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Oct 24, 2006, 13:56 GMT
Danish court confirms ban on Sikh carrying ceremonial knife
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Older Talkback
whey he bring it with him. in the frist place?
Here is your answer http://www.sikhism.com/books/teachingtheyouth/whycarryadagger.htm
May God help you see others viewpoint.
Read the article on the link that Mandeep Singh recommended and I wish that the goverment would understand why Siks wear the dagger... to me it is perfectly acceptable and I can only speak for myself. God Speed my siik friends... may one god bless all.
The fact remains that if allowed, they would be able to do what no one else in the country could (with good reason) because of their religion. They would have an right not extended to people of other faiths or no faith because of their religion. It's that simple and if allowed, that frightening.
Sikhs, who number in the millions, all over the world carry the kirpan. I have never heard of one committing a crime with one. This is a VERYimportant part of the religion.
There actually have been crimes committed with a kirpan (one just recently in Canada) but that's not the point. They are given a special right because of their religion. This is not a Danish rule about not chewing gum in public, it's about carrying a knife. No matter what other word you use to name it, it's still a knife. I'm sorry but my right to be safe in my country trumps your right to carry a knife. Once again it's that simple....or of course, everyone gets to carry a knife.
It is important to note. A kirpan is not a knife but a article of faith. A baseball bat is a bat but can be used as a weapon. There are numerous school supplies that can be used as weapons. Yes there was a recent case in Canada with regarding usage of weapons on a home invasion. These were not Kirpans but swords. Yes, even the media makes mistakes.WoW image that. BTW Baseball bats were also used.
It is true with the 1 million plus batized sikhs out of 20 million sikhs in the world. No baptied sikh has ever been documented using the kirpan as a weapon. Sikhs have way too much respect for there there responiblies to the community.
I also find it interested that weapons can be carried when hunting or as a peace offier in Denmark. But a non-weapon cannot as a article of faith.
This arguement is not about kirpan but can Denmark accept Sikhs as a whole as Danish. The court judgement clearly say, sikhs are welcome but need to change there religion practice. I believe that is the wrong judgement.
Regards
If I remember correctly the kirpan can be any length, even as long as a sword. There is not even any consensus in the Kikh community about how long it should be so many it was a kirpan, just a long one. And the bat arguement holds no water, anything can be used as a weapon but does that mean we should just throw up our hands and give everyone guns, not try to keep them off the street? Of course not. But once again, that's not the point. The point is that because of their religion they have a right that I do not have..I'll repeat, a right that I do not have..how can that be fair to anyone. So anybody can move to any country and expect that they will never have to modify any behavior, even religious? Come on. The real quesions is whether baptized Sikhs will meet the Danish government half way and realize they must make sacrifices or will they continue to demand that they be given special rights to disregard a law which safeguards all Danish?
I'm amazed that so many people do really understand and its perfectly Ok if it doesn't make any sense to few.
Let me use my brain cells to it full capablity, hope I can explain something.
First and foremost, this is a religion where we all followers are students who are here learn. Obviously, one who wants to learn needs a teacher. Most importantly to learn something you need faith in your teacher. So our teacher Sahib Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, advised us a particular life style, to cleanse our heart and spread message of equality to all humanity.
The unique identity makes us very visible in public and otherwise. Personally it creates a hugh sense of responsibility, to be careful with whatever your are doing. So whatever a Sikh do, a business person, a lawyer, a engineer, a worker or anything, he/she has to hold human values first.
The term that guru gobind singh Ji gave us is SAINT-SOLDIER
All sikhs are expected to act and think like a Saint. Besides being Saint he/she can't be coward to not being able to protect himself/herself or somebody else. Thats called perfect mind body co-ordination.
Now aboiut the symbol Kirpan. The Kirpan is one of the gift from Guru Gobind Singh Ji to all Khalsa Sikhs. It is not to be judged and measured as a weapon of war or peace, it is a gift activated by the love of the Guru. Even if you have a whole army of bodyguards even then it doesn't make it redundant. It shall always remain attached to a Sikh. The kirpan is the love wherein the Guru resides.
Moreover Sikh's don't carry it, they WEAR it. Like we don't carry clothes, we wear them.
In the end, it's about belief. And usually we don't argue about it. But outside India sometimes we have to answer these questions.
Better resources are here:
http://www.mrsikhnet.com
http://www.sikhnet.com
A response to some of the previous posts...
Kuccio wrote: 'The fact remains that if allowed, they would be able to do what no one else in the country could (with good reason) because of their religion. They would have an right not extended to people of other faiths or no faith '
You obviously did not read the article very well...I suggest you reread the article in particular the second paragraph....for the sake of argument lets assume the kirpan is a knife. If you say you need to carry the knife because of your religion it is forbidden. But if you say you need it to hunt or fish or for recreational activities it is okay!
If that is not a double standard then I do not know what is.
Here is the second paragraph !
The Eastern High Court said that although Indian national Ripudaman Singh wore the blunt knife as a 'religious symbol,' it was still a violation of a ban on bearing weapons, including knives, except for carrying out a trade, hunting, fishing or other recreational activities.
I understand that there are historical reasons for the kirpan. Yet nobody addresses the issue of why it's OK to give some people special rights because of their religion. If someone could answer that question, I'd be a lot more apt to agree with previous postings that it's not an issue
Shouldnt people be able to practise their religion without any obstacles? So many babtised Sikhs died for Europe. No one complained then. They were treated as hereos.
http://www.asht.info/Sikhs+&+British+Empire
'...Over 138,000 Sikh soldiers fought in Belgium and France during World War I...'
http://www.sikhspectrum.com/122002/soldiers_ww.htm
Please read the link, and it may educate people about sikhism. Also the fact remains no one has had problem with sikhs since 9/11, bu tnow ppl are confusing Sikhs as Muslims. Trust me if the muslims ever went to war in your country the Sikhs would the first one to protect you.
The west are scared of 'Jihad', the truth is the the 1st Jihad was against the Sikhs.
http://www.searchsikhism.com/martyrs.html
What you're saying by 'without any obstacles' is that you are not subject to the same laws as everybody else. You want special treatment because of what you believe. The question here isn't whether you are good people. I'm sure you are. The question is if your religion requires you to go against the principles or (reasonable) laws of any country, especially ones that are there for safety, your religion loses...it's that simple. In this case, it's freedom FROM your religion I need. I'm sure it is very hard for you and that is a shame, but countries have laws for a reason and as soon as you start exempting some people you have to exempt more and more and then laws are meaningless.
A country's laws are made by humans, just like you and me, and they are supposed to protect all the citizens of the country from hatred, bigotry, malice etc. I don't see how this judgement, passed by (admittedly a lower court) serves to promote this purpose by denying someone the legitimate right to follow their faith.
Kuccio, if other Danes weren't allowed to carry knives for 'RECREATIONAL!!!!' purposes, you'd have a leg to stand on. If I'm ever in Denmark, I'll tell them that I also use it to prepare food, maybe that will deem it 'recreational' enough for them to let me carry it.
You don't need protection from our religion, you can see in our whole history, Sikhs have never agressed towards anyone. Further, Sikhs have stood up for and given the supreme sacrifice again and again for the rights of others to practice their religion freely. Believe me, there are thousands more armed cops and army personnel in the world that follow much lower moral standards than the Sikhs who honor the kirpan.
For instance I was walking on the streets of DC with my kirpan out and was harrassed by FOUR cops with GUNS simply because I didn't know about the law in that part of the country. One cop had the sensibility to understand that where I come from (New Mexico) we still have cowboys who wear guns on their belts at the grocery store, and that it's very normal for everybody to carry some kind of blade.
so all i have to do is claim to be a sikh and i get to gallavant around all over the place armed? oooOOOOOOooooo better yet, I'll start my own religion and give myself a shotgun when i get baptised, with the ACLU on my side i'll be unstoppable.
not very helpful kracker.
this is a long established religion, not some freak cult.
i cant beleive some sort of comprimise cant be established in this issue
'WHAA CANT WE OWL JUST GEET ALOWNGG!!'
you Idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The kirpan is blunt. If you ban that then you might as well ban scissors, pencils, baseball bats, balls, kitchen knives and computer chords. Every thing is a weapon including you fists!!!!!! There has never been a recorded assault using a kirpan ever. There was a recent home invasion in Canada. the robbers used swords and baseball bats. The Kirpan was taken a way from them. Why are you all afraid of different cultures!!!! Why can't you accept immigrants into society!!! In Canada the Supreme court has allowed Kirpans to be worn under clothing and sewn into a sheath. It is not a weapon. And why is everybody afraid of muslims. They are not terrorists.
I fail to see how a ceremonial, blunt knife sewn into a sheath constitutes a 'Weapon.'
I'd say anyone suffering from aichmophobia or hoplophobia should get some therapy. You're sick. Really.
And a well-intentioned, law-abiding man who declared his religious symbol at security is now a 'criminal.'
What a pathetic bunch of contemptible, panty-wetting bigots.
I hesitate to think what would happen if I took out my 10 cm pocket knife. A SWAT team and a charge of terrorism?
And to think their ancestors used to be Vikings. Kings Harald or Olaf would slay them in shame.
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