poor and down trodden to skid row in a cab. Makes you proud to be an American doesn't it?
And yes I have the right to criticize; I am a voting disabled veteran. Who has more of a right? I do not believe in socialism but I do not believe that giving tax breaks to the filthy rich will help the economy and make it better for anyone other than the filthy rich. I believe that if everyone were taxed evenly that maybe a national insurance, one run by the people, for the people, instead of for profit could be managed. Then by using good old capitalism and buying medicines from the company that gave us the best deal, like Canada and England do, we could drive down the price of medice.
Gosh Mike, if a disabled Viet Nam veteran who never finished college can come of with ideas like this after watching a bootlegged copy of your movie, maybe someone we vote for with a real education will do what we pay them for.
Riiight!
Try to get an appointment with a specialist in America. My experience is that it takes 6-8 weeks. Try to get a non-emergency appointment with your primary- 4 weeks. So if you have a non-emergency condition, you have to wait 10-12 weeks to determine if you need a procedure. THEN you have to wait for the specialist to be free to do the operation.
We have plenty of waiting here too.
We also have the problem of having to juggle doctors as they go onto and off of our HMO's list of providers.
It's just like socialized healthcare, only twice the cost and 50 million aren't covered.
I went to the ER on a trip to England. I was seen in 20 minutes, filled out one piece of paper, and was charged nothing.
WOW! Where do I even begin? I think that health care in America needs help and a serious revamp. I think anyone who says that the poor should get a job to get health care is riduculous since there are a lot of companies that still don't offer health care or it is too expensive even w/ a job to get it when you are a single parent on one income, food comes first! And to say that people should give up TV's or cell phones, it's not their fault that America has out priced the health care coverage and they adverstise like it is going out of style for cell phones and make having a cell phone more affordable than anything else. I think those that think they are better than everyone else who doesn't have health care should be ashamed of themselves. Think of the elders in your life and what they have to go through to get meds. My grandmother God rest her soul had to pick and choose which scripts to get each month based on her fixed income and what she deemed to be most important. So it's not all about the poor it is also about the elderly who truly can't do anything to help themselves and they were valued contributing memebers of society at one point or another and our Government, the Good Ol' US of A can't take care of these people? Give me a Break!
Moore does bring up good points on an important issue but he also manipulates data and that makes him hard to trust. Moore is not anti-American but he's also not a fan of 'facts' when they don't support his argument. Some would argue that this is good documentary film-making but I would say that it damages his overall credibility. Ultimately, he has an agenda and nothing, not even facts, are going to change his mind. Kind of like this review...
Government-run health care is the perfect model for government-run auto care! We’ll make employer-paid auto insurance premiums tax-deductible — just like health insurance! Consider how much money can be saved instead of buying from the insurance company directly. Such a discount will be popular, and drivers will start demanding legislation to fix problems arising from changing jobs. I also say that we drivers demand low-deductible, high-premium policies covering everything from scheduled inspections, oil changes and tire rotations, which will be mandated by the government. Insulated from true costs, we can then splurge on services, which will make insurance costs skyrocket and cause waiting lists a mile long! YAY!
These increased costs will, of course, leave many drivers unable to afford automobile insurance. To “alleviate” this crisis, we can simply introduce two new government products: Autocare for older car owners and Autocaid for low-income drivers! Many workers will choose Autocaid for their cars because it will be less expensive than insurance bought through the employer! Never mind that tax rates increase – we can all sacrifice for the good of all, even if tax rates reach 50%.
As voters, we can then demand that legislation be passed that mandates that all insurance policies cover routine maintenance and that all cars have to be as safe as a Hummer. Sure, costs will explode and thousands will lack transportation, but who cares? It temporarily satisfies the special interest groups who always want to gripe about auto care and allows them to demonize the opposition as “anti-safety.”
Also remember that a teen who drag races a muscle car will also be able to buy insurance — right from the scene of his accident! After all, it would be terribly inhumane and unfair if he couldn’t. He should also have to pay the same low premium as a soccer mom for her minivan.
Now that government is paying the costs, we can force car mechanics to do what we want through endless legislation, too! Red tape will strangle their profession of car-fixing wisdom, draining joy from their careers and driving them to other professions. They will be forced to accept payment from either Autocaid, Autocare, or your insurance company. Forget about paying the costs out of pocket. They are now too high to be paid that way, and anyway, the government forbids it.
Oh, also, since the government is now going to take care of your auto needs, whether you like it or not, then it certainly is reasonable for the government to control where it is you are and aren’t allowed to drive to. After all, if my tax dollars are going to pay for your auto expenses then you shouldn’t be allowed to just take your car and just go wherever you want with it. You better have something important to do!
Gee, if only government would just fix the average American’s auto-related problems like they have everything else. Then we could reign in a new era of utter incompetence! The average American would save a lot of money, too! Just look at Canada where the average Canadian pays far less than we do in income taxes! If only we could get more ‘free’ services from our government like the Canadians do! What is wrong with us Americans not letting our government ‘fix’ everything?
I want ‘free’ healthcare and ‘free’ autocare – sign me up! What is that, you say? I’m going to be signed up anyway, whether I like it or not?
Folks – doesn’t it seem odd to you that you can afford car and homeowner’s insurance, both largely free systems that work great, while the healthcare industry is a mess? Health care is a mess because there has been tons of government force injected into everything for over close to 70 years. The process outlined above is not a joke. This is exactly what happened with healthcare beginning post WWII. Government has so long been a part of almost everything in this country that people cannot think of a healthcare system without government interventions. They can’t think of anything without government interventions. As one previous commenter said, “Can’t the US government take care of it’s people?” This is very telling, because until FDR took office, it was not the job of government to “take care” of anyone.
No one tells you where you can buy car insurance, nor are there endless government mandates telling insurance companies what they must include in your policy or telling you what type of deductible you have to pay, thus increasing your costs dramatically. Neither are there endless government restrictions telling car mechanics how to fix your car to comply with the 130,000 pages of regulations. (Think I'm kidding? That's how many pages of rules there are for Medicare. No one knows them. No one can read them. No one can LIFT them.) You pay a low premium, you have an accident, the insurance pays for it – while you pay a deductible of your choice, usually $250 or $500. If you don’t like their terms or rates you find a new insurance company, not cry for government to solve your problem. Wouldn’t it be great if health care were so simple? It could be. Critics of healthcare blame insurance companies for health care costs. The government pays over 60% of healthcare costs through Medicaid and Medicare. This is up from 10% government spending since the 1940s!!! Insurance is not the problem. All of these people moving to the government system reduces the profit for insurance companies, making them raise their rates and fail to take on new, risky customers. The tales that Michale Moore and other commenters here tell about people not being taken on by insurance companies, and the crap that insurance companies pull on us all are VERY true and it IS a problem, but most people can’t understand what is causing it because they either don’t understand basic economics or can’t look back farther than a decade. When you have a competitor (the gov't) taking customers away from you and artificially able to absorb these costs by simply raising taxes, it becomes almost impossible for you to make money, so what do you do? You refuse claims and you refuse risky customers.
There are huge problems with the healthcare industry, but the answer is not more government controls. The answer to the health care crisis, and every developed country has a crisis, not just the US, is something NO country has today: a mostly free, privatized system. Let competition – true competition where companies WANT your business and don’t turn you away, spring up among insurance companies to pay for health care, not just for allopatric and osteopathic care but also for every kind of medical care, including homeopathic and naturopathic. And let’s unchain doctors and nurses from endless rules and regulations that are supposedly for safety but do nothing but increase costs for everyone.
The claim that medicine is governed by a 'free-market' is ridiculous. We live in a mixed economy. Those who claim that existing problems are the result of what little freedom is left are grossly misdiagnosing the problem. The problem is political interference in medicine. The cure is respect for the right of doctors and patients to deal as traders without having to worry about government interference in medicine and the insurance industry.
Oh, re: life expectancies in other countries. It does not correlate well with the type of healthcare system, but rather, diet and physical activity. Ask yourself why Singaporeans have 4 years greater lifespan than Americans. It could be that their system is far more privatized than the American one – or perhaps the problem is just that Americans have no idea how to eat right, they drive everywhere, and they get no exercise - and are thus as fat as Michael Moore and want someone else to pay for their healthcare.
Moore is a well funded lapdog of the fanatical left. Anyone who thinks that the Cuban, British, or Canadian systems will save lives in this country needs serious phychiatric help. Moore's arguments and criticisms are so seriously flawed, they cannot be dignified with a response.
Lobbyists make pretty good well-funded lapdogs, too, for the insurance industry. The difference is that Michael Moore isn't championing a system that forces me to put money into his pocket in exchange for health care. Insurance lobbyists are. And anyone who can't see that is in serious need of psychiatric care (assuming they can afford it).
laboulbo,
The problem is that the genie has long since been let out of the bottle. It would be nice, ideal in fact, if we could have a system where medical service providers and patients could deal with each other on an even playing field. Unfortunately, that is no longer possible. The insurance industry perverts health care into a profit-making apparatus that benefits them more than the providers they pay. And this leaves government as the only entity with the power to regulate them.
This leaves us with a choice between those who would limit our access to care for their profit and cannot be voted out of their positions if they get too greedy ... and those who CAN be voted out of office if they do.
Ob/gyn -
'I'm a physician. Our system in this country is a total disaster. Insurance companies make billions, while everyone else gets screwed.'
'Everybody else gets screwed' ? Hardly.
When's the last time anyone here has seen a Doctor struggling to make a living, to make ends meet ? Not in this lifetime !
Let's face it. 'Health Care Professionals' earn far more than those of equal education and experience of any other profession. This is a major reason why health care is so expensive in this country.
Let's explore this a bit further, shall we ?
Let's begin near the bottom :
Here in NYS, LPN certification can be obtained by attending a 2 year vocational school. Average starting salary for LPN in New York, no experience : $28,000 - $36,000 annually.
Average starting salary for carpenter or mechanic graduating with same 2 year certificate from same Vocational School, no experience : $15,000 - $24,000 annually.
Here in NYS, RN licensure can be obtained by attending a 2-year community college. Average starting salary for an RN in New York, no experience : $32,000 - $50,000.
Average starting salary for those who graduate from the same community college, different degree : $ 18,000 - $32,000
Carrying this on through 4 year degrees, average starting salaries for health care professionals graduating with 4 year degrees ( Ultrasound technician, RN, ect. ), no experience : $48,000 - $80,000
Average starting salaries for those who graduate from the same 4-year college, different degree, no experience : $36,000 - $65,000
This goes on through the higher level degrees. Compare the salaries with a Doctor of Medicine, than that of a college professor, Doctorate : Not even comparable.
If the salaries of health care professionals were reined in to at least be comparable to those of other professions, health care costs would be reduced greatly.
'Everybody get's screwed' my butt !
The Real Cuban Free Healthcare system:
therealcuba.com/Page10.htm
This page shows THE TRUTH.
The hospital shown in the movie is reserved for Castros communist party, members of the military and foreigners for PROPAGANDA.
I've seen posts by military veterans in this forum. And bless you all. I'm a Vietnem vet myself and served my country in a war that was just as popular as the Iraq war is swiftly becoming. So be it. I fought because it was my duty to do so, not because I thought I'd win a popularity contest back home ... and every citizen is entitled to their opinion on that.
The problem with privatized health care is that it's becoming less and less popular with the status quo. Most uninsured people want universal health care. But a growing number of insured people are becoming so dissatisfied with their level of care that they're becoming believers, too. This is not to say that universal health care will come about anytime soon. But if I was a betting man, I'd bet that it will be eventually - if benefits keep going down and premiums keep going up. And, I think that trend will continue. It will become a grassroots cause that may make or break a number of elections - in the House, the Senate, and all the way up to the White House - just like the illegal immigration issue.
Point is, if universal health care does come about, it will come about as a direct reflection of the will of the voters. And if it comes about by vote, so be it. Most military veterans will tell you that THIS is why they fight ... to defend our right to make democratic decisions.
P.S. Back in colonial times, a popular anti-tax phrase was:
DON'T TAX ME AND DON'T TAX THEE. TAX THAT MAN BEHIND THE TREE.
We can see that mentality in our current state tax scenarios. In my state, whenever someone wants to fund some pork barrel project, the cigarette taxes go up. This is because smokers are in the minority. I suspect that, if health insurance benefits keep going down while premiums keep going up, champions of privatized health care will become a minority, too. It may not seem fair to cigarette smokers to tax them for pork barrel projects ... and it may not seem fair to tax one person to help cover the medical costs of another person. But like it or not, that's the way democracy works.
God bless democracy.
The severed finger reminds of a story here in Ontario a few years back. Two 'geniuses' decided to hold a lawnmower from the bottom and use it to cut a hedge. The lawnmower removed all eight fingers on both sides and they went to the hospital with a bag of 16 fingers. Of course, they has to sort them out, but eventually both mean (now smarter), had all of the digits put back on. No bill. No choosing which finger to keep or not keep.
I keep hearing these American nay-sayers telling people that Canada isn't perfect. Maybe not, but I have never waited for healthcare, nor paid for it. My Father has had a dozen heart attacks over the years and most recently a triple bypass and new heart valve. No charge.
As Canadians, we just don't live with the worry of 'will the hospital fix this?'. They just do. They have to. It's just normal here.
I cannot imagine going to a doctor and being refused something because I couldn't pay, or deciding to not have something fixed because it was too expensive.
We used to have unacceptable waiting periods for things here, but Canadians vote on health care. The wait times are O.K. for most things and seem to be constantly improving. Like I said, I have never waited at all.
As for higher taxes. Yes, I guess I do. But then I don't pay for health insurance, and my university loan was so low, I paid that off in my twenties. I look at it this way. You get what you pay for. I get top notch health care, low cost education and a country that spends very little on the military. I like that. If I didn't, I guess I would leave.
The whole world has issues with health care. Pointing out faults in any situation is extremely important including in this movie! I certainly dont think moore is a saint and I certainly dont think our health care is in descent shape either! Moore is an oppurtunist and a pusher of propaganda but once in a while he makes a good point like anyone does! For those of u on the left I say stop being such a whiney pussy about things and those of u on the right pull ur head out of ur ass and look around once in awhile!
My fiance is a newly minted doctor, completing her internship this summer. I have a masters in a technology field, and am also an author of technology books.
Our feeling is that the government of this country fails in its duty to manage capitalists, and has lost control of them. The American citizens here are having their country, rights, and their lives destroyed for short-term profit by the corporations that run amok here.
Our solution is that we are simply relocating to another country, and leaving this place to its fate.
I am sure a couple of illiterate latinos will replace us quickly enough, not to mention hundreds of thousands of H1-B immigrants who serve only to depress wages and thus discourage the next American generation away from medicine and technology fields. Its capitalists like Bill Gates and others like him that are only too happy to do this for their own simple-minded short-term profits. And the government is too gullible, paid-off, or both to see the resulting long-term disaster looming on the horizon.
But its a disaster we leave to you.
Many times the messenger is such a sensationalist his message gets lost in the rhetoric about him. Moore will get that play with his movie 'Sicko.' Except for the ending which added nothing to the movie but gratuitous drama, the rest of the movie raises serious issues about not only our healthcare system but our overall attitudes as a democratic country. We all know he presents us mostly half-truths or 'bad-apple' examples without showing much of the other side of the story. Nevertheless he presents most of the issues in a compelling way. Think of him as a story teller who is not required to tell the truth but only present the story in a way that we the viewers perceive the truth. What I object to is that he campaigns for systems like Canada, England, and France when it is unlikely we will ever adopt that type of healthcare system. We need ideas for solutions. The most recent, which should be aired and vetted was presented yesterday by www.healthcaresoundoff.com. I recommend that website for a serious discussion on realistic solutions, especially for the uninsured.
Steve,
I'm a former employee of 2 Blue Cross Blue Shield carriers, a claims analyst for eight years. And I'm a big believer in universal health care.
BUT ...
I'm also a political moderate and would not want to see us rush into a program but, rather, attack each part of the problem one at a time. The link you provided offers such a moderate viewpoint and I'm thankful that you mentioned it. I've bookmarked the site and will visit it often in the future. Thank you.
I think it's important to remember that UNIVERSAL doesn't necessarily mean BY GOVERNMENT ONLY ... though there are some who lump all believers in universal care into the pro-government arena. We hear a lot of people talk about Canada, the UK, and France ... but few talk about Australia, where medical care is paid through a partnership between government and private sector insurers. Their system is not perfect. No current system is. But they are at least making an effort to address health care in a rational and caring way while, at the same time, holding down health care costs to only one percent of their GDP (not bad).
Here is one idea I've toyed with for those who are employed but only marginally insured. Currently, IRS law allows people to contribute voluntarily to a FLEXIBLE SPENDING ACCOUNT ... a pre-tax contribution from wages that can be used for medical expenses not covered by insurance. I'd be willing to make that mandatory (much in the same was Social Security is) as long as such accounts were maintained by private banking institutions. Account holders could be issued a combination debit/credit card to be used solely for purchases of products or services from legitimate medical providers (determined by the provider's tax ID number).
Another idea to cut costs. One of the biggest health care dollar drains involves fraud ... not by patients, necessarily, but by service providers ... and primarily in an outpatient setting. When I was a claims analyst, part of my job was doing utilization reviews of physicians. But ultimately, this was only a feel-good job to make clients feel like we really cared about fraud. Unfortunately, private insurers do not share utilization review statistics between one another. This is because these statistics are considered company secrets - used by underwriters to determine premiums. By knowing a competitor's statistics, a company could use that knowledge to determine the competitor's expenses and undercut them. Unfortunately, not sharing them (as would occur in a single-payer system) allows physicians the freedom to OVERCODE claims. Here's one example.
One internist in Vancouver, Washington billed all her office visits with a billing code (aka CPT code) indicating the visit was 30 minutes long. I was a patient of this physician and my visits averaged between 10 and 15 minutes each - but were billed at the 30 minute rate. The problem? Using only billing statistics from one company would never show a pattern of fraud. However, if statistics from ALL insurance companies were scrutinized together, it would have surely shown this physician as billing more visits in a 24-hour period than there are hours in the day ... if you know what I mean.
This kind of overcoding fraud is rampant because physicians know they can get away with it as long as 50 - 100 different insurance companies keep their utilization review statistics separate. The solution? Continue to allow them to keep their statistics separate - as long as they are also shared with a 3rd party (government or private sector) that would combine the statistics using coding that would shield the identity of individual insurance carriers when published on a single list. In short, utilization review needs to be outsourced to a single entity that can be trusted to keep individual company statistics private.
P.S. There is a magazine out there called PHYSICIAN'S TRAVEL NEWS. It's purpose? To list all the seminars and symposiums on medical-related topics held all over the world. The problem? Some (hopefully, not all) physicians use this magazine as a means to provide themselves and their families with tax-free vacations to resorts. Example.
The magazine shows that there's a symposium on warts being held in the Bahamas sometime in June. The physician books himself for the symposium. His registration fee, his hotel room, his meals, etc., are all tax deductible. The physician hires his wife as a secretary - making her expenses tax deductible, too. But, when they show up at the symposium, they never ONCE attend a panel or speech. They just hang out on the beach where they hobnob with other physicians and their wives just hanging out on the beach. And guess who ultimately pays for these tax deductible vacations?
This type of fraud is impossible to police. Bills are scrutinized by the IRS but none of these events, to my knowledge, TAKES ATTENDANCE. And even if attendance was taken, a physician or spouse could walk through the panel room door to be counted ... then walk out a few minutes later to take a bathroom break (from which they never come back).
I don't have any insurance. I was denied insurance as I'd seen a psychiatric nurse practitioner who proscribed medications for some stress- related conditions I was experiencing at the time, these were my phobia of dental work[I'd been told all my teeth had to be extracted from my upper jaw] and my situation as a single parent of a 20 yr child diognosed with TBI[tramatic brain injury]. The explanation I recieved was that because I 'on medication' for these stress related issues, my claim was being denied.I do not want to even go into the horror of trying to procur services and treatment for my daughter over the past 10+ years. The reality of the truth is even more horrendous than any 'movie' could document. If you don't believe what your eyes see, your ears- hear, and when your heart, tells you, something is 'wrong'; than you are beyond any words that can be written here. It's a good thing I am not afraid to die nor do I fear death as much as I would fear, reliving the last 10 years of my life. It is the only sensible atitude to adopt when you understand that going to a doctor is impossible unless you have NO options.
your all idiots, especially the ones that are happy with the healthcare here...true dumbasses.
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