Exclusive interview: Cambodian film director Rithy Panh – “Angelina Jolie, come visit the Audiovisual Center Bophana!”

By Scott Rosenberg Dec 17, 2006, 8:05 GMT

Cambodian film director Rithay Panh (c) Scott Rosenberg

A dream project of renowned Cambodian film director Rithy Panh (‘S-21, la machine de mort Khmère rouge,’ ‘Terre des âmes errantes’) the Audiovisual Center Bophana was opened on December 4, 2006 in Phnom Penh Cambodia.

Partnering with the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Cambodian Ministry of Culture and Fine Arts, the National Audiovisual Institute, the Thomson Foundation for the Cinematic and Television Heritage, The International Francophonie Organization, The French Ministry of Culture and Communication; The National Center for the Cinema and UNESCO, the Center not only collects images and sounds of the Cambodian memory and makes them available to a wide public, but also trains Cambodians in the audiovisual professions by welcoming foreign film productions and its own artistic projects.

M & C movie editor Scott Rosenberg (SR) was fortunate enough to attend the inauguration of the Center and spend time with director Panh.

Following is our interview with Rithy Panh (RP).

RP: I’ve been working on this project for over 10 years. At the time I saw reels of the 35 mm prints at the Office of the Cinema. You know when the Khmer Rouge collapsed the people came back to the cities - they came to Phnom Penh – they collected the rolls (of film) from the streets, especially Mr. Iau Pannakar – he is a great man for me, a role model for me.

SR: He is the cinematographer for HM the King Father Norodom Sihanouk?

RP: Yes, that is correct. Mr. Pannakar said if we don’t rescue these reels maybe in 5 or 7 years they will disintegrate and be lost forever.

And I said, “Ok, we will work on that.” But it was a very big job – we had no means – no money to do that. When the project started it was very difficult to talk about memory when the people were hungry or had economic problems.  But now it’s better for us to start to restore something – to collect all images that were abroad and also in Cambodia.

So we started to work with the Cinema Office to restore their prints first.

It is symbolic for us – because the Khmer Rouge did not only kill people but they also destroyed identity and memory. To work on audiovisual memories at the Center is very symbolic for me.

The Center is not only about the Khmer Rouge – you know that memory is very painful for us only four years in our history but they destroyed everything. Now-a-days our country is a young people country 70 percent of them are under 25 yrs and under they have no reference about their past.  I think images and sound can provide them some reference point to their identity – their history.

SR: I spoke about two years ago at a panel on the Cambodian Film industry at Pannestra University. The young people (in the audience) had no sense, from what I could tell, of the importance of Khmer history, culture and the arts.  How does the Center instill this sense of history, culture and arts in young people? They still have to learn that there is more than the Pol Pot years – thousands of years of Cambodian history and arts.  How do you instill that in them?

RP: Yes, exactly. By going to meet them first – and have them love images and love their history. It is very simple – it is complicated but yet so simple.

But we will do it. We will give them the possibility to access their memory.  They don’t know what happened.  If you don’t give them access to their memory they don’t know who they are.

And even for the archivists that work here – it is the first time they get to know even what an archive really is –what the word means.  You know for many people archives means something that is very dusty – but for me archives are alive.  I want them to watch, to work to analyze. Not only watching but this Archive is something like pedagogic support.  I want them to learn and create. But if you don’t have history, if you don’t know what happened, you can not create.

SR: The Center here will also act not only as an archives but as a training Center, isn’t that correct?

RP: Yes, a training center. You know the Cambodian market is very small – Vietnam is 70 million people, Thailand, big market – many people. We are a small country but we have to propose to others a service – to use our intelligence.

If you have good professionals and equipment and technology and have a well run archives we can provide to other countries around us our services.

SR: The Thomson Foundation is working with the Center to help develop a demonstrative type of project – a project that can be replicated in other countries. Do you see it as such as well?

RP: I think it is a good thing for Cambodia but we don’t want to give reasons (for our success) to other countries.  But I do propose to others to come and see what we are doing.  If someone in Africa or in Lao or Thailand want to build something like our Center, come to visit with us, work with us one or three months and then go back to your country and write a proposal – on what you want and when you know what you want – we can advise you.

But we will not go to Laos (for example) and say “This is what you must do...” It is very colonialistic, you know. I don’t want to do that. I want to cooperate and share knowledge.

Come here, see what we are doing, how we are doing it and how we use the archives for education and when you know what you want, we can work together.

SR: Will you remain working with the Center – involved with the Center on a daily basis?

RP: Now I make a choice – all the people working here are (around) 25-26 years old.

SR: So you are too old? (Rith is 42 years old)

RP: (laughs) Yeah! We are here just to give them advice, but this Center belongs to them. We are just like a bridge.  Because there was war – genocide before.  Everything was broken. Now they are here and we act only as a bridge (to those times).

I keep asking myself, how do you get over – move on from the Khmer Rouge days? Who will bridge the time period before this period of genocide?

That is why I said the Center is not just for the genocide. You can see in our data base the “Premiere Lumiere Prince” - it is 1895 – 97 five years after cinematography was born and we got it.

It is very difficult to talk about history when you are not being treated humanely.  But when you are given opportunity and space to talk – to share, what comes out – If you keep this all inside you can not live. The Center will offer this opportunity not just on genocide but on all Cambodian history and culture/arts.

When I talked about being a “bridge” - I want people like Mr. Pannakar to meet young people – he can talk about the 50’s the 60’s – they can learn. 

Mr. Iau Pannakar (left) & Mr. Rithy Panh - Inauguration Audiovisual Center Bophana, December 4, 2006 Phnom Penh, Cambodia © Scott Rosenberg, M&C

When you know your history you are proud, you don’t have to look (down) at your shoes.  You can look up and see the future (and feel better about yourself). If they do not look up they will continue to feel guilty about the Khmer Rouge.

SR: Is there a history of film in Cambodia? Has anyone written a history of film?

Very small things. That’s why the Center proposes to researchers from here or outside to set up a residence program. We have to do it now – because our directors, like Monsieur Pannakar – I hope he lives a very long time but the truth is we are all getting older.

This is the last testimony for us. I don’t want this opportunity to be missed.  I want him to talk with young people.

SR: What about the film industry in Cambodia now?  You certainly are the most prominent Cambodian director, you have won many awards for your films. Many people know of you and your work. Members of the press that I spoke with have the highest respect for you and they send their regards.

RP: (laughs) Highest respect for me?  Why?

SR: Because your films present a very realistic image of Cambodia.

RP: Please tell them don’t worry - I spend a lot of my money here. I have no money, no house. I am living in a hotel. I spent my money on this Center.  If I want to be like other people I could have had a big car.  But I invested personally in the Center. I earn nothing from here.

Don’t forget, huh…., I am a survivor from the Khmer Rouge. I have a duty. Why am I alive and not someone else?  So I do not need money (it is not important to me).  I need money to eat, to buy clothes but not for a big car. I need these young people to discover their history.

SR: But in terms of the industry itself….

RP: Industry, now there is no industry here. There are people that make business yes, they make (drama) plays and ghost films and VDO but there is no professional industry for cinema here. But I love them, they keep alive those that work like technicians, hair dressers and costumers.  However, we need to take the next step and become more professional – we can not do that without training.

That is why I said at the Center here we (want to) train directors, producers, sound engineers.

SR: And who will you use as teachers?

RP: We will use everybody – as long as they really want to help us, friendly, sincerely – not come to make money here.

You know the young people here, like Joseph who comes from a big school for engineers in France.  If he worked in France he could earn thousands of Dollars. He works here for only $500, just enough to eat and have a small studio room to live in – because young people feel they have something to share with one another.

SR: One thing that bothers me a bit about Cambodia is that it is always foreigners giving to Cambodia. It is the same in Thailand – there is a patronage like mentality.

RP: Do you know why? Thailand  and Cambodia are not the same story. Thailand had no genocide – no war like Cambodia.  For us there are big difficulties because our engineers, our film directors (our professional people) have all died – executed by the Khmer Rouge.

We need support now. You know for the film industry it is not only me now – it is the duty of everybody even for the government to develop step by step.  But you can develop the film industry when you have people that can work at the professional level.

The next film that I shoot here, I am taking one person from abroad and one Cambodian to work together.  Like at the Center here we have one foreign engineer work with a Cambodian engineer and maybe one day, the Cambodian engineer can certainly work by himself.

SR: So there is like a transfer of technology /knowledge that goes on?

RP: Yes, exactly –we do that, we do that here.

SR: What is your next project?

My next project – I want to shoot a film here – provide an office to welcome people to shoot films here – from the time they walk off the plane, we take care of them until the end of their shoot.

SR: Sort of like a one-stop-shop film office?

RP: Yeah exactly.  Because we have beautiful things here. We have mountains, rivers, rice fields, many, many things.  We want to propose to people that we can arrange everything for them – from hotel accommodations to technicians.

SR: Are you familiar with AFCI – the Association of Film Commissioners International – all, well nearly all the offices that promote filming in their unique territories around the world?  They have the know how to help build up a film office. I could possibly introduce you.

RP: Yes, yes, please do so. We are now just starting. We have one guy here that is working on cataloging what we have here now in terms of locations.  We will eventually list it on a web site.

I am now discussing with an Agency for a loan for some equipment. I want to buy some equipment – if we have equipment and technicians, I think they will come.

SR: Will the Government allow you to set up that one-stop-shop? Wouldn’t they want some of the fees?

RP: No, no – they understand the project. The first thing – it takes time to explain to everyone, not just the Government.  If the Center works well, it will bring money to the country and everyone will earn money.

SR: But in Thailand for example they have a film office – funded very poorly. They are not able to market the country correctly to film professionals. They have a fragmented authority over the film industry.  Do you think the same thing will happen here once the Government sees what a “cash cow” foreign location shoots can be?

RP: This can draw good images of the country much more than money. If you have a good image of the country, people will come, not only for cinematography but tourists and for everything (business) will come.

SR: So the image of Pol Pot and sex tourism will not dominate…

RP: Yes, exactly. We are not a state agency, I don’t know exactly the structure in the future but I expect in seven years to be able to turn over everything to the young people. I leave it to them and then retire and concentrate on my films.

SR: When you have people like Angelina Jolie come into the country, have you been able to capitalize on that – their interest in the country and helping the country?

RP: No, I would like to meet her.  I would like her to come and see the Center.  She is a big star, many people around her.

SR: But in your own right, you are a big star as well.

RP: (laughs) – No I am not! I know that she is very interested in environmental problems. I think that we can do something together with her

Please tell her to come here and have a look.

SR: Thanks for taking time to talk with us Rithy.

RP: You are very welcome. Thank you for learning more about the Audiovisual Center Bophana. Please tell everyone to come visit us here.

Copyright 2006 by Monsters and Critics