PS3 News
By Stevie Smith Jan 3, 2008, 8:37 GMT
Konami officially quashes 'MGS4 on Xbox 360' claim
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Older Talkback
Honestly, I thought it would have been cool to have Metal Gear Solid 4 on the 360 so I don't have to buy a PS3. I've played the game on the PS3 and it is an amazing game! So, I really don't care which system wins in the sales. I just thought it would be cool for the game to be on the 360 just like getting the chance to play Soul Calibur IV and Devil May Cry IV. And everything else that has a sequel to the number 4.
Who eveer thought that MGS4 was gonna be for 360 anyways? I just think its laughable how fanboys do this sort of thing. Spend more time playing the game than arguing over it on the internet.
The amount of time wasted arguing could be worked for to get a PS3.
Why get a 360 when a new console is just gonna replace it all too soon.
Hehehe its been three months since MGS4 too, and?
Yeah thats right, in your face 360 fanboys.
It has been proven on Konami's own site and from Kojima's own words that it wont come for 360
can i solve this crisis once and for all?
just rent the game & console
at first am a fan of xbox 360 and i know that mgs 4 is no way to come for 360 becuz the game is 50 gb size and cannot be kept in a dual layer cd but metal gear solid 4 doesnt mean the end of the world no 1. xbox have its excusives 2like gears of war...halo 3 ... the lost odessey i know these are not comparable with metal gear 4 and the other thing lets talk aout the performance xbox360 got the xbox gpu has more processor than ps3 in addition
i know that mgs 4 is no way to come for 360 becuz the game is 50 gb size and cannot be kept in a dual layer cd but metal gear solid 4 doesnt mean the end of the world no 1. xbox have its excusives 2like gears of war...halo 3 ... the lost odessey i know these are not comparable with metal gear 4 and the other thing lets talk aout the performance xbox360 got the xbox gpu has more processor than ps3 in addition its innovated features contribute to overall rendering performance. the xbox 360 has 278 of memory bandwidth The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth.
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.
The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.
The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.
Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.
Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.
Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.
Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.
Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.
Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.
Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.
The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.
If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.
For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.
Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 500 = 80 GOps per second.The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.
The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.
The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.
HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.
CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.
However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.
AT LAST ITS NOT ABOUT MGS 4 AM A GAME DEVELOPER AND GO AND CHECK ABOUT WHAT I SAID ULL SEE ITS ALL TRUTH SO TO ALL PS3 FANS TELL ME WAT U THINK AND FOR PPL WHO JUST SAY XBOX 360 IS CRAP MGS=PS3 ONLY PLZZZZZ U DONT KNOW ANY SHIT ABOUT THE SYSTEMS PS3 FANS I THINK THATS PRETTY ENOUGH TO KEEP UR MOUTHS SHUT FOR UR WHOLE LIFE ...
Its no surprise if they did port mgs4 to xbox360. Mgs2 was suppose to be PS2 exclusive by somehow managed its way into the xbox version as MG2:Substance . I don't care what fanboys think, Konami dumped so much money into creating it; that a xbox360 version would cost half of what it did for the PS3 because all cutscenes would be made already plus they could easily gain 50+ million dollars in sales for the 360 version. Then again I would not promise it would ever come out soon.
^^ Iv seen that same bullshit posted on xbox loyalist sites before, nothing more than twisted numbers and facts copyed from site to site. The Ps3 and xbox do the same thing in two VASTLY different ways and trying to compare them together is bullshit. The xbox people use their system as the standard and say Ps3 is missing this, this and that and isnt powerful. You will get mirrored results when you use the Ps3 as the standard, it will show that the xbox is slow and is missing this, this and that. The xbox is a good system, so is the Ps3, but the Ps3 is leaps and bounds ahead of the xbox in terms of what it does and can do as far as gaming and multimedia. microsoft uses shady tactics, marketing and disinformation including hiring people to bash other systems and promote there own system instead of fixing the ******* problems with the xbox. End the end it comes down to personal choice, and people are starting to see the differences between the two and Ps3 sales are increasing.
Its kinda annoying, I don't want to buy a PS3 just to play the game. But both MGS 2 and MGS 3 have been on the Xbox. Its similar to the FF series, only some games were released to the Xbox and 360.
You dont have to buy a ps3 just for mgs4!!! you can rent a ps3 out.
there, that solves everything!!! RENT a ps3!
this is total bullspit most people were lucky enough to get either the Xbox 360 or the Ps3. Sorry we are not all Millionaire's who can afford this system or that system when our favorite game comes out so why no do us your loyal fanbase a favor and release it on 360 im absolutely positive it wont hurt you pocketbooks it may even help
Just to clear things up
1) Final fantasy will be on the 360, microsoft as of last year now part owned square enix
2) Real gamers play PC
3) My new phrase for people who refer to ever one as a 'fanboy' is fanfag, so fanfags stfu, no one cares whether your system is better, if you have fun, then its good for you, that's all console games are about. You all need to dig out so classic consoles and games and remind yourself why console games were created, FOR FUN. I can honestly say that the wii is the only console i consider at the moment that holds its own against a pc and i own all 3, this is simply because its the only console not trying to market itself as a gimped media pc.
Sniperwolf101> I don't ever remember MGS3 getting released on the original XBOX. The only Metal Gear Solid games that I remember getting released on other consoles was MGS2 Substance for the XBOX and Twin Snakes which was for the Gamecube.
MGS3 and its rerelese/s, there are 3 different versions (the original, subsistence, and the 30 dollar boxset version), were exclusive to the PS2. None of the MGS3s ever went to the xbox. And twin snakes was a remake of the original MGS1 just for the gamecube not a port.
As you said... *yawn*
h ttp://ww w.t3.com/news/konami-is-?=36971 (take the spaces out, apparently linking to a relevant article is spam)
So predictable. Any idiot should've seen this coming a mile off. Sure, there are obstacles to overcome, but they're hardly 'quashing rumours' any more, eh?
@ Sniperwolf101
Only MGS 2 was ported to the original Xbox and it received negative reviews upon doing so. Therefore Konami decided never to do so again.
no u xbox fanboys r dumb ass shit if mgs4 goes to xbox then halo will go to the ps3 see it wont happen so stfu u gay fanboys
I admit its A shame that mgs4 hasnt come out for the 360 and i guess ill have to get a ps3 LOL, but i see and understand why they havent soo all good really. mgs is a legend game 4 = the end
The argument of MGS4 could make more money if it was also released on the xbox2 is worthless. MGS4 has already sold 4.7 million copys, halo3 has sold 8 million, but MGS4 is still selling. now its kinda like saying 'halo3 would make more money on the PS3.'
Metal Gears 4 coming to the Xbox 360?Who knows.Already Sony have lost some of their biggest titles to the Xbox,Resident evil 5,Final Fantasy 13,Tekken.Will microsoft win and bag another title from Sony or will the denials reach up to 1 million.Metal Gear Solid 4,'another to bite the dust'?
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